78 2F rocker arm (lack of) lubrication

[shmukster]

Been driving my new (to me anyway) 78 FJ40 for the last month and ironing out all the little problems that all used cruisers bring to the table. Drove it about thrty miles today without a problem, and decied to adjust the valves when I got home, they were really noisy. To my dismay when I removed the valve cover there were a lot of dry, unlubed areas in the rocker arm assembly. Rockers for the center two cylinders were slightly wet, those to the front and rear not wet at all. The clearance was way greater than it should have been and I adjusted to specs. I dribbled 10W-40 over the shafts and rockers, buttoned the engine up and started it. Runs great and is nice and quiet now.

I'm worried about the lack of lubrication, eventually it is going to be a big problem. Here's the backgorund- the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner, the head was done, new camshaft and timing gears installed and I believe he told me he put in a new oil pump, everything genuine OEM Toyota. The truck runs very strong- has a Weber and a header and pulls very well. The stock oil pressure gauge shows what appears to be pretty good oil pressure. The engine doesn't run hot at all.

What can be causing this problem? I tried the archives but couldn't find any threads that were helpful. Maybe someone else has run across a similar problem before. I'd apreciate any input. Thanks, Shmukster

 

[Trollhole]

Been driving my new (to me anyway) 78 FJ40 for the last month and ironing out all the little problems that all used cruisers bring to the table. Drove it about thrty miles today without a problem, and decied to adjust the valves when I got home, they were really noisy. To my dismay when I removed the valve cover there were a lot of dry, unlubed areas in the rocker arm assembly. Rockers for the center two cylinders were slightly wet, those to the front and rear not wet at all. The clearance was way greater than it should have been and I adjusted to specs. I dribbled 10W-40 over the shafts and rockers, buttoned the engine up and started it. Runs great and is nice and quiet now.

I'm worried about the lack of lubrication, eventually it is going to be a big problem. Here's the backgorund- the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner, the head was done, new camshaft and timing gears installed and I believe he told me he put in a new oil pump, everything genuine OEM Toyota. The truck runs very strong- has a Weber and a header and pulls very well. The stock oil pressure gauge shows what appears to be pretty good oil pressure. The engine doesn't run hot at all.

What can be causing this problem? I tried the archives but couldn't find any threads that were helpful. Maybe someone else has run across a similar problem before. I'd apreciate any input. Thanks, Shmukster

Cam bearing installed improperly?

I'm going to ask this out of stupidity. Since I know no other way of checking. Could you pull that headbolt remove the distributor and spin up the oilpump with a drill probably have to rock the engine in 4th to get the cam to align. If you dont get any oil to the top then I'm betting it's the cam bearing that wasn't aligned. And if so is gonna bring major suckage to you.

Grant will know what to do though.

 

[Robert LaDuke]

When was the work done on the engine? If it is a fresh rebuild my guess would be the builder may have put the headgasket on upside down covering the oil port to the head.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Gary,
Stop driving it. There is likely no oil getting to the rockers, other than what is dribbled onto the rocker shaft during oil top-off. The rockers and valve guides will very quickly wear away in this situation.

Possible culprits (in random order):

1. HG installed backwards
2. #3 cam bearing oriented wrong
3. wrong camshaft (#2 vs #3 bearing cross-drilled)
4. wrong rocker tower installed in #4 position
5. rocker shaft upside down or backwards

As you can see, there are many possible errors that can deprive the top end of oil. It's easy for a Cruiser neophyte to make any one of these little mistakes.

 

[nodaksn3]

Might have installed the rocker arm improperly. I think (and may not be correct, depends on the year) that the oil gets to the rocker arms via a hole in one of the stands or supports. The hole in the stand must be over the hole on the head thru which the oil is pumped up. Then, the rocker arm shaft itself has a hole which must match the hole in the stand, and so on, down to the rocker arms themselves. If these don't line up, no oil will be able to reach the rocker arms. Before I messed around with anything too sophisticated, I'd take the rocker arms off to check out if all that was assembled correctly. The pump could be putting out plenty of pressure to no avail. Good luck, Ned

 

[65swb45]

Gary,
Stop driving it. There is likely no oil getting to the rockers, other than what is dribbled onto the rocker shaft during oil top-off. The rockers and valve guides will very quickly wear away in this situation.

Possible culprits (in random order):

1. HG installed backwards
2. #3 cam bearing oriented wrong
3. wrong camshaft (#2 vs #3 bearing cross-drilled)
4. wrong rocker tower installed in #4 position
5. rocker shaft upside down or backwards

As you can see, there are many possible errors that can deprive the top end of oil. It's easy for a Cruiser neophyte to make any one of these little mistakes.

Everything he said, and just like he said it too.

Start at the top and work your way down. Pull the rockers and check the rocker shaft first. If it doesn't come off easily, chances are it was beaten on by a dumba*s knuckledragger disguised as a mechanic. Sadly, I have seen this before.

Best

Mark A.

 

[shmukster]

Help

Thanks for the responses, especially Jim C. I have the head and rocker assembly that I took off my 78 piggy last month and I believe the easiest place to start is to install my old never-disasembled rocker assembly onto the engine in my 40. If that cures the problem I'll feel lucky in more ways than one. I will re-post when I've been able to swap this around. Thanks again for all the input..........Gary S

 

[shmukster]

start of troubleshooting

Guess this ain't gonna be an easy fix. I pulled the rocker assembly off yesterday and the #4 pedestal is in the correct position to align with the oil passage in the block. Oh well, looks like the next step is to pull the head and hope that the head gasket has been installed incorrectly- that would be the easiest possible fix at this point. I hate to think a cam bearing is installed incorrectly!!!!

This engine has been together for three years or so although the previous owner didn't put a lot of mileage on it. Thankfully the rockers are still tight on the rocker shaft and the tops of the push rods and mating surfaces of the rocker arms look fine. I don't feel there has been any damage done so far and am thankful for that- this could have been disastrous!!!! Stay tuned...........Gary S

 

[FJ40Jim]

Gary, disassemble the rocker shaft and verify that the shaft has an oil hole that lines up w/ the hole in #4 stand.

 

[shmukster]

rocker arm

Jim- I did as you suggested and the rocker shaft does indeed have the hole in it aligned with the oil hole in the #4 pedestal. I figured it wouldn't be that easy. Guess pulling the head is the next easiest check- I am hoping it ain't the cam bearings installed incorrectly, pulling the head is enough work as it is!!!!! Stay tuned, and thanks immensely for the suggestions and counseling. Gary S

 

[CUMAPART]

Good luck Gary. I guess the good thing is that you caught it in time before $eriou$ damage occured. Mike

 

[grant5127]

Easy to tell if the HG is on correctly....the gasket will overhang past the block and head on the rear like in the pic below.....but then again someone could have installed the wrong gasket altogether....what I would do before going any farther is, run the motor a bit, kill it and remove the rocker shaft assy.& spark-plugs then crank the motor over with the starter and observe for oil exiting @ the hole....note: there is a small chance of a lifter jumping out of its bore when doing this procedure, but if no oil is present it wont make a s*** anyway.......

 

[Robert LaDuke]

While you have the head off you might find it beneficial to replace the failure prone pressed in oil bore plug with a threaded plug. Easier to get to with the head uninstalled.

 

[shmukster]

Happy ending to lubrication problem

Last week I got the time (and energy!!!) to pull the head of the engine. To my pleasant surprise the head gasket had indeed been installed upside down. It was not a genuine Toyota gasket and it didn't look like the front had been hand trimmed to allow the water pump to properly seat on the front of the block. In any event I bought a new gasket from the Toyota dealer, torqued thye head back on and all is well. This truck runs great, has tremendous power, and now has the lubrication up top that it needs. Fortunately no damage at all was done, all the rocker pedestals were still tight and free as were all the rocker arms. Pushrod ends were good as was everything else under the valve cover. So, all's well that ends well, and I thank everyone who contributed their input to my problem. Gary S (Shmukster)

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Thats a nice end to this story. It is amazing how long these will run with no oil to the head. One of my friends had a 2F head replaced at a Ford! truck place. Same issue with the HG. We drove to Death Valley and back, roughly 800 miles and while it was making more noise when we got home, it was still running. That head had to be scrapped and replaced again, this time by a real Land Cruiser shop (mudrak).

 

[FJ40Jim]

Glad to hear you got it sorted out so quick.
FWIW, there was one that came in here for noisy valves a few years ago. Pulled the VC to do valve adjust, saw powdered metal everywhere, w/ just a film of oil on things. Started engine, let it idle, no oil whatsoever. Head gasket had been changed one year prior, 4,000mi. ago. The head & rocker shaft was junk, but another used 1978 head & rocker stand got it running OK again. Hard to kill a 2F...

 

[Bluegrass40]

Gary,
Stop driving it. There is likely no oil getting to the rockers, other than what is dribbled onto the rocker shaft during oil top-off. The rockers and valve guides will very quickly wear away in this situation.

Possible culprits (in random order):

1. HG installed backwards
2. #3 cam bearing oriented wrong
3. wrong camshaft (#2 vs #3 bearing cross-drilled)
4. wrong rocker tower installed in #4 position
5. rocker shaft upside down or backwards

As you can see, there are many possible errors that can deprive the top end of oil. It's easy for a Cruiser neophyte to make any one of these little mistakes.

Celebrating the ~10.5yr anniversary of this fine post with question for @FJ40Jim regarding item 5 above.

I am rebuilding my ‘78 2F and was cleaning up and inspecting the rocker ask. I confirmed that the piling hole was aligned with the hole tower 4 but noticed that there is nothing to secure the rocker shaft orientation with that tower... so it seems that the rocker shaft can spin relative to that tower and then the piling holes would no longer align. Is that correct? Im hoping not because it seems difficult to make sure that hole is perfectly aligned at assembly and that it down not rotat to a different location over time.

Maybe I’m over thinking it. Comments appreciated.


Oh. Here is a pic of my progress.

 

[65swb45]

The rocker arm tube has six indexing notches carefully cut into it. The rocker arm stands are designed so that the the tube intrudes slightly into the area where the larger mounting studs and bolts go. Only when the tube is indexed so that the notches line up with the rocker arms will the studs and bolts pass smoothly.

Of course there have been more than a few "mechanics" who are not aware of the indexing and have just beat the rocker arms on. @HENDOG can tell you about one I met when I was in GA. [Note: that was SINCE my initial post]

 

[Bluegrass40]

Ok. That makes sense. So I guess if mine slid down over the studs without issue it should be aligned properly (I did verify that the oiling hole lined up with the proper riser).

Thx! For the help @65swb45

 

[65swb45]

Ok. That makes sense. So I guess if mine slid down over the studs without issue it should be aligned properly (I did verify that the oiling hole lined up with the proper riser).

Thx! For the help @65swb45

That’s what the like button is for.