84 Desmogged overheating and losing compression

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Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Threads
3
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17
Location
Canton, GA
My cruiser was overheating the other day...radiator boiling over after about 20 minutes of driving...also losing compression. I am thinking head gasket, but the PO desmogged the vehicle and I am not sure what is turning the water pump. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
 
You're not sure what is turning the water pump ? Can't you just open the hood and look?

How do you know you're losing compression? You did a compression test or it just feels like it ?

Bubbles in the coolant? Coolant smells like exhaust HCs ?

Sorry, no offense, but with a horribly vague post like this and reading your tag line I can't help but laugh!
 
This is my first toyota...VWs are air cooled. There is no belt going to smog pump...PO desmogged so not having a reference to go from I am looking for advice. No compression test or leakdown test have been done, just feels weak whereas before not so much. As for bubbles in the coolant...s*** yeah...it was bubbling all over the place when it boiled over! (Not sure) and I am ignorant, not stupid although I have bred...
 
ok....de-smog should not affect water temp, and shouldn't cause loss of power. Compression refers to the amount of pressure the cylinders can make and is an indicator of valve and ring condition and isn't something that is gained or lost without some major work. these are alot different than an air cooled engine, but only in the fact that this thing also has a watering system, which is a closed loop, pressurized, thermostatically controlled cooling system. there's a water pump on the front of the block being driven by a belt or a pair of belts. it circulates water thru the engine in a loop till the water gets to 180 or 190 and then the stat opens and allows the hot water to leave the block and go to the radiator thru the upper hose. basically, the water gets hot, stat opens, new water comes in from bottom hose to water pump and into block, stat closes, water in block circulates, water in radiator cools down, stat opens, loop happens again. there has to be a time where the hot water can sit in the radiator and be cooled by the engine fan(fan clutch, we'll get to that later). If the water can't sit in the block and cool, you get into a nasty heating cycle that only stops its climb when you lay off the gas and are able to just cruise and not create the extra heat load. water can bypass the thermostat and cause the runaway if the stat is bad, the o ring on the top of the stat is bad or missing, the gasket below the stat is bad, or the heater hoses are bypassed incorrectly. If the fan clutch between the water pump and fan is bad, the fan won't spin with the gusto it needs to keep up with the engines heat generation. it is an oil filled affair that locks up upon a temperature rise, provided the oil is still viscous. Now, another thing that can cause over heating that is cooling related are the conditions of the heater cores, the radiator core the radiator cap and the water pump itself. if the pump is bad, or any of the cores are blocked- even partially, water won't flo thru the motor except thru thermal convection which will cause engine hot spots and subsequent overtemps. if the cap is bad, or the cores have air leaks, or there are bad hoses or clamps, you'll boil at 200 instead of 250 due to atmospheric pressure rather than 14 psi or whatever the cap is supposed to be.
that is water cooling basics tech.
other things that can cause over heating AND loss of power, is a bad intake leak, or very lean condition, or a very advanced spark. de-smogging can be dangerous in that, one can create undesirable conditions for combustion engines if done incorrectly. You should start by starting it up from cold and carefully look for vacuum/intake leaks with a can of carb cleaner. short burst at the carb base wait a second or three to see if the idle changes. shot at the intake front top wait listen> and so on. be careful with the flamethrower spray tho and when it gets hot, quit. Find the vacuum leak and isolate it. Could be badly routed vacuum hoses. use the search function to go thru all the de-smog threads to see how yours should be and make it right. make sure your timing is set not too high...post pics of what's under your hood
 
Thank you for an intelligent reply Lambcrusher and not treating me like a douche. May be running lean as PO replaced stock carb with a Weber but I will check out the other possibilities and narrow it down. Thanks for the advice.
 
So you saying I'm the product (by) of imperfect breeding ? :hillbilly: Maybe....

Like I said, I wasn't trying to diss you (much ;))... Was only trying to say you need more detailed posts if you want detailed answers. Unless Lambcrusher reads it, and can divine what what one is actually asking :p

Post pix!
 
I don't believe it was mentioned and in as far as de-smog, if po removed smog pump, did he/she provide some way of turning water pump? On alot of these vehicles, if not all, the water pump is turned by the belt that runs smog pump. There should either be some sort of idler pulley, de-veined smog pump, or perhaps a Saginaw pump(steering) in place of smog pump, to turn water pump. If you have been driving fir a while and it just started overheat. A bad thermostat(not opening) an cause an overheat and more than likely water would boil out. Depending on how hot it got and how long you drove it hot, you could also have blown head gasket or worse. The water pump has a pulley(upper center, forward of engine) that has 2 grooves for belts. make sure you have a belt turning that pulley. that pulley also is the one that has the fan attached to it.
 
After rading your post again, if smog pump is still installed on vehicle but, belt is missing, that is or, more tahn likely the cause of your overheat. Again, make sure you have a belt turning your pump and if not, it was run on smog pump. Before you try to install a new belt, make sure the smog pump turns freely. It is possible that the pump could have frozen up and caused the belt to break.
 
Naw Spike...no harm done. My PTSD is making me bitchy today. Will post pix as suggested.
 
Junky...that is what I was wondering about the smog pump. The smog pump pulley still turns freely so if I install a new belt that will work? It hasnt had a belt since I got the vehicle in Sept, but the weather is getting warmer now so maybe that comes in to play as well. Seems like I have a lot of leads to run down now! Thanks for the info!
 
Pics of engine

No belts to smog pump or power steering. (Just installed new PS pump and pulley) image.webp

image.webp
 
It's a definate possibilty. Is there a belt that turns the water pump at all, and, does it have an electric fan? Even with an electric fan, you still need water pump turning as well to circulate water. If the smog pump turns freely, you should be able to use it. The belt should go on the back groove of the top pulley and around matching groove on crank pulley.
 
Will check it tomorrow...i really appreciate the help!
 
Looks like when the power steering was eliminated the belt was re-routed to run fan. In order for you to include P/S pump, you will have to get a longer belt and run Alt, crank, and power steering. This will make it necessary to use smog pump to run water pump. The rough running(compression loss as you say) could have been caused by water being blown in carb during overheat, if water was getting into the fan. Your set up should lok something like this:

stockAC-one you want.webp
 
Not knowing how close an eye you keep on coolant/water levels, you may have run out of either due to a leak somewhere also. You might want to consider getting your cooling system pressure checked.
 

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