80 vs 6000lb trailer and 99 degree heat... (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Threads
473
Messages
9,117
Thought I'd report on the performance and tech of our 97 while towing a 6000lb travel trailer through Utah's canyon lands and national parks, since so many seem to have overheating issues. We got home yesterday. She has 244,000 miles and got a new radiator at 130,000, and a new blue fan clutch a couple years ago just as PM. Totally stock right down to the Michelins. Last year she got a coolant flush and thermostat. Just before leaving, I put new spark plugs in - stock type - lubed the driveshafts, and put on a new a/c belt. Every year I do a drain and fill of the auto trans, which changes out about a third of the fluid. So essentially just meticulous maintenance.

We traveled 3001 miles and over about 15 passes over a mile high, and 3 of these were over 9000 feet - one close to 10,000. The temp was typical Utah desert in July - hovering right around 100. Many of these I was in 2nd gear at 3000rpm and 45mph ish, but for the really bad ones I was in 1st gear at 3000rpm at about 25mph. Really brutal conditions, and the truck seemed to handle it well. Gauge went up a half needle width, but oil pressure held steady (Rotella Synth) and no issues with brakes or other systems.

One one truly steep and really high pass, I turned off the a/c and turned on the heat full blast with the windows down because I was really worried. I was pulling so much heat off the engine that way that a strange thing happened. When we crested the pass, I pushed the temp control back to cold but did not turn on the a/c because the outside air up that high was actually comfortable. But the vents kept putting out hot air. Really hot. A full 30 seconds later, still putting out full hot air. I couldn't believe the hot water valve had evidently failed and I was going to have to stop and manually move it. A full minute went by and now I was sure of it. Then, the heat diminished just slightly and I realized that I had put so much heat into the heater core, the entire dash ducting and other components that it had taken that long simply to push the heat out of the system. It took a full 5 minutes to cool. I've never experienced that before but it shows just how effective that strategy is if you ever need to do it yourself to prevent an overheat. I was pulling an enormous amount of heat off the engine's load that way and happy to have that evidence.

We burned fuel like beer at a frat party - 7.14 miles per gallon for one memorable tank. Typically we got 10.3 MPG. After disconnecting the trailer and driving home at 68mph with a rooftop tent still on we got 14mpg without the trailer.

One additional comment. Many of you have complained about a faint idle stumble which this 97 has also. My 93 doesn't do it - smooth classic straight 6 idle like butter. Well, when I changed the plugs on this 97, I found one of them looser than the others even though I use a torque wrench and anti sieze. When I put the new plugs in (last ones were in 95,000 miles) that stumble was gone and it was there for years. Smooth as butter. The old plugs looked uniform and worn but the slightly loose plug had some crud into the threads as though it was actually allowing some blowby.

Also, I always used the highest octane I could find while towing in the desert. So if you are having overheat issues, consider doing what it takes to bring your 80s cooling system back as close to new as possible and you may find your donkey will again faithfully work hard for you.

Regards,
DougM
 
So, you only had the stock gauge to indicate temp? If so, good plan, many more would be happy with their rigs if they used that plan!:hillbilly:
 
I use the bluetooth from OBDII to an Android phone running Torque Pro. That right there gives me so much telemetry and data that I watch every parameter so much that I worry like a dad with his daughter out on prom night.
 
So, you only had the stock gauge to indicate temp? If so, good plan, many more would be happy with their rigs if they used that plan!:hillbilly:

no numbers - more happy ? :hillbilly:
 
I did a recent road trip also, with a much lighter trailer - built on an M416 frame. Total loaded weight of the truck and trailer was in the neighborhood of 7900 to 8000 pounds, based on a scale at a local gravel pit. We went from Colorado Springs up through Yellowstone, Glacier, back down through Flathead valley, Idaho, Flaming Gorge and then back I70.

Had dismal mileage the first day - about 8.5 MPG, posted a thread on it. I have some suspicions about the condition of the intake tube, so I wrapped it with some duct tape in the corrugated area. I hadn't noticed it running rough earlier, but I think it ran a little smoother after that and mileage for the rest of the trip was between 10.5 and 11.5 MPG. All of these numbers are uncorrected for the 33s, so ad 5% or about 0.5 MPG Just ordered a new SS EMS Powered intake tube - they're on sale for a bit less then CDan's OEM price right now.

Had no heat problems until I tried to pass somebody even slower then me in Flaming Gorge - needle started rising, and I quickly got off of it. Ambient was probably in the upper 80s/low 90s. After that I was watching the temp gauge like a hawk and saw it nudge a few times. It seems that RPMs to high (in the neighborhood of (4K) or to low (< 2.5K) caused the heat to go up - was happiest if I could keep the RPMs in the neighborhood of 3K to 3.5K. Completely unscientific of course, as I never pulled the same hill twice.

Then I hit Vail pass (10,600') and wasn't sure I'd make it. AC off, heat on and in first gear. Took a break before Loveland pass/Eisenhower tunnel (11,000') and removed the winch cover that I had just put on before the trip and which I though might be restricting air flow somewhat. Climb up to Eisenhower was less eventful, but certainly not fast - didn't have to turn on the heat. Could be the winch cover, but I think the western approach to Eisenhower isn't as steep as Vail pass and ambient was at least a few degrees cooler as well..

I'm pretty concerned about how hard those passes were with even that little trailer. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made it with a 6K pound trailer! My cooling system has been pretty thoroughly gone through - new thermostat, hoses, heater valve, modified blue hub fan last summer, then a new 3 core brass all metal radiator in January. Transmission drained & fill last summer as well.
 
Last edited:
no numbers - more happy ? :hillbilly:
No numbers equals about to be caught with your pants down.

I like to closely watch the coolant and inlet air temps to see what is happening and take action before something horrible happens. I just installed a Safari snorkel and I love seeing how cool the IAT is now. Numbers are good. An UltraGage is good!

Doug - you are far braver than I. I would never try towing that much weight anywhere with a stock truck, much less on steep high mountain grades. I get frustrated as it is with my dinky little utility trailer on those precipitous Idaho grades.....

Having seen how much effect a snorkel has on the air temp - I strongly suggest that anyone really stressing his engine in the mountains put one on sooner than later. It makes sense to reduce the temp going in rather than cranking up the heater and opening all the windows....

John Davies
Spokane WA USA
 
...
Having seen how much effect a snorkel has on the air temp - I strongly suggest that anyone really stressing his engine in the mountains put one on sooner than later. It makes sense to reduce the temp going in rather than cranking up the heater and opening all the windows....

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

IAT has nothing to do with coolant, heater or the air blowing in the window temps.:confused:

A 10 degree reduction in IAT is good for what, 1% HP increase, other than that nota.:hillbilly: If you really want to have an effect on IAT, try an active solution, like water/methanol injection, intercooler, etc. Properly setup can have a big effect on IAT, but even that is likely to have little to no real effect on a N/A rig.
 
IAT has nothing to do with coolant, heater or the air blowing in the window temps.:confused:

A 10 degree reduction in IAT is good for what, 1% HP increase, other than that nota.:hillbilly: If you really want to have an effect on IAT, try an active solution, like water/methanol injection, intercooler, etc. Properly setup can have a big effect on IAT, but even that is likely to have little to no real effect on a N/A rig.

Well, OK, I agree it won't just cure the heat soak issue, but I am seeing way more than 10 degrees reduction, and I can feel the power difference easily. Your 1% figure seems a little low, from what I have read.

The OEM setup is truly a horrible design in terms of heat buildup and restriction.
Way cooler air plus a little ram effect equals more power, which means you don't have to flog the thing so darned hard. I'm leaving on a 1000 mile trip next week and will see for sure - it will involve lots of mountain grades.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I know the guage isn't known to be accurate but the A/C never kicked itself off once on the entire trip, which means the other temp measurements the engine monitors didn't see unacceptable levels either. I shut the air down on the highest passes though - not interested in tempting fate.....

Anyhow, just some input for those having tow/cooling issues. This vehicle has travelled nearly a quarter million miles and with no mods and meticulous care she will yank 3 tons of trailer over passes in murderous heat and look good doing it.

On the maintenance front I should also mention that I do something unusual every spring before tow season begins. I soak the cold radiator fins and a/c condensor with Simple Green or a degreaser using a spray bottle then spray it out. I spray it from the front and back with the degreaser and often repeat. Then I focus on rinsing from the rear to dislodge anything jammed in from the front. I think getting rid of the fine dust and layer of road grime and oil that attracts the dust increases the efficiency of heat transfer. Air passing directly against the metal fins, vs passing against an insulating layer no matter how thin. This vehicle is also at stock timing where I ran it at 7 degrees advance for many years, never ever pings, and I manually shift the trans when under duress like a sustained pass. By that I don't make the trans downshift as I go up a pass. If it does so before I manually shift it to 2 for instance, then I immediately put the selector in 2 and don't let it shift up again even if the hill flattens for a while. No full throttle shifting against a total weight of 12,000 lbs. In fact, my favorite RPM is 3000 and I just sit there for the full climb. If I see it won't hold 3000 RPM in 2nd, I back off the gas and slow to 2000rpm then pull the selector to 1st with a little throttle so the shift is under a nice load and goes smoothly. Then again the RPMs jump to about 3000 and I adjust the throttle to stay right there. It's worth mentioning that a full throttle shift in a trans already at its upper heat range dumps a LOT more heat into the trans. Do that a few times in a mile of climbing and you're asking for trouble as the scalding trans oil is dumping its heat into the radiator. So that may have a lot to do with my success. I am very involved in the vehicle's struggle and actively doing things to help it before the heat builds up. One gas stop on a 100 degree day, the gasoline was actually boiling as it returned to the tank. I'd been pulling against a heavy headwind and up a grade before pulling in. I was surprised because I had let the truck gently drive off the ramp and idled it at the pump for a couple minutes. But yeah, the tank just kept pushing air out the filler and when I put my ear to it (don't do this - kinda stupid) I could clearly hear what sounded like boiling which I suspect was from the fuel return line being so hot the boiling fuel was obviously vaporizing. I also open the hood at gas stops to vent the heat from the engine bay. So, lots of stuff - I kinda treat her like you would a good horse......

DougM
 
Interesting info, thanks for posting.

I drive mine the same as you describe when towing (2500lb pop up) or not. I'll keep the RPM around 3500 if it will hold. My thinking is max torque is achieved at 3200 RPM and max HP over 4k RPM. So, 3500 or so is putting me in the heart of the power band.

As to heat soak, I wonder if a set of auxillary pusher fans would help? When your speed drops to 25-35 mph I would think increasing air flow over the radiator would be a benefit.
Maybe an external oil cooler as well.
 
Well, OK, I agree it won't just cure the heat soak issue, but I am seeing way more than 10 degrees reduction, and I can feel the power difference easily. Your 1% figure seems a little low, from what I have read.

Heat soak generally refers to what happens when the motor is turned off, somethings extended idling, when climbing, is heat load.

We often caravan, several '80 series, some dorkel equipped, some not, talk on the radio, comparing things like IAT, etc, in real time. At highway speed, same conditions, hill, etc, direct comparison, I would call 10 degrees generous, often less, when compared to stock. Idle/stopped is a different story, but most don't care how much power the motor makes at idle?:hillbilly:

The OEM setup is truly a horrible design in terms of heat buildup and restriction.
Way cooler air plus a little ram effect equals more power, which means you don't have to flog the thing so darned hard. I'm leaving on a 1000 mile trip next week and will see for sure - it will involve lots of mountain grades.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

The stock setup works well. At cruising speed a cool airflow (almost ambient) flows along the passenger fender well area, it's almost like it was designed that way.:hillbilly: Many users mess this up by mounting "stuff" in the way (dual batteries, S/C stuff, etc), or venting the hood, right where the cool airflow is, then is replaced by hotter fan output air.

What intake restriction are you referring to?:confused:

The ram air thing could be real, IIRC at ~600mph it would make about the same as a S/C, it falls off quickly, at less than 100mph, is negligible. But that would be ignoring the design of the dorkel, it has vents around the top that would release any ram effect. It draws air through what, another 3' of tube, if anything has more restriction than stock.:meh:
 
Yeah, I know the guage isn't known to be accurate but the A/C never kicked itself off once on the entire trip, which means the other temp measurements the engine monitors didn't see unacceptable levels either. ...

Agree, they are good horses, and it made it. :cheers: According to the stock gauge dead range and the sparse documentation, the acceptable temp range is pretty wide and you were likely inside of it, maybe, barely?

I shut the air down on the highest passes though - not interested in tempting fate.....
...

Just guessing, based on lots of experience with them and your testimony, likely were at ~220F? Traveling in desert conditions, has thought me the value of a solid cooling system. The blue hub is notoriously weak in stock form, especially in the type of abuse that you were giving it. I would swap the fluid for 30K for that type of games. Makes for a stronger system, with more margin to "fate" and no real downside, is easy, cheap, better.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom