4BD1T into FJ60 Fit Issues

[Dazed]

Clint, haven't heard this idea yet. What will the body lift do? I have never looked into them. Would it raise the engine away from the axle? What are the disadvantages?

I am going to get the truck put back together and then take it to a shop for some help.

Wheeling, I looked at these possibilities and ideas when I was putting it all together and the current setup kept coming up as the best option. The main issues were with the diameter of the brake booster, which didn't change on an 80 series, and that the turbo needs and adapter plate from the manifold meaning it needs to be pushed off the manifold and into the brake booster. The other problem with rotating it so the intake faces forward is the lack of room between the AC compressor and the intake....same idea as at the firewall.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Clint, haven't heard this idea yet. What will the body lift do? I have never looked into them. Would it raise the engine away from the axle? What are the disadvantages?

I am going to get the truck put back together and then take it to a shop for some help.

Wheeling, I looked at these possibilities and ideas when I was putting it all together and the current setup kept coming up as the best option. The main issues were with the diameter of the brake booster, which didn't change on an 80 series, and that the turbo needs and adapter plate from the manifold meaning it needs to be pushed off the manifold and into the brake booster. The other problem with rotating it so the intake faces forward is the lack of room between the AC compressor and the intake....same idea as at the firewall.

A body lift does just that lifts to body up off the frame X amount of inches you pick, have seen them from 1-3". It does nothing to the engine in the frame just moves the body up so you have more room to lift the engine in your case. I 1" lift maybe all you need. The only down side to them is they move the COG (same as a normal lift) up a bit but I cant see 1" making any difference.

I did not realize you had a manifold adapter, depending on the thickness of it that could indeed be a problem. I think the later FJ60's have a smaller booster as well, I do not think the diameter of them changes much if at all though. Sounds like you have very limited options, the body list sounds like a good way to go in your case.

 

[Dazed]

I will check when I get home, but thinking more, a body lift may not help. The place where there is an issue is a vertical wall that I have already hammered in. So moving it up an inch would only move me to a different part of the wall, no expose a more open area.

Another option may be a custom exhaust manifold but that seems like a overkill and it may not work anyway with the space between the back of the AC compressor (and alternator, which is even less, depending on where you are vertically) and the firewall.

I still like the idea of boxing out the firewall.

 

[The Phoenician]

just beware, body lifts tend to creak and squeak more.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

If the brake booster is a limiting factor, why not move to hydroboost? It's longer, but significantly shorter in diameter.

 

[Dazed]

Hydroboost was an option at one point, but, at the time I didn't want to make an adapter, which I ended up doing with that spacer. I would need to tap the power steering box...probably not too big of a deal. This truck has has a history of power steering issues (and seems to want to continue the trend with the current hastle).

The issue is still with the space/length/distance between the firewall and the AC compressor (or alternator). That space does not change on any of these ideas and the turbo with the intake and exhaust hoses must still fit in there.

 

[bluehawk]

Mitch, I'm getting ready to start fabing up motor mounts and trans mount. Do you think it would be better to move the two of them forward a few inches and then just have the drive shafts lengthened the same distance? I am using the same adapter you are but my diesel will be bone stock. Just about got the engine ready to go.​

 

[Dazed]

Mitch, I'm getting ready to start fabing up motor mounts and trans mount. Do you think it would be better to move the two of them forward a few inches and then just have the drive shafts lengthened the same distance? I am using the same adapter you are but my diesel will be bone stock. Just about got the engine ready to go.

I honestly don't know. I looked at moving it all forward when I was installing it, but I couldnt figure out a way to move the transmission mounts forward easily. Maybe if I looked at it more carefully I could have.

In thinking more while writing this, the headache of figuring it out and doing that work now will probably save you down the line. I think I was even told that in this thread by a couple people.

Maybe I should consider that now. I just remember moving the tranny forward only a couple inches seem really tough. Four or five, yes, easy. Let me know if you have any ideas.

 

[longbow]

I highly recommend moving the engine further forward when doing a 4BD1/2T conversion. I didn't when I did mine on my 60 and it has been an annoyance ever since. If I had to do it all over again, I would definitely moved it forward and dealt with the driveshaft length issues and be done. When I did my conversion in my 40 I made sure to move it forward and went with hydroboost and it makes the engine bay location much, much better! Also, you don't have to tap your steering box to go hydroboost, you just run the pressure line to the hydroboost unit first and then it has an outlet that you then route to your steering box and then you just connect both return lines to a y and then return to your reservoir. Yes, you have to make custom power steering lines, but the pain of that is overcome by the ease of much less headaches in regards to engine placement and routing of intake and exhaust piping. Plus, the hydroboost is so much better for braking that I can't believe it! I am so much happier with the braking of my 40 with hydroboost that I am eventually going to convert my 60 to it as well because it is just more powerful and has better pedal feel. The other added benefit is it opens up and enormous amount of high power alternator options, rather than only a handful that have a vacuum unit on the back. Yes, moving tranny crossmember mounts on the frame can be a pain, but once it is laid out and fabbed up and welded in, you will have years and years of happiness with the truck and have no regrets.

Just my .02c

Don

 

[longbow]

Oh yeah, one more thing.

Going hydroboost and moving the engine forward also opens up your options down the road for upgraded turbos of many different sizes and designs. The added room around the firewall and brake booster make it so much easier to play with different turbos.

Don

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Also, you don't have to tap your steering box to go hydroboost, you just run the pressure line to the hydroboost unit first and then it has an outlet that you then route to your steering box and then you just connect both return lines to a y and then return to your reservoir.

Exactly, beat me to it!

Even better than using a y, since using a y in the return can cause foaming, use two returns in the power steering reservoir. Therefore, your high pressure out of the pump goes to the hydroboost unit, then high pressure to the steering box and both the hydroboost and steering box have low pressure returns to the PS reservoir.

 

[ntsqd]

Some guys have issues with going the 'T' route on the return, others do not. Do not know why, but if you 'T' it and are having bad behavior issues try switching which return is on the branch and which is on the leg of the 'T'. If that doesn't cure the problems then you'll need to go to two separate returns like GM uses on the OE H-B installs.

FWIW, if you do the install using the remote reservoir and Saginaw pump from a late 70's to mid 80's GM one ton with a big block, some of those (later models) already have the second return and those that don't are much easier to modify w/o worrying about contaminating the pump with metal chips.

 

[longbow]

Very good point Johnny C. and ntsqd. That is one thing that I forgot to mention as a lot of people have problems with the T return. I silver soldered together a long tapered Y for my return to avoid the back flow problems associated with a T return. This way both sides of the Y create a venturi to assist the other without inhibiting each other.

The 4BD1/2T engines all use a gear driven power steering pump in the front lower part of the passenger front of the engine. Most of us are using the factory Isuzu plastic reservoir because it has an nice internal filter screen system and is large enough for a lot of fluid like the GM style, but because it is plastic it is hard to modify for a second return. Ideally a reservoir with two returns would be the best for sure.

Don

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The 4BD1/2T engines all use a gear driven power steering pump in the front lower part of the passenger front of the engine. Most of us are using the factory Isuzu plastic reservoir because it has an nice internal filter screen system and is large enough for a lot of fluid like the GM style, but because it is plastic it is hard to modify for a second return. Ideally a reservoir with two returns would be the best for sure.

Don

I gotcha. 4BTs have gear driven saginaw pumps on the lower DS side of the motor. Due to the fact that it's a saginaw pump, it's super easy to swap out a reservoir that has two returns.

How long is the Y in your setup?

 

[Wheelingnoob]

May need to keep an eye out for a Hydroboost for my swap. Having a hard time finding a alternator that will put out more than 70A, freeing up a bit of room all round would probably be welcome once I get the motor into place too.

Just need to figure out how to get vacuum for the exhaust break.

Sorry for the derail, back on topic.

 

[Dazed]

There is currently a thread in 4btswaps in the Isuzu section on a higher output alternator. I am wanting and probably needing one.

I like the hydroboost idea and even have one on my garage floor. Need to not have my power steering pump feed line pinched first though!

For now, I dont think I will consider moving the engine forward...its a ton of work and I like the idea of not changing the drive train for reliability issues. Boxing the firewall is not unheard of, especially in hotrods and the like. I'm still not sure if I would do it differently than I have, I keep going back and forth to be honest.

Ps. Thanks everyone for this really excellent and constructive discussion! It doesn't seem to happen on other forums or other places...more people preaching other places.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

There is currently a thread in 4btswaps in the Isuzu section on a higher output alternator. I am wanting and probably needing one.

I like the hydroboost idea and even have one on my garage floor. Need to not have my power steering pump feed line pinched first though!

For now, I dont think I will consider moving the engine forward...its a ton of work and I like the idea of not changing the drive train for reliability issues. Boxing the firewall is not unheard of, especially in hotrods and the like. I'm still not sure if I would do it differently than I have, I keep going back and forth to be honest.

Ps. Thanks everyone for this really excellent and constructive discussion! It doesn't seem to happen on other forums or other places...more people preaching other places.

I wouldn't be afraid to cut into the firewall. With how low and back I placed my 4BT, I had to cut a big hole in my firewall / PS footwell to make room for my exhaust. I'm glad I did because the AC box fit back in with only minor trimming, the passenger lost 0 foot room and the exhaust doesn't hit anything!

I will be the first to admit that I thought "what the hell have I done" when I cut a big ass hole in the new body I just put on the year prior, but it all turned out well in the end:

Last piece of the patch:

 

[Wheelingnoob]

There is currently a thread in 4btswaps in the Isuzu section on a higher output alternator. I am wanting and probably needing one.

Yeah I started that thread on the higher output alt in 4btswaps. Waiting to see what comes of it but thinking this hydrobost and a simple high output GM alternator would be easier and possibly cheaper in the end.

 

[bluehawk]

Mitch, did you use 3"x6" tubing cut at 40 degrees like Doug720 did on his motor mounts? Thinking of making mounts like his but still not 100% sure. Can you post up some pictures of your mounts for me. Thanks for your post, as it has helped me make some decisions on my build.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Mitch, did you use 3"x6" tubing cut at 40 degrees like Doug720 did on his motor mounts? Thinking of making mounts like his but still not 100% sure. Can you post up some pictures of your mounts for me. Thanks for your post, as it has helped me make some decisions on my build.

Post #79 talked about it a bit.