70 series spring over ,who has done it and would you do it again ?

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I really like my HZJ73 that I am driving as a daily now but the front OME springs have dropped a bit to the point that I either need longer shackles in the front to clear my 35's or get another set of springs.

I am running 4.56 gears in it and have a set of 37's around and a brand new set of 40's that I would love to see under this 73.It needs some body work so I am wondering if I should stay spring under and trim the wheel arches to accommodate the bigger tires or go spring over.

My experience when living in Panama was that most soa trucks had a tendency to tip over on the trail way faster then a sua truck running the same tires.

I know linked with coilovers is the new thing to do but I want to keep it budget friendly and still run it on the freeway.

Show some pics if you got them

Thanks

Joe
 
SO tip over . .? naaaaaa !!!!!

On a serious note .. it all becomes of you want .. it's gonna be good enough for the girls .. or you want it pretty ..

coz 37" to 40" will require mayor trimming .. and body work ..
 
SO tip over . .? naaaaaa !!!!!

On a serious note .. it all becomes of you want .. it's gonna be good enough for the girls .. or you want it pretty ..

coz 37" to 40" will require mayor trimming .. and body work ..


You know me , I own 3 sawzalls,half a dozen grinders and a plasma.......and am not afraid to use them ;-)
 
Haven't SOA a 7* series, but I did SOA my FJ45, with wider axles (60 series) and have never regretted the decision. It's a low spring-over, rides, great with good articulation. My experience with sprung under, tall lifts, is they ride stiff and don't flex well.
 
Just IMO.

I agree tall lift spring under has quite a number of disadvantages. The high camber in the leaves make them inflexible and it makes shackle inversion a real issue. You normally have super high spring rate, you still have the loss of ground clearance under the axle from the leafs and it's hard not to make it drive decent (due to shackle angle, leverage on the bushes, castor change ect).

For hardcore offroading there's a number of flaws in the leaf 70 Series suspension design. First off it has quite low suspension roll centres (not centre of gravity) for a 4WD (as do Patrols, interestingly). This gives an uneasy "feel" and more body roll/lean on angles. Due to the length of the leafs and low roll centre design they have a pretty poor shackle/hanger clearance/approach angle. Due to the almost excessive thickness of the leaf packs you lose a lot of clearance under the diff, many 'Cruisers have more diff clearance than spring pad clearance.

On the plus side the leaves are quite long (flex better and have a lower natural frequency) and they're closely spaced (so there's more leverage on them).

Spring over gets rid of the issues related to excessive spring camber, you can gain craploads of clearance under the diff housing, you can have nicer shackle angle and depending how it's done, you can get a higher roll centre and improve hanger clearance.

It's hard to keep a 70 low enough with a spring over, a quick measure on my car shows you'd get 6.5-7" of lift over stock height. Even with sagged stock springs or custom low camber leafs that's still a lot of lift. I wouldn't lift one that high but that's more of a contentious matter of opinion and a can of worms I really don't want to get into. To me it sounds like you want to lift for tyre clearance but a MWB is quite an easy car to modify to clear massive tyres. The rear is easy to tub and the front is easy to cut. I could understand lifting for clearance on something like a 5 door wagon where you have to cut into door sealing area and so on, that's a big load of unpleasant work. You're going to have to move the front diff forwards quite a way to fit those tyres which could complicate things (potential chasssis extension).

You'l likely have to sort out some sort of anti-wrap bar. MWBs have relatively long tailshafts so you'l be okay there as far as vibes go but with a big lift the front tailshaft will not clear the manual gearbox (not sure about auto) cross member). You'l also need a high steer setup (better) or Z bar.

Because the 70 runs quite narrow spring spacing the 60 series diffs (and others) aren't a great fit, the inside edge of the leaf and the pumpkin want to share the same space. You guys live in a great land of custom housings but it's still one of those things that makes it more of a pain in the behind.

Personally, I'd go for a 3 link + panhard in the front using 80 series coil/shock towers (you guys might have better options over there but that's the best option here in Australia) and probably keep the rear spring under keeping everything relatively low. With both done properly (doing the work yourself) I don't think the cost would be massively different and there's a number of advantages. You could run what ever diff housing you want, you wouldn't need to run a high steer, no axle wrap issues, it will drive nicer, it makes moving the front diff forwards simpler, better approach angle, you can tune your roll centre ect.
 
The age old spring over vs spring under.

I've been running spring over for a while now. Is it more tippy.. sure but isn't everything lifted? Though this girl is heavy so I haven't actually had tipping issues. I've done jeeps, samurai's and trucks all spring over and this has been the best ride so far.

And I clear 37's without not a thing cut, makes me feel better about having the body stock.

Cheap and easy is spring over
If you want comfort ditch leafs and go coil.

But from experience a 74 with spring over and 37's I've not had a single issue with anything nor issues with tipping.

I want to go 40's and I have 3 inch leafs and shackles laying around. But I already don't fit in my garage haha
 
Dare makes some really good points. By the time you SOA, add a traction bar, move spring hangers, steering mods... Going for coils & links, in the front at least, is maybe not much more work for a way better result.

Another suggestion, I would look seriously at wider axles if you are going to the trouble of re-mounting them. Stock 70 is fairly narrow. 80 series FF rear is a good option, ~180mm wider than most 70 series. I used that with it's linkages plus a GQ Patrol front setup to beef up my LJ71 (but I don't think you get many Patrols in the US). Built it to fit 36's with a bit of guard trimming & it is now more stable than it was at 3" lower on 33's.

Cheers
Clint
 
Dare makes some really good points. By the time you SOA, add a traction bar, move spring hangers, steering mods... Going for coils & links, in the front at least, is maybe not much more work for a way better result.

Another suggestion, I would look seriously at wider axles if you are going to the trouble of re-mounting them. Stock 70 is fairly narrow. 80 series FF rear is a good option, ~180mm wider than most 70 series. I used that with it's linkages plus a GQ Patrol front setup to beef up my LJ71 (but I don't think you get many Patrols in the US). Built it to fit 36's with a bit of guard trimming & it is now more stable than it was at 3" lower on 33's.

Cheers
Clint

Dare makes a good point in theory,I still want to drive this Cruiser at 80 mph on the Highway.Most budget build linked suv's sound like there is an agricultural tractor coming with all the noise from the links and stuff.If I would consider linking it then it would be with a set of ORI's and rebuildable heim's (on the street you need to rebuild them more then crawling)

Plus I do not want to build a bad ass crawler out of it,I have a buggy to tear some s*** up already

I have plenty of access to GR Y60 axles but the rear is center drop and for the front only I am not tearing one up :-)

Plus using 80 series axles makes the tires stick out way to much,I can probably get away with it in Tx but driving around in Cali or so I would get in deep trouble.

Let's get back on topic and see if there are more people that are actually drive a sprig over 70.
 
The age old spring over vs spring under.

I've been running spring over for a while now. Is it more tippy.. sure but isn't everything lifted? Though this girl is heavy so I haven't actually had tipping issues. I've done jeeps, samurai's and trucks all spring over and this has been the best ride so far.

And I clear 37's without not a thing cut, makes me feel better about having the body stock.

Cheap and easy is spring over
If you want comfort ditch leafs and go coil.

But from experience a 74 with spring over and 37's I've not had a single issue with anything nor issues with tipping.

I want to go 40's and I have 3 inch leafs and shackles laying around. But I already don't fit in my garage haha


Do you mind sharing a few pics ?

Thanks
 
Let me know what you would like pics of (if you want specific) and I'll take them.

Oh and I can do 80 down the highway f need be. Tho I try not to

Just a few pics in general,I know how to make a soa setup I am just not sure how it looks on a 73,I lived for years in Europe but soa is illegal there so I have not seen 70's with it and my only concern is right now that it might be to tall for me ;-)
 
Some are older than others. Some with 38 swappers and some with my current 37 maxxis

In my driveway as of 2 mins ago
279159FD-E7A2-4268-9FDA-D4D0320A92B8_zpstaiigyvo.jpg


B5536E65-1FA7-430A-82F0-88388BD710EC_zps15mjamod.jpg
68A1B216-0FAE-4116-A64D-8BCD8C09A910_zpste3qtwoc.jpg

A9DC4790-EBCC-4FE5-BB7C-8630C9D6D74D_zpsqn8ehllx.jpg

3E2E9CF3-9CA8-4B0B-A318-79858B5E2F2B_zpsigiodffr.jpg
7E731E6B-29DC-4A48-9CBE-DE965CC0821C_zpsfaq86i7m.jpg
61337CA8-F896-4FBA-9EC7-B17324F45FA5_zpszzaego71.jpg


F82C284C-1543-41B8-A79D-69B563ADC449_zpszuuypeep.jpg


3D71C3FA-6898-4721-A4EC-F6A350F2C110_zpswif9ctin.jpg


0E536747-5751-4A9E-ADD4-6818728BF658_zpskgncqyfk.jpg


98AF7358-C842-4817-A279-C0090B7EAA85_zpsl4030jjc.jpg
 
Some are older than others. Some with 38 swappers and some with my current 37 maxxis

In my driveway as of 2 mins ago
279159FD-E7A2-4268-9FDA-D4D0320A92B8_zpstaiigyvo.jpg


B5536E65-1FA7-430A-82F0-88388BD710EC_zps15mjamod.jpg
68A1B216-0FAE-4116-A64D-8BCD8C09A910_zpste3qtwoc.jpg

A9DC4790-EBCC-4FE5-BB7C-8630C9D6D74D_zpsqn8ehllx.jpg

3E2E9CF3-9CA8-4B0B-A318-79858B5E2F2B_zpsigiodffr.jpg
7E731E6B-29DC-4A48-9CBE-DE965CC0821C_zpsfaq86i7m.jpg
61337CA8-F896-4FBA-9EC7-B17324F45FA5_zpszzaego71.jpg


F82C284C-1543-41B8-A79D-69B563ADC449_zpszuuypeep.jpg


3D71C3FA-6898-4721-A4EC-F6A350F2C110_zpswif9ctin.jpg


0E536747-5751-4A9E-ADD4-6818728BF658_zpskgncqyfk.jpg


98AF7358-C842-4817-A279-C0090B7EAA85_zpsl4030jjc.jpg

That looks very good and not to tall,are you using stock springs now and what did you do for steering,did you replaced the 70's pitman with a drop down from a 60 ?
 
Thanks for the pictures, @Cavalier2000. I am planning a similar set up but with ff 80 axles. Do you have any pictures of your modified crossmember? I am hoping that modifying the crossmember won't be necessary with my high pinion 80 front, but am not sure. Also, I really like how you cut out the rocker panels. Do you have any details or close up pictures on that?
 
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