- Thread starter
- #101
60.
4Runner Calipers, T100 MC, Rotors and Backing Plate Eliminator install
- Thread starter Spike Strip
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I'm about to embark on this project on my '89 and I saw someone recommending upgrading to an FJ80 brake booster as well. Do you think this is a good idea?
ntsqd
technerd
Based on how the brakes work and feel on my '88 V6 4rnnr I would simply copy all of the parts on it (calipers, booster, m/c, rear wheel cyl size) over to a 60. No need to mess with using parts from other applications unless the pedal ratios between the two are different.
@Spike Strip - Thanks heaps for the write up. I'm just about to do both front swivels/bearings and a tidy up of front steering and suspension. Stumbled upon this and think I will do the same while it is all apart.
Out of curiosity, why would you go the 4runner MC over the T100? I've been looking for the last half hour to find the same T100 MC you used but they all come up with the sensor wire connector in the bottom of the reservoir, not with the wires feeding out the top.
Also, the kit you are referring to with the SS lines through Mark's, what exactly was included in that kit? Having a look on his site and can't seem to see it. Have the cruiser booked in a few weeks ahead and am getting someone else to carry out most the work as I have time constraints, will need to order parts internationally and so I'm trying to source it all ASAP.
Thanks again for the write up, this is gold.
Out of curiosity, why would you go the 4runner MC over the T100? I've been looking for the last half hour to find the same T100 MC you used but they all come up with the sensor wire connector in the bottom of the reservoir, not with the wires feeding out the top.
Also, the kit you are referring to with the SS lines through Mark's, what exactly was included in that kit? Having a look on his site and can't seem to see it. Have the cruiser booked in a few weeks ahead and am getting someone else to carry out most the work as I have time constraints, will need to order parts internationally and so I'm trying to source it all ASAP.
Thanks again for the write up, this is gold.
- Thread starter
- #105
At the time I did this, I didn't know the 4R MC was 15/16" or something like that, but a fraction smaller bore than the 1" T100 MC. Using the 4R calipers with the 4R MC just gets it closer to whatever spec Toyota engineers were after. ntsqd has posted the mechanics and mathematics of the ratios if you want to search for his answers.
And FWIW, the T100 MC I've been using works fine. Just saying had I known about the 4R MC size at the time, I prolly would have gone that route. Don't recall where the sensor is on the 4R MC.
Mark's kit had the backing plate delete ring and very good quality DOT SS brake lines. I believe Mark now has an $80 min on shipping. Many vendors carry the Backing plate eliminators, but Mark has the brake line made for his shop and to his specs.
Call him 818-953-9230
Oh, I see you're in Oz... You will probably have to source locally, or make the rings by cutting down the backing plate, or just leaving the backing plate alone.
And FWIW, the T100 MC I've been using works fine. Just saying had I known about the 4R MC size at the time, I prolly would have gone that route. Don't recall where the sensor is on the 4R MC.
Mark's kit had the backing plate delete ring and very good quality DOT SS brake lines. I believe Mark now has an $80 min on shipping. Many vendors carry the Backing plate eliminators, but Mark has the brake line made for his shop and to his specs.
Call him 818-953-9230
Oh, I see you're in Oz... You will probably have to source locally, or make the rings by cutting down the backing plate, or just leaving the backing plate alone.
ntsqd
technerd
It's probably in "Comments on Brakes" if its not in this thread.
ntsqd
technerd
Every pre-made Braided SS hose that I've seen has a tiny little tube in the hose end between the actual end and the crimped barrel. Should be extremely easy to break those w/o trying too hard. That is why I've always made my own from screw-together hose ends and bulk hose. I also order one extra of every unique type of fitting and enough extra hose to make up the longest hose on the truck. Those spares go in a sealed bag and stay with the truck. I've never had to make up hose in the field, but I could. No idea about rules compliance over there, so no idea if that's a road legal option.
What do you consider upper SOCAL?
ntsqd
technerd
Ventura County.
Ah. I see. A bit north of me. Maybe you can answer this question. What year 4Runner calipers and MC do I need to use to upgrade the 60. Also. Since I’m lifted about 4” and I already have the longer braided SS lines from MAF or SOR, are they already long enough? Thanks brother.
93-95 T100 MC and Booster (non-abs) for sure. 93 and up 2nd gen 4runner front calipers ($25 ea at junk yard here in SoCal).
If you have rear disk brakes then 93-97 FZJ80 master cylinder.
A good read:
Toyota 4x4 Brake Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Specs - Roundforge
If you have rear disk brakes then 93-97 FZJ80 master cylinder.
A good read:
Toyota 4x4 Brake Master Cylinder and Brake Booster Specs - Roundforge
ntsqd
technerd
If the brake hoses are long enough now, and you aren't changing the routing (i.e. still have the tube btwn the caliper and the hose or have already deleted the tube) then the hoses you have are fine.
I disagree on the MC choice. I think the calipers, booster and MC should all come from the same donor. So if you're going to use 2nd gen V6 4rnnr calipers then also use the 2nd gen's MC & booster. Mixing and matching is fine IF you have a specific goal and know what the trade-offs are and are prepared to have to pull it back apart to change it. Just because others have used some particular combo of mixed and matched parts doesn't mean that you're going to like that combo. Brakes are too subjective for that. For a "bolt it on and it works" scenario use parts from all the same donor.
& BTW, being able to lock the brakes is over-rated. Not to say that you shouldn't be able to, just that it should be near the outer edge of the performance envelope. Best possible stopping does not happen with the brakes locked. Best possible stopping happens *just* before the brakes lock.
I think a good read is this: Comments on brakes, but I might be biased.
The problem with saying "the best MC and booster is... " is that the writer and the reader both have no idea what calipers are going to be used with that combo or on what vehicle (specifically what the pedal ratio of the chosen vehicle is). Is it the best when used with a CUCV D60's calipers under an Xcab Mini or the best when used with the stock FJ60 calipers under a stock FJ60? That is a crucial part of the equation that can not be left out or ignored.
I disagree on the MC choice. I think the calipers, booster and MC should all come from the same donor. So if you're going to use 2nd gen V6 4rnnr calipers then also use the 2nd gen's MC & booster. Mixing and matching is fine IF you have a specific goal and know what the trade-offs are and are prepared to have to pull it back apart to change it. Just because others have used some particular combo of mixed and matched parts doesn't mean that you're going to like that combo. Brakes are too subjective for that. For a "bolt it on and it works" scenario use parts from all the same donor.
& BTW, being able to lock the brakes is over-rated. Not to say that you shouldn't be able to, just that it should be near the outer edge of the performance envelope. Best possible stopping does not happen with the brakes locked. Best possible stopping happens *just* before the brakes lock.
I think a good read is this: Comments on brakes, but I might be biased.
The problem with saying "the best MC and booster is... " is that the writer and the reader both have no idea what calipers are going to be used with that combo or on what vehicle (specifically what the pedal ratio of the chosen vehicle is). Is it the best when used with a CUCV D60's calipers under an Xcab Mini or the best when used with the stock FJ60 calipers under a stock FJ60? That is a crucial part of the equation that can not be left out or ignored.
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The Rockcrawling Manx is absolutely correct. without a lot of testing, grab everything from the same truck.
As an example, My 40 has D60 1 ton front brakes, 3/4 ton rear brakes, a mini dual diaphram booster and a chevy 1 ton master cylinder (1 5/16"). It's stupid how easily the brakes lock up. I'd really prefer a more balanced system but it's a crawler and does not really need specific brakes, only brakes that work..
As an example, My 40 has D60 1 ton front brakes, 3/4 ton rear brakes, a mini dual diaphram booster and a chevy 1 ton master cylinder (1 5/16"). It's stupid how easily the brakes lock up. I'd really prefer a more balanced system but it's a crawler and does not really need specific brakes, only brakes that work..
All good info can you tell me what year 4 runners V6 to look for please.If the brake hoses are long enough now, and you aren't changing the routing (i.e. still have the tube btwn the caliper and the hose or have already deleted the tube) then the hoses you have are fine.
I disagree on the MC choice. I think the calipers, booster and MC should all come from the same donor. So if you're going to use 2nd gen V6 4rnnr calipers then also use the 2nd gen's MC & booster. Mixing and matching is fine IF you have a specific goal and know what the trade-offs are and are prepared to have to pull it back apart to change it. Just because others have used some particular combo of mixed and matched parts doesn't mean that you're going to like that combo. Brakes are too subjective for that. For a "bolt it on and it works" scenario use parts from all the same donor.
& BTW, being able to lock the brakes is over-rated. Not to say that you shouldn't be able to, just that it should be near the outer edge of the performance envelope. Best possible stopping does not happen with the brakes locked. Best possible stopping happens *just* before the brakes lock.
I think a good read is this: Comments on brakes, but I might be biased.
The problem with saying "the best MC and booster is... " is that the writer and the reader both have no idea what calipers are going to be used with that combo or on what vehicle (specifically what the pedal ratio of the chosen vehicle is). Is it the best when used with a CUCV D60's calipers under an Xcab Mini or the best when used with the stock FJ60 calipers under a stock FJ60? That is a crucial part of the equation that can not be left out or ignored.
Perfect, thank you. When was the last year of the 2nd gen 4 runner. I guess I can look that up.
That’s what I was thinking. Hitting a youpick. If I find one, I need to strip and retain everything pertaining to the calipers, MC and booster.
Would you personally use the T100 or 4rnr? Or are they identical? Guessing they are ident.
Hi. I enjoyed reading this thread. I want to upgrade the front discs on my 77 FJ40.
But I’m confused about what I actually need to do and purchase.
Can you walk me through the parts list (and vendors), and tell me anything else I need to know about, like brake lines, master cylinder, proportioning valve and the thing about replacing the studs?
Much appreciated.
Paul
ntsqd
technerd
My advise is to buy everything as a "matched set" from a first gen V6 4rnnr: Calipers, M/C, & Booster. Not sure about the rotors, I *think* that you need to use FJ60 rotors to get the required rotor to caliper alignment. The hodge-podge of mixing and matching M/C's, Booster, and calipers can result in something great and it can result in something not so great. By buying the 3 main parts from one application you get the same brake feel and power as that application. As it happens my all stock '88 V6 4rnnr has the best feeling and power brakes of any Toyota truck that I've ever driven. Had I known that before I'd have put those same brakes on my FJ-60 and on my old '84 Xcab 4x4.
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Read this thread it may be helpful to you. The info is there
4Runner Calipers, T100 MC, Rotors and Backing Plate Eliminator install
Had a bad rt. caliper so decided to take the plunge and install 4Runner calipers, new rotors, and the backing plate eliminators I got from Mark Algazy of marksoffroad.net . Purchased Reman Toyota Calipers for '95 4Runner V6 - Part # 47750-35090-84, and 47730-35090-84 (Rh, Lh) New caliper...
forum.ih8mud.com
- Thread starter
- #120
I would follow ntsqd advice, using the matched components from a V6 4Runner.
If I had to do my conversion over, the one thing I would change is NOT using the 1" and use the matched MC from the 4Runner which I believe was 15/16" or something just a fraction smaller than 1" .... With the 1" MC, truck stops fine, very well in fact, but pedal is a tad too stiff. Hard on the leg after a long day on and off the fat pedal.
You might want to ask in the 40-section on what others do, not sure this info is applicable to that vintage FJ40.
Good luck.
