Builds ?????????80 tm Build Input Requested (4 Viewers)

[Delancy]

First, I'm calling BS on the "completely stock rear". Hahaha.

I'm betting the length the rears have been extended by LandTank aren't publicized, but I wouldn't think they'd be 20mm longer.

I know that a 2" lift on a similar rear configuration netted less than a full turn on the link ends and the panhard. Have all high dollar adjustable heims and all are set to OEM lengths.

Due to issues with wheels/tires, I'll be running a day behind on coil/arm install. Should be rolling again late afternoon, tomorrow. Temporary shocks get here tomorrow, so hope to put it together this weekend.

See what results.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Its completely stock mate. All ive done is adjust bumstops. Stock arms, stock bush's.

Your getting your head filled full of it. I want your truck to turn out well because your representing shanes coils. There are other arms here aswell (non adjustable) that claim to correct pinion angle in the rear. They are 20mm longer, thats where the number came from. Trust me. You do not want heims... There is no need for them and they affect ride qaulity and behavour. Save your $$$ for better items.

 

[adventr]

Tim you have more to gain than anyone with amount of lift your running. At that angle your panhards are almost useless. The amount of angle on your tierods under articualtion would flog them out quick. Flipping the arms is just 1 small part.

What?

 

[TheBigBoy]

What?

lol. Ill draw you some pretty pictures to explain it better. I know link calculators and all the reading of explinations gets confusing.

 

[TheBigBoy]

What alot of people dont realise is the driveability of the truck onroad plays a big part of its capabilities offroad. Think of the angles of force for a minute with a lifted truck. Say your climbing a 45 degree hill. Why do some truck bounce around and spin the tyres easily and others climb with ease? Because your angle of force is pushing straight up in the air (verticle). If you had these lower it would climb the hill with ease. And be a huge improvment with onroad driving also.

Your front panhard angle/drag link directly relates to driveability and handling also. Although you can play with your panhard and get rolling axis correct while the panhard is still on huge angle. It wont drive nice. What ever you do to the front, you do to the rear also. And to stop your 4 link from ripping itself apart all mounting point on the diff have to be raised the same as the panhard height.

That measurement A. The point from body weights to rolling axis is important. The further away from eachother the more body roll. Think of a metal pole - The higher up you climb the more unstable it becomes.

Hope this explains it better.

 

[adventr]

lol. Ill draw you some pretty pictures to explain it better. I know link calculators and all the reading of explinations gets confusing.

Oh, can't wait to see this.

Can you also draw up some pretty pics to explain to me why you can't lengthen the rear lower control arms, and why that wouldn't adjust the pinion angle?

I'd also like to see why the rear panhard axle mount can't be raised without the suspension "tearing itself apart".

And PLEASE, educate all of us simple minded folk on Roll Axis in regards to that rear panhard.
Don't forget that Toyota gave our LHD rigs opposing panhards! (front vs rear)


Bonus points if your diagrams include an exploding bus full of nuns.

 

[TheBigBoy]

You can lengthen the rear lowers. But it force the tire back further during tuck. Means alot more cutting and altering to clear. The amount the uneqaul 4 link takes it out for a 4" lift isnt worth talking about and has no adverse affects.

The rear 4link with panhard is designed for ALL the points to work together. It will bind up earlier with that point changed. But with the weight of the truck on it forcing it. It will try and tear the towers apart.

Ps. pass on the nun picture

 

[TheBigBoy]

You can be critical all you want. Im only trying to help you out and stop you from making costly mistakes, and much more capable and handling rig on and off road. The best you can get, is as close to stock geometry as possible.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Here take a look at this pic of an uneqaul 5 link. Tell me if the lower arms need to be lengthened or shortened (first problem). It will also tell you if the upper arms need to be lengthened or shortened instead.

I wasnt aware that Chris was going to use adjustable heims until he mentioned it, as they sell solid unadjustable lower arms here that are 20mm longer. So to be correct pinion angle you would have to adjust uppers by slightly more than 20mm aswell. Hence the problem of alot more cutting of the gaurds (35's) for no added benefit.

 

[Delancy]

I'm not running any heims, yet. This is a discussion.

I am on another vehicle, but I haven't realized a benefit to the adjustability, because it didn't change the geometry enough to warrant. All my adjustable links on the FJC are set at the exact same length as OE.

I don't know how much a 4" lift, in comparison, will alter pinion angle and the reason for the query.

I don't want to deal with heim's, unless necessary. I'm used to the maintenance on the FJC, but doesn't mean I look forward to on the 80. At 2500 mile intervals, I'm hitting every zerk and every heim with high dollar lubrication, which isn't a big deal, but the benefits of those joints (short of the front end) are no more than standard (possibly greater misalignment capabilities aid in articulation, but don't care to debate)

I don't see how it's possible to not lengthen the panhard, regardless of rod end.

I hope to be staying at a Holiday Inn, soon.

 

[TheBigBoy]

I'm not running any heims, yet. This is a discussion.

I am on another vehicle, but I haven't realized a benefit to the adjustability, because it didn't change the geometry enough to warrant. All my adjustable links on the FJC are set at the exact same length as OE.

I don't know how much a 4" lift, in comparison, will alter pinion angle and the reason for the query.

I don't want to deal with heim's, unless necessary. I'm used to the maintenance on the FJC, but doesn't mean I look forward to on the 80. At 2500 mile intervals, I'm hitting every zerk and every heim with high dollar lubrication, which isn't a big deal, but the benefits of those joints (short of the front end) are no more than standard (possibly greater misalignment capabilities aid in articulation, but don't care to debate)

I don't see how it's possible to not lengthen the panhard, regardless of rod end.

I hope to be staying at a Holiday Inn, soon.

4" lift on the 80's rear 4 link = stuff all angle change. Not even worth looking at.

You will need adjustable panhards front and rear for fine tuning. You have to cycle both left and right sides and adjust. Its going to be a trade off on the LHD rigs. As you want it to face in a straight line but also tyres clear the arches and chassi.

 

[Slowerthanu]

BigBoy, I'm not sure how it is in Australia, but here on Ih8mud, arrogance only makes you look foolish.

I am sure Delancy is appreciating all input he is receiving but he more than likely isn't appreciating your little stabs and insults that you love throwing out there.

If you are truly trying to represent Shane's company, maybe attempt a little tact.

I too would like to know why a panhard above the links will tear the links apart. Many high steer and panhard setups sit above the links for packaging reasons.

 

[TheBigBoy]

BigBoy, I'm not sure how it is in Australia, but here on Ih8mud, arrogance only makes you look foolish.

I am sure Delancy is appreciating all input he is receiving but he more than likely isn't appreciating your little stabs and insults that you love throwing out there.

If you are truly trying to represent Shane's company, maybe attempt a little tact.

I too would like to know why a panhard above the links will tear the links apart. Many high steer and panhard setups sit above the links for packaging reasons.

I never meant any of it to be taken as arrogance, stabs or insults. It is a problem that it comes accross the internet like that. And without knowing me, it has been interpritated like that elsewhere also. But never my intent. So I appollogise if I have come accross this way.

As for the panhard vs links in the rear. There really is no way for me to explain it without some sort of visual cat program. Explaining things is sometimes very hard and thats why I use pictures. Not to insult anyone's intellengence. But it does bind and put huge pressure on the link towers.

 

[TheBigBoy]

BigBoy, I'm not sure how it is in Australia, but here on Ih8mud, arrogance only makes you look foolish.

I am sure Delancy is appreciating all input he is receiving but he more than likely isn't appreciating your little stabs and insults that you love throwing out there.

If you are truly trying to represent Shane's company, maybe attempt a little tact.

I too would like to know why a panhard above the links will tear the links apart. Many high steer and panhard setups sit above the links for packaging reasons.

Sorry just re read your post. Its not the front. The fronts fine solong as panhard and drag link are on the same angle. Its the rear panhard point working in with the 4 link Im refering too.

 

[Riad]

Sure it'll be sacrilege, but will be de-blinging with matte black.


View attachment 652976

Are these for off road use only? I wonder if I can use these on road (safe at 70 mph?). I have seen these b4. Where did you get them?

Nice build BTW

 

[Delancy]

To clear the air.

In all honesty, I never took any of Mark's statements as arrogant.

From experience dealing with arrogance on other forums and from reading the Australian boards for so long and being more accustomed to the dialect and overall attitude amongst members, I don't feel it's his intent to be portrayed as.

My opinion, and take for what it's worth.

Sometimes it's difficult to accurately interpret the post point, when merely reading text on a screen.
Sometimes it's difficult to get a point across in the same manner, and I'm sure we've all experienced posts that were misinterpreted or misunderstood.

The benefit of forums is the vast amount of others experiences, be it failure or success, as a resource to gain from. In the case of the TLC with a worldwide presence, it's beneficial to explore the trials and tribulations from across the globe.

Off soap box.

 

[Delancy]

Are these for off road use only? I wonder if I can use these on road (safe at 70 mph?). I have seen these b4. Where did you get them?

It's all "off road use only", but probably safer than a Smart car in the land of SUVs, piloted by soccer moms late for a pedi. Hahaha.

They race 80s down under (got me, but they do) and Superior produces these for competition vehicles. Very well built, but the proof is in the puddin', which is setting up now.

I bought from Shane at Suspension Stuff after communicating for months with Rhys at Superior. Tried sourcing stateside, but was never replied from the queries to Gibson (yes, the guitar manufacturer. He's a thread here showcasing his) and didn't want to run a taller lift that the others are specd for.

Will be measuring the OE set up, sans coils and shocks, then these, so will have an accurate depiction of the improvement, then will "butt dyno" the ride.

My goal is to be done before the Southern Cruiser Crawl in Hot Springs late September (I think), "tested" and ready for bear. Sounds like a lot of time, but it'll be well into the 100s here until mid-September and I slow dramatically in the heat.

 

[Slowerthanu]

I apologize for clogging up your project thread.

Back on track and please let me know if you would like me to delete any of my posts.

Will you be able to get to the install this weekend?

Dan

 

[Delancy]

I apologize for clogging up your project thread.

Back on track and please let me know if you would like me to delete any of my posts.

Will you be able to get to the install this weekend?

Dan

No apology necessary, Dan. Not clogging up anything, as far as I'm concerned, no reason to delete anything.

Hell, I'm ecstatic that there's dialogue and not a monologue, so appreciate all input.

I honestly don't know. Tires aren't here, nor are the shocks, and it's sitting on jack stands across town, right now, waiting on tires. I'm waiting on delivery.

Can't re-mount the OEs because of tears in the sidewall coming off, so all up to Brown, now.

I didn't give this much consideration until this very second, but hoping I can drive the seven miles home with 345/75/16s and no lift. Hahaha.

 

[Fraglerock]

I didn't give this much consideration until this very second, but hoping I can drive the seven miles home with 345/75/16s and no lift. Hahaha.

Let me know how that goes Chris, as I may be in the same boat over here.