62 V8 crawl box?

[chicago]

Are you sure you want to go with a 5.3?

Actually, NO im not 100% sure of anything that Im gonna be doing here with this except that Ill be doing a V8 of some sort...
Im basing the plans I have now off of the results of others here who have done the Vortec and have been happy with it. Additionaly, ive also heard that the performance is a little better with the Vortec.
Im not opposed to running a TBI set up at all, in fact, it seems that it would be moderately CHEAPER for the engine cost.
Im still in the "I know I want to do it, but what's the best route to go" phase of this build.

Ill be checking out your HC build, and thanks for the help!

Chicago

 

[sixty]

Sorry Chicago, my post was directed at the brokenparts the "thread jacker"

If you are doing the whole swap from the start, the vortecs are hard to beat out of the box since you can find them so cheap. When it comes to getting more performance out of them, the older gen 1 blocks are much cheaper to build. I like power so I would atleast go for the 6.0 and seriously consider the 8.1. (a few months back there was a great deal on an 8.1 over on pirate4x4)

TBI is definately cheaper, easier to work on and by the time you spend the money on the vortec harness and programming (if required), you could get a decent performance TBI engine with all of the compatability of gen 1 parts. If your happy with the performance of a stock vortec, then you would probably be better off going that route.

Either way I think you would be better off with a 4l60/4l60e.

 

[sixty]

As far as gearing, you take the low on the trans and multiply it by the low on the t-case & mulitiply it by the axle gears. With an auto, low gears are over rated, I ran 30:1 for years off road with my 700r4 and rarely did I ever need lower gears (I wheeled ALOT in some pretty rocky terrain). My brother has 70:1 in his fj40 with an sm420 and it definately needs lower gears. The main reason to do the crawler is that it only costs a little bit more than the straight adapter.

 

[LCOwner]

Since you're not daily driving your wagon I would consider a gen 1 V8 with TBI/TPI. You will have much less wiring to worry about with this setup and the replacement parts are very easy to find at you local Vatozone. As for power once you have a V8 you will wonder how you ever lived without it. The 225 to 300 hp you can get from these EFI systems should be plenty for a middle of the road all purpose 4x4.

 

[boots4]

The 203 is going to be a hard case to beat for cheap and bulletproof. When I took mine apart to setup the gears are bigger and beefier than the splitcase.

Gears don't need to be as deep with an auto because you get the torque multiplication factor with the t.converter. On average that is good for 1.8 to 2.5 for multiplication. So if you run a 4L60e 1st gear is 3.06, that means you'll have 3.06x2.0(203 doubler)x2.3(tc low rounded up)x4.11(diff ratio)x2.0(lets choose the middle ground for t.converter multiplication)=61.6. You'd have a crawl ratio of 62.

The standard good all around suggestions I found were 60 for autos and 100 for manuals. This is for a variety of trails that would need slow going at times and wheel speed at other times. If you have a torquey engine mated to an auto you won't even need that much.

 

[brokenparts]

Sorry Chicago, my post was directed at the brokenparts the "thread jacker"

If you are doing the whole swap from the start, the vortecs are hard to beat out of the box since you can find them so cheap. When it comes to getting more performance out of them, the older gen 1 blocks are much cheaper to build. I like power so I would atleast go for the 6.0 and seriously consider the 8.1. (a few months back there was a great deal on an 8.1 over on pirate4x4)

TBI is definately cheaper, easier to work on and by the time you spend the money on the vortec harness and programming (if required), you could get a decent performance TBI engine with all of the compatability of gen 1 parts. If your happy with the performance of a stock vortec, then you would probably be better off going that route.

Either way I think you would be better off with a 4l60/4l60e.

ah geez, ok ok.... which hardcore thread? I remember I had one going about propane and you had one about your one ton junk that I remember jacking it into a motor thread?... dang it I think I'll have to actually use that blasted search button thing-a-jig.

Chicago... if you spend alot of time offroad I HIGHLY recommend an auto. It just makes wheelin so much more enjoyable in my opinion. I think anything around 146:1 is good for manual. You can pretty much half that with an auto (50-60:1). I have the option of going to 120:1 with the 4.0 box and is an overkill with the auto but it sure is nice to have when I need (which is close to never). It's also a fun way to piss off the people behind you too.

 

[freds40]

I've always heard that 60:1 with an auto was the "happy" place. This is a very generalized statement. It depends on how you like to wheel. If you like to push your truck hard you might want less gearing. If you like to crawl you might want more gearing. You also have to take into account the torque convertor being used.
In my 40, I was @ 40:1 with an auto but because of the torque convertor, I could crawl pretty well or give it a little throttle and it would hook up and go. I also had no issues with the truck driving through the brakes.

Anyway, heres some of the options you have:

With a 4l60/203/splitcase/4.11 axle, you're looking @ 3.06*2*2.28*4.11= 57.35

Swap the 203 for a mini case and you end up @ 65.38

Put a 4.7 gear in the mini case and you have 134.77

 

[sixty]

ah geez, ok ok.... which hardcore thread? I remember I had one going about propane and you had one about your one ton junk that I remember jacking it into a motor thread?... dang it I think I'll have to actually use that blasted search button thing-a-jig.

Chicago... if you spend alot of time offroad I HIGHLY recommend an auto. It just makes wheelin so much more enjoyable in my opinion. I think anything around 146:1 is good for manual. You can pretty much half that with an auto (50-60:1). I have the option of going to 120:1 with the 4.0 box and is an overkill with the auto but it sure is nice to have when I need (which is close to never). It's also a fun way to piss off the people behind you too.

I was refering to my 1 ton junk thread which I should be updating soon with more pics and info here's a link for you https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/103209-fj60-1-ton-superduty-build.html I'll be posting what I am using for a VSS also. Its pretty simple, since TBI uses a DC signal.

When it comes to wheeling you cannot beat an auto, it is totally worth the extra effort and maintenance. I did alot of rock crawling with my 700r4 & splitcase at 30:1 and it was always controllable. I don't see myself using the double low from my 203 too often. The best part of the doubler is that the 203 is very easy to shift so it's the first one I use to go into low. I have no idea how easy the mini doubler is to shift.

 

[brokenparts]

the mini doubler is SUPER easy to shift. I have more trouble with the splitcase than I do with the toybox. I'd really think long and hard on what your long term plans are though. If you intend to leave it mostly toyota and not run too big of tires I would go the mini/toybox route. If you have BIGGER plans down the road with big horsepower/big tires/one ton axles... I'd go 4l60e/203/splitcase making the 203/205 easier with centered one ton junk down the road.

 

[chicago]

GREAT GREAT info here gents!
Thanks so much!
Well with the install of the V8 aaaand the SOA, 1/4 chop, lockers, bumper etc. etc. this is going to be a LIFE LONG rig...If I roll it, its getting chopped.
I dont plan on much bigger tires. Im on 35's right now, and the biggest I can forsee are 36/ 37's. To date, Ive not wanted for anything bigger.
Thanks for the break down of the gearing to put it into perspective.
Right now Im running the stock A440 tranny, and I have not had a desire to convert to manual EXCEPT for the low gearing options and to free up the HP's through the torque converter behind the 3F. I also have 4.88's in the diffs.
Im just gonna have to get on the horn with AA and Marlin and see what the damage is gonna be. Id like to run as deep gearing as I can even if I dont use it, BUT...Im a working stiff with bills, a mortgage and a wife who wants to redecorate...So as least I can get away with and still be good and functional will most likely be the best route at this juncture.
Sounds like the NP203, split t case with the 5.3 and 4l60 are going to be a pretty decent combo, correct?

Thanks again!
This has helped immensely!

Chicago

 

[brokenparts]

Sounds like the NP203, split t case with the 5.3 and 4l60 are going to be a pretty decent combo, correct?

Thanks again!
This has helped immensely!

Chicago

DOOOOOOO IT!!!!

 

[sixty]

I'd be more inclined to go with the 6.0 (& even consider the 8.1), but they can be quite a bit more $$. keep your eyes open and you might be able to find a deal. Look on car-parts.com also & you could really score even with shipping involved.

Don't forget to look into the adapter for the 4l60e to the 203 as well as year compatability of the Vortec ECM to the chosen 4l60e. The early 4 bolt 700r4/4l60E pattern is pretty simple to adapt using GM parts but I have no idea whats available for the 6 bolt pattern (97-up I believe)

 

[Mace]

8.1 would be cool, but I think you would want a 4l80E then..

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Chicago-I would convert to a manual tranny, NP4500 if you have $$$ and SM465 if you don't. Then you have more crawl box options. Even a Toyota 4 speed with toybox and split case would be great. A Toyota H55f + Toybox + Split case would be a great set up.

If you want to swap the rear axle to a centered one, then SM465 + Atlas + Rear D60 would be bullet proof and dead simple. I've always kind of wanted an Atlas, but it requires a lot of mods to a land Cruiser.

You sure you want to go with a V-8? You are not building a race car.

 

[CaliCruiser]

Yo Keith

I say go Vortec but consider a manual swap when you do the conversion. I haven't driven an auto/v8 combo, but I have driven a manual/toybox setup and it kicks ass. However, I imagine the auto would be nice for those long days on the trail when fatigue becomes an issue. Your welcome to drive my junk when we meet up for a day trip which is 225:1, won't be till the end-ish of May though.

Dylan

 

[chicago]

I'd be more inclined to go with the 6.0 (& even consider the 8.1), but they can be quite a bit more $$. keep your eyes open and you might be able to find a deal. Look on car-parts.com also & you could really score even with shipping involved.

Don't forget to look into the adapter for the 4l60e to the 203 as well as year compatability of the Vortec ECM to the chosen 4l60e. The early 4 bolt 700r4/4l60E pattern is pretty simple to adapt using GM parts but I have no idea whats available for the 6 bolt pattern (97-up I believe)

Advance adapters has an adapter to make the 6 bolt pattern into the square pattern.
After I read your post, I was digging through the lit. and saw what you were talking about...

Thanks for the tip on Car-parts.com. I hadnt seen that one before.

Chicago

 

[chicago]

Chicago-I would convert to a manual tranny, NP4500 if you have $$$ and SM465 if you don't. Then you have more crawl box options. Even a Toyota 4 speed with toybox and split case would be great. A Toyota H55f + Toybox + Split case would be a great set up.

If you want to swap the rear axle to a centered one, then SM465 + Atlas + Rear D60 would be bullet proof and dead simple. I've always kind of wanted an Atlas, but it requires a lot of mods to a land Cruiser.

You sure you want to go with a V-8? You are not building a race car.

Hey Andy,
Since Im up grading the HPs with the V8, Ill be sticking with the auto trans.
If I were gonna keep the F, then Id most likely swap the auto in for a manual.
As far as V8 swap is concerned...Its not something that I WANT to do necessarily, but the lack of power on the road is flat KILLING ME, and it limits the distances that Im willing to travel for runs in it.
Im not looking to go 100MPH, but I would like to do better than 35 MPH in 2nd gear revving 3.5-4K on the tach up a 6% grade.
Ive done EVERY MOD available to KILL the HP, I know...but now that its done it seems my only option from here is to keep building, or give up.
Seems that most people are very happy with their V8 conversions?
Just out of curosity, What is the reason for your skepticism?
Im open to ideas!

Chicago

 

[Cruiserdrew]

, What is the reason for your skepticism?
Im open to ideas!

Chicago

Mainly because I see the cruisers as recreational vehicles, not daily drivers. You can put up with slowness in something you only drive on trips. The 3FE is a good motor, you already own it, and all of the tech for making it a manual with lots of low gearing options are already worked out and available. I'm sure you'll love the SBC, but it's tons of work and significant expense. I don't see your FJ62 being your commuter for the next 10 years. Like most of us, you'll go wheel it 5-10 times a year, and for the that, the 3FE works fine. How far are you really going to go? I go to Dusy in my 40 and its way, way slower than your FJ62. Moab is easily doable with what you have, and that's probably the limit of where you might take it. If you want to go faster, get an 80 or a 100.

Remember that H42s are basically free. Your motor, with an H42 and a Toybox, will take you anywhere within a 2 day drive with no problem at all. Then you can crawl with the best of them. Have you seen Brett's FJ62 in action? It works great with a 3FE, H42, and toybox. Really a nice machine.

Now if your 3FE is dead, then swapping to an SBC is probably makes sense. You won't go much faster though, since you are limited by a primitive chassis and you'll break more parts.

Anyway, what ever you do, remember it's a hobby and it's supposed to be fun. So if you like the challenge of a SBC swap, then go for it and don't look back. If it's simply about function, though, you already have what you need.

 

[Mace]

I see the recreational fact as a reason to swap to a V8.

The manual and a toy box is a good option. But it is still pricy, and it still may leave Chicago wanting more.

V8 conversions are easy science now (unless you like to be difficult like me).

I would think that if you are only doing 5 to 10 trips a year in a rig you would want those trips to be as worthwile as possible.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Yo Keith

I say go Vortec but consider a manual swap when you do the conversion. I haven't driven an auto/v8 combo, but I have driven a manual/toybox setup and it kicks ass. However, I imagine the auto would be nice for those long days on the trail when fatigue becomes an issue. Your welcome to drive my junk when we meet up for a day trip which is 225:1, won't be till the end-ish of May though.

Dylan

Have you finished the toybox install on your H55 yet? If so, how is that on the trails?? The H55 has the lower first just the same as the H41 and it's got overdrive for highway travel.

Chicago, an H55 / toybox setup sounds like it would suit your needs without swapping the engine: costs less and gives a better final drive. That's gonna be the setup I'm shooting for, but I don't have as many places to crawl in the northeast as you guys do.