Thanks! I have found that CarQuest has some great prices on this stuff. They price match and usually BEAT competitors prices. I was able to get the 2 calipers, 2 new rotors, and premium-grade pads fo $149. 
4runner brake install *pics* (1 Viewer)
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Good price... Just make sure the calipers have the S13WB casting and you're good.
Also, bleed 'em real well -- I was probably a bit impatient with mine and just thru money at it for the MC... You might be able to get it firm enough for your liking.
Your rig is lookin' great, btw.
Also, bleed 'em real well -- I was probably a bit impatient with mine and just thru money at it for the MC... You might be able to get it firm enough for your liking.
Your rig is lookin' great, btw.
Someone mite correct me here but i was always under the impresion they were built on the same platform. Most parts seem to be interchangable.
Some notes on my install experiences
After reading this thread I decided to go ahead and dive in with the brake and Master cylinder swap. Here's a breakdown of what I bought and where.
-Calipers from CarParts.com - A1 Cardone Toyota 4Runner
Brake Caliper p/n 17-1600 and 17-1601 (this is a "fully loaded" caliper) - $69.42 Core Charge, and $69.42 for each Caliper.
-Master Cylinder CarParts.com - Centric Toyota T-100 p/n 130.44707 - $90.25 (this is new, after market Taiwan made).
-Residual Pressure Valve (RPV), Red Anodized, 10 psi, Drum Brakes, 1/8 in. NPT Female Inlet/Outlet, Each p/n WIL-260-3279 -$19.95 from Summit Racing.
-Brake Line Adapters for Plumbing the RPV (2)- 3/16"x 08" 4.7mm x 20.3 cm- Checkers auto parts - p/n PA-308 - $4.31 each (These lines replaced the stock lines running from the Master Cylinder to the Proportioning Valve).
A note on the installation:
Fitting the new calipers was relatively easy - just had to modify the dust shield using my sawzall. I went ahead and replaced the soft brake lines that run from axle to wheel, using Stainless ones from Specter Offroad p/n 086-30K-S, I left it off the list above because it's really optional - my old lines were worn, cracking and ugly.
The Master cylinder was easy to fit, I had to splice the fluid level sensor plug fitting from my old master onto the cap of the new master - easy. The challenge I ran into involved fitting the hard lines to the master - a little bit of bending and cursing trying to get the ports lined up. I did bench bleed the MC before fitting it.
I didn't have the parts for the RPV at this stage and I wanted to test the system - so I left the RPV out of the loop and bled the system. The truck stopped fine, though the pedal needed pumping to stay firm. At Checkers I tracked down the two hard brake lines with the correct fittings to plumb in the RPV - and finished the job, giving it an additional bleed to be safe. This time the pedal stayed firm, no sinking and stopping power is noticeably better.
After inspecting my old hardware I discovered a bad piston in my right caliper - the work was more than an upgrade it was a repair too. I had been having serious issues when braking hard - the tail would lock up and slide to the left, while the nose pulled right - pretty disconcerting. Now I get fairly even braking, a little pull to the left, and its seems like the rear brakes lock before the front. Having an auto locker in the rear adds a bit of a twist (no pun intended) to hard stops.
Thanks to all those whose input helped me through this installation - I hope my info is of use to you too.
Below are some images of the finished product.
After reading this thread I decided to go ahead and dive in with the brake and Master cylinder swap. Here's a breakdown of what I bought and where.
-Calipers from CarParts.com - A1 Cardone Toyota 4Runner
Brake Caliper p/n 17-1600 and 17-1601 (this is a "fully loaded" caliper) - $69.42 Core Charge, and $69.42 for each Caliper.
-Master Cylinder CarParts.com - Centric Toyota T-100 p/n 130.44707 - $90.25 (this is new, after market Taiwan made).
-Residual Pressure Valve (RPV), Red Anodized, 10 psi, Drum Brakes, 1/8 in. NPT Female Inlet/Outlet, Each p/n WIL-260-3279 -$19.95 from Summit Racing.
-Brake Line Adapters for Plumbing the RPV (2)- 3/16"x 08" 4.7mm x 20.3 cm- Checkers auto parts - p/n PA-308 - $4.31 each (These lines replaced the stock lines running from the Master Cylinder to the Proportioning Valve).
A note on the installation:
Fitting the new calipers was relatively easy - just had to modify the dust shield using my sawzall. I went ahead and replaced the soft brake lines that run from axle to wheel, using Stainless ones from Specter Offroad p/n 086-30K-S, I left it off the list above because it's really optional - my old lines were worn, cracking and ugly.
The Master cylinder was easy to fit, I had to splice the fluid level sensor plug fitting from my old master onto the cap of the new master - easy. The challenge I ran into involved fitting the hard lines to the master - a little bit of bending and cursing trying to get the ports lined up. I did bench bleed the MC before fitting it.
I didn't have the parts for the RPV at this stage and I wanted to test the system - so I left the RPV out of the loop and bled the system. The truck stopped fine, though the pedal needed pumping to stay firm. At Checkers I tracked down the two hard brake lines with the correct fittings to plumb in the RPV - and finished the job, giving it an additional bleed to be safe. This time the pedal stayed firm, no sinking and stopping power is noticeably better.
After inspecting my old hardware I discovered a bad piston in my right caliper - the work was more than an upgrade it was a repair too. I had been having serious issues when braking hard - the tail would lock up and slide to the left, while the nose pulled right - pretty disconcerting. Now I get fairly even braking, a little pull to the left, and its seems like the rear brakes lock before the front. Having an auto locker in the rear adds a bit of a twist (no pun intended) to hard stops.
Thanks to all those whose input helped me through this installation - I hope my info is of use to you too.Below are some images of the finished product.
This is the most goofy upgrade I've seen on LC's(not your job, but in general), because there's nothing wrong with the stock set up! I could see, if the stock set up was 2 piston calipers. But this upgrade is not really needed, as you get very little extra pad with the later calipers.
Good pads and fluid on the stock system will give plenty of brake power. I can skid the front wheels with the stock system. I'm using Axxis(PBR) metal masters and Castrol LMA/GT-4 fluid.
Good pads and fluid on the stock system will give plenty of brake power. I can skid the front wheels with the stock system. I'm using Axxis(PBR) metal masters and Castrol LMA/GT-4 fluid.
Benjamin-
I don't disagree that the stock brakes when properly serviced and maintained provide good stopping power- hence the upgrade seems goofy for the small gains in braking ability.
My desire for slightly bigger pads and stronger braking came about while reading other's experiences while towing small to medium loads. As my intention is to tow a heavier trailer (Ford F-150 Bed w/camper shell) with significant gear and therefore weight, I opted to go for the small but helpful gain while simultaneously replacing worn parts- i.e., 330,000 miles of use on the original components. As I mentioned in my commentary- my driver's side caliper had a stuck piston, and the MC was at the very least in need of a rebuild. I have limited space and tools to work with so... This was my solution. Lacking any hard evidence on the real world gains achieved by stepping up to the 4-runner calipers and MC - e.g. Stopping distance measurements, brake fade characteristics etc, subjective measures prevail- it 'feels' like I'm better able to stop my big heavy rig. If anybody bothered to take the time and measure performance of stock vs upgrade , please speak up
I don't disagree that the stock brakes when properly serviced and maintained provide good stopping power- hence the upgrade seems goofy for the small gains in braking ability.
My desire for slightly bigger pads and stronger braking came about while reading other's experiences while towing small to medium loads. As my intention is to tow a heavier trailer (Ford F-150 Bed w/camper shell) with significant gear and therefore weight, I opted to go for the small but helpful gain while simultaneously replacing worn parts- i.e., 330,000 miles of use on the original components. As I mentioned in my commentary- my driver's side caliper had a stuck piston, and the MC was at the very least in need of a rebuild. I have limited space and tools to work with so... This was my solution. Lacking any hard evidence on the real world gains achieved by stepping up to the 4-runner calipers and MC - e.g. Stopping distance measurements, brake fade characteristics etc, subjective measures prevail- it 'feels' like I'm better able to stop my big heavy rig. If anybody bothered to take the time and measure performance of stock vs upgrade , please speak up
I fully understand(and agree in your case), and believe me! I've done my share of brake system upgrades. On my 85 pu I installed LC disk over a decade ago.
I just feel that if an fj60 owner has a stock brake system in good working order, He'd benefit greatly by upgrading to high quality rotors and pads.
Better rotors will dissipate more heat, while better pads will resist fade.
But like you said, if your starting from zero, than why not upgrade. Althoe I would not want to grind my calipers.
I just feel that if an fj60 owner has a stock brake system in good working order, He'd benefit greatly by upgrading to high quality rotors and pads.
Better rotors will dissipate more heat, while better pads will resist fade.
But like you said, if your starting from zero, than why not upgrade. Althoe I would not want to grind my calipers.
Benjamin-
I don't disagree that the stock brakes when properly serviced and maintained provide good stopping power- hence the upgrade seems goofy for the small gains in braking ability.
My desire for slightly bigger pads and stronger braking came about while reading other's experiences while towing small to medium loads. As my intention is to tow a heavier trailer (Ford F-150 Bed w/camper shell) with significant gear and therefore weight, I opted to go for the small but helpful gain while simultaneously replacing worn parts- i.e., 330,000 miles of use on the original components. As I mentioned in my commentary- my driver's side caliper had a stuck piston, and the MC was at the very least in need of a rebuild. I have limited space and tools to work with so... This was my solution. Lacking any hard evidence on the real world gains achieved by stepping up to the 4-runner calipers and MC - e.g. Stopping distance measurements, brake fade characteristics etc, subjective measures prevail- it 'feels' like I'm better able to stop my big heavy rig. If anybody bothered to take the time and measure performance of stock vs upgrade , please speak up
ntsqd
technerd
Extra pad area means nothing to braking power. That is counter-intuitive, but it is the physics of the system.
Extra pad volume means a lot to pad life, so there is a small advantage to a larger pad area in that regard.
The percentage gain in hydraulic leverage with both the calipers and the master cylinder swapped is minimal, but if it results in more driver confidence in the brakes then so be it. The one thing that I would caution against is that a hard or firm pedal, while very confidence inspiring, is not actually better stopping power.
Extra pad volume means a lot to pad life, so there is a small advantage to a larger pad area in that regard.
The percentage gain in hydraulic leverage with both the calipers and the master cylinder swapped is minimal, but if it results in more driver confidence in the brakes then so be it. The one thing that I would caution against is that a hard or firm pedal, while very confidence inspiring, is not actually better stopping power.
I put a booster from a 95 4 runner leaving the stock components the same and the difference is night and day. The new booster makes it extremely easy to lock everything up if I wanted to. Since I have a v8 i'm not sure about the vacuum numbers and if that plays a part in the better braking or not but it is a huge difference. I really notice it in 4low as well.
There seems to be a wide range of opinion on the actual value of this swap, I am thinking of it less as an upgrade than as an eclectic replacement. In truth I wish I had known the dynamics of this system better before making the swap, I might have opted for better rotors and pads, and simply used rebuilt LC calipers and MC. As it turns out, I am still satisfied with having swapped old for newer. Thanks to all for the input.
That's a very helpful bit of information. Thanks, Steve.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
now since it's back to life this thread .. anyone can compare 80 series MC with the T-100 MC performance ?
Sorry to hijack but I'm taking the chance to ask a few questions about a doubt because I've been reading a lot about MC swaps and I would like to know some things since today I bought an 80series MC
So here we go: I compared the factory MC of the 60 and the 80 in my toyota dealer and it seems to fit perfect! so I bought the 92-94 80series MC...
1. Am I going to see any improves in my braking?
2. Is it going to work perfectly
3. How can I do with the original plug and the new one to make it work for the alert of the low fluid level. my 80series MC have the connector in the container.
Thank's and sorry about my bad writting
So here we go: I compared the factory MC of the 60 and the 80 in my toyota dealer and it seems to fit perfect! so I bought the 92-94 80series MC...
1. Am I going to see any improves in my braking?
2. Is it going to work perfectly
3. How can I do with the original plug and the new one to make it work for the alert of the low fluid level. my 80series MC have the connector in the container.
Thank's and sorry about my bad writting
ntsqd
technerd
Lots has been written on this, some of it by me. Increasing the M/C bore size will make the pedal more firm while reducing the system pressure at any given pedal force. Reducing the system pressure reduces that actual brake effectiveness, but the firm pedal is more highly sought after and is often perceived as being "better brakes."
My parts book shows the 60 bore size to be 7/8", the 80 bore size to be 1" and the T-100 to be either 1" or 1-1/16" depending on the year.
My parts book shows the 60 bore size to be 7/8", the 80 bore size to be 1" and the T-100 to be either 1" or 1-1/16" depending on the year.
ntsqd, please correct me here if I'm misunderstanding, but your statement above is true if you do not, also, change out the calipers to 4R calipers? If you do go to the larger 4R calipers, with larger pistons, don't you then compensate for the increased MC bore to 1" ?
That being asked, my subjective experience, after a couple of years now with the 1" MC and 4R calipers is the pedal pressure required is indeed noticeably more than stock, but stopping is improved. Of course, that could be simply because I had crap brakes before the swap...
ntsqd
technerd
I worked it all out here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/256361-comments-brakes-4.html#post6458144
60 series Front Caliper upgrade.
Right i have just about wasted a whole week at work on reserching this and still do not quite know if my steel wheels will fit, but pretty sure they wont with the S13's and might with the S12's.
Basically an up grade of the front wheel callipers on my FJ62 starts with me knowing what i have.
I compared to others on the net and it looks like i have a 7/8 inch bore Master cylinder. 4Runners went to 15/16' and 1' bores because they had bigger caliper pistons.
My calipers are marked (when looking through the wheel) S12+8 and i have ventilated rotors (wider rotors).
According to others on different forums, the size of the pistons in the calipers are:
S12+8 can be solid or ventilated with 2 pistons 43mm and 34mm and the distance out from the wheel flange it sits is 20mm
S12W has 2 pistons of equal size, 43mm with the same distance from the wheel flange of 20mm
S13W E or B has 2 pistons of equal size 45mm with 199mm break pads
S13W L or G has 2 pistons of equal size 45mm with 231mm break pads
The S13W's also have a wider disc about 6mm which is put on the wheel flange side, making the wheel a special fit to accept the caliper in behind sitting out 28mm from the wheel flange. This is why i dont think i will be able to fit normal steelies to the hub if i went these and i would also need a bigger Master cyl. They do say a (1/4inch)64mm spacer will allow the wheel to fit but thats not what i am looking for.
I think i will go for the S12W as i dont want to get another MC and i dont like the thought of raising the line pressures with a double booster. So if i bring the current size of 34mm (area 908sqmm) up to 43mm (area 1452sqmm), thats a 38% gain in pressure on those two pistons. So over all with a rough calculation i think i will get a 19% gain in performance with a 19% drop in my pedal hight, which is a lot of lost pedal.
There seems to be a lot out there on Hilux and 4runner but not a lot of Cruisers have had a go and i found alot dont mention the calipers actually used on each build.
If anyone has done this to their 60, without a Master cylinder upgrade, let me know also if you have steelies fitted.
These are just some of the information i looked up:
http://www.yotatech.com/f2/my-231mm-tun ... de-249984/
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t ... otors.html
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/article ... grade.aspx
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/snd27 ... design.pdf
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/skyvi ... 02_seq.pdf
http://kdxuzzx.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1780820
Right i have just about wasted a whole week at work on reserching this and still do not quite know if my steel wheels will fit, but pretty sure they wont with the S13's and might with the S12's.
Basically an up grade of the front wheel callipers on my FJ62 starts with me knowing what i have.
I compared to others on the net and it looks like i have a 7/8 inch bore Master cylinder. 4Runners went to 15/16' and 1' bores because they had bigger caliper pistons.
My calipers are marked (when looking through the wheel) S12+8 and i have ventilated rotors (wider rotors).
According to others on different forums, the size of the pistons in the calipers are:
S12+8 can be solid or ventilated with 2 pistons 43mm and 34mm and the distance out from the wheel flange it sits is 20mm
S12W has 2 pistons of equal size, 43mm with the same distance from the wheel flange of 20mm
S13W E or B has 2 pistons of equal size 45mm with 199mm break pads
S13W L or G has 2 pistons of equal size 45mm with 231mm break pads
The S13W's also have a wider disc about 6mm which is put on the wheel flange side, making the wheel a special fit to accept the caliper in behind sitting out 28mm from the wheel flange. This is why i dont think i will be able to fit normal steelies to the hub if i went these and i would also need a bigger Master cyl. They do say a (1/4inch)64mm spacer will allow the wheel to fit but thats not what i am looking for.
I think i will go for the S12W as i dont want to get another MC and i dont like the thought of raising the line pressures with a double booster. So if i bring the current size of 34mm (area 908sqmm) up to 43mm (area 1452sqmm), thats a 38% gain in pressure on those two pistons. So over all with a rough calculation i think i will get a 19% gain in performance with a 19% drop in my pedal hight, which is a lot of lost pedal.
There seems to be a lot out there on Hilux and 4runner but not a lot of Cruisers have had a go and i found alot dont mention the calipers actually used on each build.
If anyone has done this to their 60, without a Master cylinder upgrade, let me know also if you have steelies fitted.
These are just some of the information i looked up:
http://www.yotatech.com/f2/my-231mm-tun ... de-249984/
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t ... otors.html
http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/article ... grade.aspx
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/snd27 ... design.pdf
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/skyvi ... 02_seq.pdf
http://kdxuzzx.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1780820
Can someone elaborate on the residual pressure valve for the rear of the truck. I also drive a 62 and something has been swapped out by a PO. either the master cylinder or the boaster. The way I know this is the mental lines from the master cylinder are no longer mounted to the firewall because they have been moved forward to attach to the master cylinder. I have been having an issue that feels like my back brakes are out of adjustment. I adjusted them a couple months ago and everything felt great. Braking and the ebrake. But it has returned to the poor braking and poor ebrake performance. If there is a spring that retracts the shoes and if I have a non stock MC. This could be my problem!
Cruiser Jimmy
Moderator
From Summit's page details:
"...With drum brakes, 10 lb. valves are used to compensate for return spring tension in the drums."
but sounds like you still have air in the system or the adjuster assembly/automatic adjust level arms are malfunctioning. If the rear brake system is not operating as designed then I could see the adjusters backing in from the spring pressure and thus backing the shoes off the drums.
