86 PU - electrical prob. wont crank

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65FJ45

65FJ45

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Threads
237
Messages
680
Location
S.CA - N.OC - Fullerton
started fine - drove it - parked for 20 min - came back and nothing - i don't think the starter even clicked - idiot lights dim when try - come weird clicking/buzzing sounds from the firewall area - batteries are fine - it was totally reliable - someone suggested an internal short in the starter - i'm hoping it's something a little simpler and cheaper! - i was able to push start it and drive home - had no idiot lights at all at some points, dim or strong - trying to crank dims them and gets the clicking noise - i'm a total novice with electrical - it's a 2.4 diesel - it's a loaner and i got no transpo on holiday - in Vancouver BC area - anyone ?
 
Set the brake, put it in neutral and jump 12V+ to the small wire terminal on the starter, if it cranks over then the starter is fine, and you have an issue in the wiring... If nothing happens, then it's time to take the starter apart at least...
 
2ndGenToyotaFan said:
Set the brake, put it in neutral and jump 12V+ to the small wire terminal on the starter, if it cranks over then the starter is fine, and you have an issue in the wiring... If nothing happens, then it's time to take the starter apart at least...
Click to expand...


when key is in the on position there is a buzzing sound under the dash and the idiot lights are dim

12v to the small wire seemed like a short - (pretty sure i got the right wire - it had a connector and it was heading toward where the big wire goes in the starter) it sparked like a direct short (sadly)

what's confusing me is the buzzing under the dash which is with the key in the on position but not in the crank position - there should be no power to the sylenoid until you crank - right?

i don't have the tools to pull the starter and it doesn't look fun -
 
If you have a multimeter, check for continuity between the small terminal and the body of the starter... if there is, then that will confirm the short...

Also, you may need a second set of hands, but check that the small wire at the starter is getting 12 volts.

As for the buzz, is your fan on? (Start simple... :D)
 
2ndGenToyotaFan said:
If you have a multimeter, check for continuity between the small terminal and the body of the starter... if there is, then that will confirm the short...

Also, you may need a second set of hands, but check that the small wire at the starter is getting 12 volts.

As for the buzz, is your fan on? (Start simple... :D)
Click to expand...


the buzz is the glow plug relay - it's a 2-tone buzz when the key is in the on position - that's when the small wire at the starter is disconnected...... so are there 2 problems now?? :censor:
 
2ndGenToyotaFan said:
If you have a multimeter, check for continuity between the small terminal and the body of the starter... if there is, then that will confirm the short...

Also, you may need a second set of hands, but check that the small wire at the starter is getting 12 volts.

As for the buzz, is your fan on? (Start simple... :D)
Click to expand...


the buzz is the glow plug relay - it's a 2-tone buzz when the key is in the on position - that's when the small wire at the starter is disconnected...... so are there 2 problems now?? :censor:
 
Senior 2ndgen:

Thanks for the heads up....

Once it's warm from running, try unplugging the glow plug relay (the one that's buzzing). Then try starting it.

I'm not entirely familiar with the north american spec diesels, but it sounds to me like the glow plug system is shorting somehow, which means it doesn't have the juice to crank the starter.

You can also try just unplugging it and cranking. If the starter spins the motor, it MAY start (depends on how cold it is, and how tight the engine is). Either way, if unplugging the glow plug relay lets the starter turn, then I think you've found the problem (glow plug system). Then the question is whether it's a glow plug, the GP relay, or the wiring.

Dan
 
DanS HJ-45 said:
Senior 2ndgen:

Thanks for the heads up....

Once it's warm from running, try unplugging the glow plug relay (the one that's buzzing). Then try starting it.

I'm not entirely familiar with the north american spec diesels, but it sounds to me like the glow plug system is shorting somehow, which means it doesn't have the juice to crank the starter.

You can also try just unplugging it and cranking. If the starter spins the motor, it MAY start (depends on how cold it is, and how tight the engine is). Either way, if unplugging the glow plug relay lets the starter turn, then I think you've found the problem (glow plug system). Then the question is whether it's a glow plug, the GP relay, or the wiring.

Dan
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makes sense.... i'll give that a try in the morning.... thx!
 
UPDATE: it looks like there are 2 different relays for the glow plug system and both were buzzing ...... 28610-54080 and 28680-54090 ..... the first one has one 2-lead plug and 2 cables..... the second has two 2-lead plugs

i disconnected the 54090 (2 plugs) first and the with the key on the + battery terminal started smoking and 54080 was making noise

i disconnected both and left the 2 cables not touching and no noise but still no crank..... all i heard was a tiny click which sounded like a small sylenoid like a turn signal blinker size

any theories of what is going on here? what a:censor: mess...... i still need to try 12v to the small starter wire again with all this disconnected

do you think it will push-start with no glow plugs in 32F temps and some either with a slight downhill?

Thanx for all the input.... this is very :bang:
 
Definitely try jumping the starter with both glow plug relays disconnected.

But off hand, I'm guessing that the second GP relay (the one that was still plugged in) has a short (or the wiring associated with it does.). This would be way easier if I could look at an FSM for this truck...

Yes, you can push start successfully at 32F. Put the truck in 4wheel-low range though. Low range to spin the engine faster, 4 wheel because 2 will just lock up from the engines compression. It is doable, but much harder than push starting a gas vehicle. We had to tow mine around the parking garage a few times before it worked.

Dan
 
DanS HJ-45 said:
Definitely try jumping the starter with both glow plug relays disconnected.

But off hand, I'm guessing that the second GP relay (the one that was still plugged in) has a short (or the wiring associated with it does.). This would be way easier if I could look at an FSM for this truck...

Yes, you can push start successfully at 32F. Put the truck in 4wheel-low range though. Low range to spin the engine faster, 4 wheel because 2 will just lock up from the engines compression. It is doable, but much harder than push starting a gas vehicle. We had to tow mine around the parking garage a few times before it worked.

Dan
Click to expand...


Thanks Dan, this time i bridged it I heard the sylenoid click but the starter wont turn.

my 2 choices are to 1) try to get it started, see if when it warms up i can bang on the starter and free it or 2) just pull the starter and try to fix it or get it rebuilt....

i'm not sure how the glow plug relays got involved in all this....
 
65FJ45 said:
i'm not sure how the glow plug relays got involved in all this....
Click to expand...
When the voltage to the actuating coil of a relay gets too low, the relay will release. If the load that was just switched off is large enough the voltage will jump up again and the relay will actuate again, lather, rinse, repeat... Of course letting a relay stay in that condition of flipping on and off fast will rapidly burn up it's contacts and make a buzzing sound.
 
Recently ran into the same problem with my truck. I have an '86 22re, so your's may be different...but, here's a few things you can try...assuming the battery is good:

1. make sure the cables are FIRMLY attached to the terminals
2. check the fuse block under the hood and the fuse panel in the cab for starter / ignition
3. check the main power wire from the fuse block to the battery
4. check the starter motor / solenoid with a multimeter
5. check the starter relay (mine is on the passenger side wheel well...small brass-colored box with a plug coming out of it)
6. check wiring in the tumbler / tumbler itself

IF all else fails (or you get tired of trying crap), do what I did: go to the parts store and get a $10 engine-start push button, a roll of 10g wire, and run wire from the battery----switch (fuse this line) and from the switch to main power to the starter solenoid from the relay (via splice / solder...i believe the wire is the white-black one...again, yours may be different). This will bypass literally EVERYTHING, sending power directly from the battery to the starter solenoid...therefore, if it doesn't ever not work again, there's only 4 viable problems: battery, wire, push-button, solenoid / starter. Simple :)

Glow plug functions are all accounted for by turning on the ignition, truck won't actually 'start' without the ignition being on...it will just simply provide an uninterrupted 12v to the starter.

Good luck!
 
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I cleaned all the wires going into the battery terminals and it worked. Yea I feel dumb. It's the old lesson when you assume you make an ass our of u and me! Much thanks for the gracious help and apology for wasting people's time on such a dumb problem.
 
i'll tell you one thing the internet is amazing for some things..... i think a lot of cars that would end rotting somewhere get fixed because people get help from kind people giving great advice on the internet..... it's also moral support - you feel not so alone with your problems....
 
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