80 knuckles on 40 axle

[Toyoland66]

If you consider that gears, lockers, etc are a constant (as in you have to buy them regardless of what axle platform you build) then I would say a D60 is cheaper strength/ strength than building a cruiser axle. You have to upgrade pretty much every component outside of the third on a cruiser axle to equal the strength of a stock D60, especially a D60 with 35 spline outers.

There are however advantages to running the cruiser axles. Drop out third, fabricated housing which is easier to weld to, less weight, more clearance. You have to run bigger tires on a D60 to equal the same clearance of a 9.5 with smaller tires. You begin chasing weak links again.

I am building a 9.5/ 80 hybrid. I lucked out and found all of the axles I need in pull it yourself junkyards. I have about $325 into it so far to get a complete front minus third member and a complete SF rear. I have more cost to come for a LHD steering arm and steering link/ tre's as well as a rebuild kit. I wanted a wider axle since I will be running FJ cruiser steel rims. I also wanted to keep it all Toyota.

 

[SNLC]

Some more worthless info....

I totally get the built Toyota axle vs domestic. The advantages pointed out are nice advantages using a Toyota axle. On a trip to Australia 5yrs ago I was hanging out with a guy who builds buggies and competes. He was going on about light duty axles and how he uses them in his buggies. I was saying just build a custom axle using heavy duty domestic stuff. He had adapted a drive flange from a tractor or built his own based on it's design. I can't recall which exactly but the dude had 35yrs working on tractors in the family business. He swore it increased strength of the axle, double if not more. of course dumping the f/w hub and related parts will increase strength. He was running 40" stickies on his buggy with 8" f&r steering axles. He had a number of trophies on the shelf at his house and said he had never broken anything in the axles. Any ways, he kind of sold me on his custom drive flange but when it came time to buy a full sized axle, his drive flange was to much cash. $2500 each!!

Cheers

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Some more worthless info....

Cheers

How is this worthless info?

We articulated that there really isn't a point in doing the 80 outer setup on a 40 axle since the inner axle strength is the same and you have to buy custom knuckles to get high-steer, or else your steering links are super low. Taking that another step further, if you want to make your 40/60 axle stronger, you can buy longs, 6-shooters, trunion eliminators and drive flanges, but that's a lot of $$ into an axle that, when upgraded, is about as strong as a stock Dana 60.

Do what you'd like, but make an effort to collect all relevant info before making a decision!

 

[yOHda]

Mini vs. 80. There is a difference.

I wanted to stay lighter and Toyota, so I built a 9.5" front axle with 80 outers, RuffStuff housing,RHD steering arm. If a 8" axle can live with 39.5s, I think I should be okay when on 40s,42s even. My 40 is 1500+ pounds lighter than an 80.

Whats the cost of a used 60? and I assume you will be swapping out the rear axle as well. You also have to consider new 8 lug wheels, disc brakes depending the rear axle you choose, dana to toy flanges, larger tires, etc. And a stock 60 will only survive for so long. a lot of minitruck guys break stock stubs in no time.

The good thing about a 60 though is it's a upgrade once kind of axle. My next build I want to be able to drive cross country and wheel without any cares, so I'll probably be looking for a 60/14 or 60/70 combo again.

Some specs:
D60 pinion - 29 spline 1.625.
Toy 9.5 pinion - 27 spline 1.575.

PRODUCT / ................................................. FT.LB. TORQUE/.... % TWIST
Yukon 4340 Dana 60 35 spline short side axle.........12,000 ................130
Stock Dana 60 35 spline short side axle .................6,500 ..................35
Yukon 4340 Dana 44 30 spline short side axle ........5,800 ...................35
Stock dana 44 30 spline........................................5,000....................35
Yukon 4340 Birfield Eliminator kit (ear failure).........5,500....................50
Longfield 4340 30 spline (shaft failure)....................8,500....................175
Longfield 4340 27 spline........................................6,500....................75
Stock Toyota Birfield.......................................... ..4,200 ...................45
Stock Toyota Inner Axle........................................5,000 ...................45
All Pro "Profield".................................... .... ........ 3,500 ...................30

Unfortunately, I dont think anyone will ever test 80 stuff.

 

[Gumby]

Long supers with 30 spline inners $628
loaded six shooters $270
trunnion eliminator kit $210


Total piece of mind - $1108

Can you buy a stock D60 for that and cut it down with custom inners and buy new rims and a custom drive shaft for that? And what are you doing in the rear? Are you gonna run 8 lugs in the front and 6 lugs in the back? Or are you building a custom offset D60/70 or 14B rear?

 

[Toyoland66]

And 56" WMS

There are other factors to consider than just strength

 

[GLTHFJ60]

And 56" WMS

There are other factors to consider than just strength

I agree completely, which is why if you simply want a stronger stock axle, go with longs, 6 shooters and be done with it. However, if you're talking about adding width and making a hybrid 40/60/80 front axle, I'd suggest considering a dana 60.

 

[mr jits]

I've gone the 60 series axle route with 6 shooters and Longs. I'm going to upgrade studs and anything I can think of while I'm at it.
I picked up some housings off fleabay (ridiculously low price of $160 for both, shipped), and will be building them from the ground up. Already picked up some IPOR chromoly's for the rear and a rear disc brake kit.
I still think the 80 outers would be a worthy investment, just not for me at the moment.

 

[Gumby]

So after all that discussion and 100% agreement that 80 outers are not a good investment, you still are of the opinion that they are?

theres a term for people who ask for advice on internet forums and then don't listen to any of it.

You, sir, are an askhole.

 

[fjfodee]

^

 

[fjfodee]

Even tho it has been determined that 80 knuckles/birfs aren't worth it, I still have a question.

Could you use an LC Wizard axle extension (or something of the like) to achieve the correct axle width for a 40 or 60 axle to accept the inner 80 shafts?

Are the Longfield, or should I say TG, 80 birfs not as strong as the 30 spline Super Sets?

 

[mr jits]

So after all that discussion and 100% agreement that 80 outers are not a good investment, you still are of the opinion that they are?
Actually, Carlos(?) from Nitro Gear ran the 80 knuckles (hellfire I believe), a 9.5 Toy ring and pinion and his shafts and birfs in a custom housing on his BJ70 during the UOA and if I remember correctly didn't have any birf or axle shaft related issues. I think if someone were wanting to keep things from the Toyota mindset and had the coin to do it, there would be no reason not to go for it. That being said, the budget sees no reason to think such a thing a worthy investment of my time or money. It is cool though.

theres a term for people who ask for advice on internet forums and then don't listen to any of it.
Obviously you missed my post about using 60 axles with 6 shooters and Longs. I most definitely listened to the advice I was given here and payed close attention to the entire discussion.
You, sir, are an askhole.

Better to ask questions and learn, than ask not and break.

 

[Toyoland66]

Even tho it has been determined that 80 knuckles/birfs aren't worth it, I still have a question.

Could you use an LC Wizard axle extension (or something of the like) to achieve the correct axle width for a 40 or 60 axle to accept the inner 80 shafts?

Are the Longfield, or should I say TG, 80 birfs not as strong as the 30 spline Super Sets?

I disagree with not worth it but maybe I am misunderstanding. It isn't worth it to convert a 40 width axle to 80 outers but it can be worth it to run at full 80 width. If you want a 64" WMS 9.5" axle without running custom inners and understand the limitations (can't run SOA without aftermarket knuckles or high steer arms) and want to be able to build it with junkyard parts then it is worth it.

You can not run 80 inners with mini/LC birfields. 80 axles are 24 spline at the birfield, stock mini/LC is 27 spline.

I think nitro is selling 30 spline 80 kits but I am not 100% sure.
http://www.nitro-gear.com/news/2010...ds-axles-now-for-all-toyota-applications.html

And I understand the argument for running built 60 axles, my issue is that I will be running a 80 FF rear axle (FF, disks, drum in disk p-brake) and can't match the width using a 60 front without doing some screwy things. A 60 with IFS hubs is only ~62" WMS and the exta width outside the knuckle adds even more trunnion killing and housing bending leverage. There is the option of the LC wizard extension or custom housing but then you have to run a custom length inner which I don't want to do. I can run stock axles and birfs until they break rather than having to shell out for super 30's in a custom width from the beginning. Plus even running Tacoma rotors (FROR kit) and tundra calipers you can't match the braking of the stock 80 setup.

 

[yOHda]

I think nitro is selling 30 spline 80 kits but I am not 100% sure.
http://www.nitro-gear.com/news/2010...ds-axles-now-for-all-toyota-applications.html

Nope, FJ80 Kit is still 30/24.

For me, 80 stuff was the way to go. It is a great middle of the road option especially for someone who wants to stay Toyota. I like that my 40 is filled with 25 years newer Land Cruiser parts. Probably also the reason I'm stuffing a 1fz in there.

60's are not for everyone. Be honest with yourself and how hard you are on your rig, and you probably need less axle than you think. If you want the ability to hammer down with 44's and a V8, then you know you shouldnt be looking at Toy stuff anyway. I can tell you that of the few people that have tried it, the 80 stuff is holding up under lighter rigs with decent size tires and good gearing.

Look at what the Raisin was able to accomplish on small Toy stuff.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-truck-4runner/888295-ultimate-front-toyota-axle.html

If the investment in Toy stuff is worthwhile to you, that's all that matters.

 

[fjfodee]

From a quick and sloppy measurement between my 80 and 40 axles it seems that the length difference is on the long side. Correct?

LC Wizard extension is somewhere between 2-3 inches. Buy 2 and double them up, machine one down if need be, and it could be possible to run stock 80 inners.

Or maybe I'm missing something??

 

[yOHda]

I thought LC Wizard wasnt making the extensions anymore?.

fodee, there is a thread out in the www where someone took a 60 axle and adding the extension to the long side and built an 80 axle. It's been a year or so since I've run across the build. A little Google-fu may turn it up though.



*EDIT* The guy's build thread is gone, but this is what he says:

I just made what your asking about. You'll only need a extension tube for the driver side. The passenger side 80 knuckle ball will take make up for the extra length needed due to trunion bearing offset. The passenger side extension tube needs to be about 2 1/8 long.

Also the 80 knuckle balls will need a little material taken off where they slip into the housing. It is about .040" not much.

http://t4w.proboards.com/index.cgi?b...ay&thread=7429

PaulC



Taken from this thread:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/1072473-fj-80-front-inner-axle-length.html

 

[fjfodee]

Good info.

Thanks

 

[Toyoland66]

From a quick and sloppy measurement between my 80 and 40 axles it seems that the length difference is on the long side. Correct?

LC Wizard extension is somewhere between 2-3 inches. Buy 2 and double them up, machine one down if need be, and it could be possible to run stock 80 inners.

Or maybe I'm missing something??

The extra width is pretty much all long side, this means that leaf springs have to outboarded to run in a FJ40.

If you run 80 inners you have to run 80 birfs, I don't know if that is what you mean or not.

It is easier and cleaner to cut down a rear SF housing than to extend a front housing to the correct width imho. You just have to flip the diff to the cover side and cut new notches for the ring gear.

 

[notthejeepnomo]

http://www.rcvperformance.com/product-details-axles.aspx?sku=CVJ2474-P-RCV

says 30 spline. made in usa

 

[mookie]

Ok, the only advantage of a 80 series axle is the bigger birf correct? I can see that as plus if you are planning to run stock axle shafts but if your getting longfields anyway then who cares about the bigger birf? 99% of your breakage points are going to be elsewhere.

I just finished putting a HP D60 in my rig and i believe i've got about $1000 more into it than i did my old axle but i had to buy the d60 and i had it retubed for a pass drop.....and it is a heavy sob, it seems like the bare housing weighs more than my complete cruiser axle did but i can't see it getting bent like that old yota housing did either, to me other than the larger axle shafts, the beef housing is where the TRUE strength upgrade is with tons over yota axles. There's the option of building a toyota axle with an aftermarket housing but to me that is more turd polishing, at least use a Ford 9 if you go that route so your not married to that weak toy 3rd.

If you ever look in the axle classifieds on pirate, there are lots of built to the hilt toyota axles for sale on there, wonder why?