Builds 4508 - Ultra4 Racetruck Build (2 Viewers)

[snivilous]

Am I right that you couldn't go to 3-link and stay in the stock class?

The stock class rules essentially say you have to use the same shock and spring configuration as stock, a 3-link would be allowed but coilovers wouldn't. My main issue with the stock rules is:
-shocks are super limited (no coilovers or bypasses) and hydro bumps aren't even allowed
-body has to be essentially unmodified which makes fitting things annoying at best
-and I have less issue with, but 35s are max size

 

[snivilous]

My girlfriend and I went for a little trip just to make sure everything was working and the truck ran great! High range feels a little underpowered, but I wasn't getting on it since the gears are brand new. Low range feels totally fine. She rubs in the rear when flexed, but that should be fixed next week! I'll let the photos do the rest of the talking!

EDIT: Hopefully these show up since my computer won't show them on the forum.

 

[ExpoMax]

My girlfriend and I went for a little trip just to make sure everything was working and the truck ran great! High range feels a little underpowered, but I wasn't getting on it since the gears are brand new. Low range feels totally fine. She rubs in the rear when flexed, but that should be fixed next week! I'll let the photos do the rest of the talking!

Looking siiick

 

[ReformedJeeper]

So this might be a dumb question, so bear with me. Seems you've had a hell of a time with your fueling system and fuel cell. Why not just stick with the OE gas tank, fuel pump, etc? Was there a requirement to move to a fuel cell? Seems like you've only picked up 6 gallons over stock (30 vs about 24 for the stock tank)?

Bad ass build, kudos to you for doing this before life slows things down (3 kids , wife, job, etc.).

 

[snivilous]

So this might be a dumb question, so bear with me. Seems you've had a hell of a time with your fueling system and fuel cell. Why not just stick with the OE gas tank, fuel pump, etc? Was there a requirement to move to a fuel cell? Seems like you've only picked up 6 gallons over stock (30 vs about 24 for the stock tank)?

Bad ass build, kudos to you for doing this before life slows things down (3 kids , wife, job, etc.).

Totally fair question! And you answered it, there's a requirement for a fuel cell. And despite all the issues with it, it's actually very convenient since accessing everything is literally right in the back of the truck and also opens up a lot of space on the bottom and moves the weight back a bit (albeit higher too). Having all the fuel lines, pump, filters, etc. right there is 100x nicer than having to open the hatch and reach down and screw around with everything in the OE tank; once the kinks are worked out I think it's a superior and far easier setup to work with!

 

[BlueCruiser84]

The 40s look awesome on those skinny wheels. I'm a sucker for the tall and narrow look though.

 

[snivilous]

Alright! I finally found all the photos from other people since I didn't take very many and wasn't able to get photos most of the time. So credit is given to my Mom/Dad, Lance, and James.

I drove down to St. George for Trail Hero last Wednesday. My codriver, Miles, and I had spent until midnight on Tuesday working on the truck. Got a harbor freight winch on, clearanced the rear wheel wells and lowered the rear bump stops (the cage is what limits the rear flex, with how narrow the OEM 4Runner wheels are when it flexs the tires hit the cage so that determined the full bump spot for now), clearanced the front which consisted mostly of beating the s*** out of everything with a sludge hammer, and a few other odds and ends. It turned out that Miles ended up cutting through a harness when he clearanced the front, so of course I go to load the truck on the trailer and it won't start--no spark. So I ghetto hook the harness back up and she finally fires thankfully, it would appear the headlight harness grounds are important even though literally nothing else in that leg of the wiring goes to anything. I was able to stay on schedule, albeit I ended up missing class which I had otherwise planned on going to. Got food with my girlfriend and met up with another truck and headed out!

I ended up getting to Sand Hollow around 7pm and found my parents who already had a camp site. We ghetto rigged some Hella lights I had and I was able to go for a quick drive through the dunes with my buddy's rzr that night before going to bed.

Sadly the grille and headlights couldn't make it for the trip, the grille didn't fit with the winch and the passenger headlight wasn't even held in after the Knolls race so just pulled them off. So Thursday morning we began prepping for the race, of course stuff can't go smoothly--the battery on the 80 is stone cold dead. We jump it and get it going so decide to go for a quick drive and to prerun the course so the battery can get charged a bit. The course is super short, maybe 1/2 mile, probably like 1/4 or 3/8 of a mile loop. It goes up one side and is all sandy, drops into this canyon, and down the canyon and back around. Super simple, so we go to run it and on the first run through we get into the canyon and don't see this drop so end up tipping the truck onto the driver's side so the roof is leaning against a rock and the passenger tires are all off the ground. Luckily I was able to steer and give it some gas and get out. Alright, that was kind of gnarly, luckily there's a few different lines. We ended up running the course 4 time and got the optimal path figured out. We come back to camp after probably 30 minutes, turn the truck off and on and it won't even crank--the battery is totally dead. It was a Costco battery and there's a Costco in St. George, so we haul ass over there and get it warrantied and a new battery and luckily that seemed to completely fix that. We then rushed to suit up and run over for the driver's meeting for the rock race that was starting at 2pm.

We sit through the driver's meeting, ask some questions, etc. and we're starting to get scared--like there's people who have won King of the Hammers in the unlimited class and we're gonna be racing them in our essentially stock FJ80... We think we have everything figured out, and we're in heat 2 so we run back to camp and grab a few things and run back to catch the end of heat 1. We're all suited up and waiting, and what we had heard was everyone lines up at the entrance to the course. So we're sitting there and don't see anyone, finally three trucks come down and enter the course... and in our heat there were 5 including us, and we were last, so we're like okay... where is the last guy, do we go now since we don't know where he is? Finally the last guy shows up, so we follow him in. Turns out we were supposed to stage next to the announcer tent which we didn't know, then enter the course and line up inside the canyon. Oh well, as seems to be a pattern racing is a cluster and actually knowing what's supposed to happen is half the challenge. Anyways, we line up and everything is good. We're watching everything and don't know if we go one at a time, or all at once since in front of us there's two rows of cars so starting at once seems like it'd be tight but it's such a short course... we don't know, but we're slow and in the back so whatever. My codriver and I are like s***ting ourselves too, we are SO scared. The Knolls race was a LOT different, lot more cars but we were racing against UTVs and VW bugs and smaller buggies. Granted they were faster than us, but we had the largest truck in that race and it wasn't like a lot of spectators, everyone was just racing for fun. Well this race was a ton of people all around the course watching, and we are by FAR the most stock thing. It's not like a FJ80 vs a VW bug for last place, it's like a FJ80 vs a fully built mod class Jeep that has dual shocks and bypasses and twice as much horsepower--and that's the next slowest guy. Oh and in our heat is Jordan Pelligrino and Cody Wagoneer--well known offroad racers with tons of money and insanely capable rigs. And here we are, in a stock FJ80 on 40s....

So the flag waves, everyone takes off so that answers the question of how it starts. We start putting, getting the s*** beat out of us since I'm going as fast as I can which is painfully slow.

We go down the canyon, up the sand part and don't even see anyone at this point. We drop into the canyon and putting along, in the live feed on facebook you can see where the front end catches air as we come over this one rock. It was so brutal inside the truck, and felt like I was destroying it, and in reality we're going like 10mph. We're getting near the bottom of the canyon, and I hear an engine behind me. For some reason I never hear sirens or horns, I can always hear the engine behind us though. So I'm anxious now, I know someone is right on our ass and we are in a spot where no one can pass us in the one choke point of the entire race. It's a V crack type thing at the bottom, and in prerunning I knew I couldn't (or was highly unlikely) I could flex through it or go up one side or the other. I had to center on it, go through, and then there was a rock lip on the driver's side a bit of the way in that I had to go up and flex on a little and then drop out of. Well under pressure of knowing someone was about to kill us from behind, I was trying to go as fast as I could through the V. We went in and before I knew it we were too high driver's side and rolling over onto the passenger side. Right inside the crack, right where no one could get around us.

There was no way I could drive out of it I could tell, so I shut the truck down and we just hung in our harnesses. At the meeting I had even asked what happens if you roll, and they said just stay in the truck unless it's on fire. So that's what we did, and it felt like forever until someone came to the window and said they would roll us over. The whole time there's this drone hovering in front of us too that we're waving at. They hooked a winch up and pulled us over and had us drive forward a bit until we leveled out, and then got off the course. If we could of kept racing I would of, but the drag link was destroyed (again).

Presumably the roll was entirely my fault, though I have some speculation that it was unavoidable--the drag link was bent at almost 90 degrees, and it resulted in me not being able to turn right at all, though I could turn left and point straight fine. The drag link had been bent at Knolls too, and we couldn't get a new one in time so had used the tube bender to straighten it as best we could, point being that it was already compromised and would require hardly anything to bend it. If anyone sees the video, the roll is super slow and I didn't feel the steering wheel jerk or anything. I'm suspicious that the drag link had gotten bent as we came down the canyon and I was able to line up on the V crack but when I went to turn passenger it just wouldn't turn and as far as I knew it was full cranked, but really was just the link getting stuck against the radius arm. I don't know, but it's one of those things where I look at it like I should of driven better--but also the ONLY thing that broke would also have caused that exact kind of wreck. So who knows, unless I find a good picture of the front of the truck right before I hit that crack it's anyone's guess as to whether I just outdrove my talent or the steering didn't let me go where I wanted and correct how I needed.

We were able to drive the 80 back to camp, took like 3x 20 point turns to get away from the race area since I had to back up going left and then go straight everywhere. Once we were back in the sand I could slightly go right if we were going fast enough it seemed like so had no issue driving back. The following day I pulled the drag link but it was hopeless to bend it straight, so took it to a local shop, Sand Hollow Offroad, and the guy there cut out the center part where it was bent and then welded in a DOM center section and fillet and plug welded the tie rod threaded ends on. It's super beefy now, and will probably run it as long as I have this steering setup.

And that wraps up the racing half of the journey, I have some other pictures and stories from wheeling during the weekend that I'll post later!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

The stock class rules essentially say you have to use the same shock and spring configuration as stock, a 3-link would be allowed but coilovers wouldn't. My main issue with the stock rules is:
-shocks are super limited (no coilovers or bypasses) and hydro bumps aren't even allowed
-body has to be essentially unmodified which makes fitting things annoying at best
-and I have less issue with, but 35s are max size

I might have missed it but who's rules are you noting?

 

[nukegoat]

How did I miss this thread? This is awesome.

 

[nukegoat]

I might have missed it but who's rules are you noting?

U4

 

[cme4lyt]

Totally awesome, thanks for sharing ! Keep the stories and pix coming, you are living the dream....

 

[snivilous]

I'll throw up the remaining pictures from Trail Hero later, right now I'll talk about my trip to Moab last week!

My girlfriend and one of my friends and I drove down to Moab Wednesday after class, and after being delayed by a sick puppy we got into Moab around 7pm. Thursday my girlfriend drove into Grand Junction so my buddy and I just drove onto Poison Spider Mesa and hauled some mountain bikes we had rented from my school and did some riding up there. Mid afternoon I got a call from another guy with a SAS Tacoma saying he had arrived in town, so we met up with him and ran part of the Behind the Rocks trail. I'm not sure how much of it we did, and honestly the whole trail was pretty boring with the exception of the High Dive obstacle being cool (Picture Credit to Mr. Leonhardt)

I only went up it, and had to take the far left line after giving up the middle line after a few tries. I was debating going down it too, but didn't feel like risking rolling it so early in the trip. After that we ran back to camp since it was getting dark and cold, and the 80 is miserable at 65mph when it's cold. It actually does really well on the highway (as far as I can tell considering I have no gauges) pushing 40s that were aired down to ~8psi the whole time. I was able to keep up with traffic in overdrive, she's not quick to accelerate but seems to keep up fine considering what she is.

Friday morning we met up with a guy I know on Facebook at the entrance to Pritchett. Running Prtichett has been on my bucket list for a long time and I finally had a capable rig so was the number one trail I wanted to do while we were down there. We ended up being part of a group of seven, with the other six all being Tacomas.

We got to the first real obstacle, Chewy, and the guy I knew just walked right up it. The next Taco which was a 2nd gen with I think a 9.5 rear axle ended up blowing a shaft. So after taking forever to pull the shaft, then figuring out what to do, etc. etc. four trucks in the group decided to turn around. At this point, another group of four rigs had arrived (I knew one of the guys in this group). So since everyone in front of me had decided to turn around, it was my turn to try the obstacle. My first stab wasn't very successful, I could get up the first ledge but couldn't get enough traction or momentum to get up further. I tried crawling it and tried the full throttle approach with no luck, so I backed all the way down, and went at a slight angle up the hill and the 80 just walked right up the whole thing without any issues!

So we get out and go back down, and then the guy behind me who I knew in a red truggy ended up blowing a shaft on his Dana 60. I'm not sure what the deal was since it looked like the exact same line I took, and it wasn't a bad spot.

So of course, a bunch of waiting around again. Turns out the other three guys that had arrived with the truggy (so their whole group of four) decided to turn around too then. So that left the last Tacoma that was in the original group to come up the hill, which was uneventful, and left three of us to continue up the trail from the group of 11 that had started at the bottom of Chewy. I was pretty stoked, we had done the first big obstacle and I was happy the group had shrunk so 11, let alone the seven trucks I was originally with, is too many in my opinion.

The three of us went aways, and long story short my friend who was leading ended up also blowing a shaft in his Diamond axle and on flat ground. No obstacle at all, just driving on slick rock and pop. He said this was the fourth shaft he had blown on that side alone, so needless to say something about the housing assembly was somehow jacked and breaking his shafts. So we all parked and went through the exercise of pulling the shaft out.

After that we ended up turning around since he didn't have a spare shaft. Went down Chewy which was exciting, at one point I was about a second away from punching the throttle and saying fxxx it and just racing down the rocks since I felt the rear passenger corner come way up, but then the truck composed itself in time. I'm definitely disappointed, but I didn't have any issues on the 1/3 or so of Pritchett I did, but definitely want to go back and finish it obviously. Just that short part of the trail ended up taking us from 7:30am to like 2pm when we got out.

Saturday all we ended up doing was Hell's Revenge. Another friend had shown up Friday night, and had some newbies to offroading so wanted to do something easy and my girlfriend likes Hell's Revenge, and figured I could knock out the "hard" obstacles on it that I had never tried. The trail was uneventful: Hell's Gate, Tip Over Challenge, Hot Tubs, Escalator, the 80 just walked up all of them without skipping a beat. For a mostly stock truck on 40s, everything was a cake walk. The only thing I couldn't make it up was the Devil's Highway hot tub, which is the really big deep one that has a small pond in the bottom of it. I tried five or six times with everything I had, but just couldn't get it. Everyone said I was close, I think I just didn't have enough horsepower to get momentum to climb up high enough and out. The bottom was super nasty too, apparently someone had rolled the week before and drained all their fluids in it. Multiple times I was seriously worried thinking I was the one leaking gear and engine oil everywhere. Not bummed I couldn't make it out, maybe if I spent more time but I didn't want to push my luck from too many full throttle attempts.

I also met some cool dudes at the top of Hell's Gate, I forget what their names were (Something - Jay?) but they were super nice and said they had seen the build so shout out to them! They offered helping at KOH with pitting which was super cool and nice, and I'll certainly need all the help I can get!

 

[snivilous]

After Hell's Revenge I had to pick up my friend who had gone mountain biking down the Enchilada, at that point is when I finally broke something. At the stop sign getting into town, I took a right and heard a pop and it was the studs and pins on the back right shaft shearing off.

From what I've heard it's not uncommon, and if the bolts get loose at all everything just snaps. I'll need a new hub piece obviously since you can see where the shear pins got pushed over and ripped through the hub. The shaft itself is totally fine though! I had visually checked the studs the day before, but from all the street driving and then the trails it makes sense they worked themselves loose, especially since I had just replaced them a few weeks before plus running 40s in the single digit pressures and doing a 90 degree turn on pavement with a spool, lots of stuff fighting each other in the axle. Luckily since it's full float obviously, just pulled the shaft and stuffed a paper towel in the tube and kept on driving!

It was late once we got back to camp since I got my buddy, then drove back up the road to drop him off at my Tundra, then drive back down to camp. With the shaft not able to transfer torque at all to the hub, it was pointless to try and wheel much more. Between it being late, and not wanting to really do much on Sunday, I called it for the end of the wheeling on that trip. The only other stuff I had wanted to do was redo some trails at BFE, and no way was I taking the 80 in 3 wheel drive through that, plus my friend with the SAS Taco I was camping with (not the one who did Pritchett) didn't seem to want to hit anything hard so didn't think he would try anything at BFE anyways. And with that, our trip to Moab was wrapped up!

Now that all the big events I wanted to go to are done, and there's no local races near me for awhile, the 80 will get torn down in preparation for Hammers. I have a big list of things I want to do. I'm thinking I will heavily modify the body, and shorten the rear about 12" to gain better departure angle and then splice the two parts together to make it look as close to stock as possible. Likewise I want to shorten the front, probably move the hood backwards and down and then move the bumper, radiators, etc. I like the wheel base the truck has, but it overhangs the axles a lot so want to get that better. The rest I want to do is fairly straight forward, 3 link the front, chop the front of the bottom and engine cage and remount the exterior body panels, air bumps, probably run coilovers on all four corners along with my 14" resi shocks I have coming, etc.

So there should be a lot of work happening to the truck in the coming weeks and months, and she'll finally move from a mostly stock 80 series, into a mostly racecar dressed as an 80 series. We'll see what happens!

 

[n0rth]

That was me in the green FJ80 that you met at the top of hells gate. It was good to meet you and I'll be in touch about KOH.
J.W.

 

[txlonghorn]

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but how much up travel are you left with?

 

[snivilous]

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but how much up travel are you left with?

Just measured it, rear is around 4.75" from the bump to the axle. Front is 4" from the bottom of the stock cone stop.

But for the record, I did not set this up at all. The only thing I've done is dropped the rear bumps 3", and added the 2" spring spacer from Metal Tech to the front. When I got the truck it already had some OME shocks and 851 fronts and 860 rears, and I haven't changed any of those. In the coming weeks I'll actually properly setup the suspension, so the numbers right now don't represent anything intentional, just what was needed to clear the 40s at full bump with the stuff that came on it.

 

[txlonghorn]

Just measured it, rear is around 4.75" from the bump to the axle. Front is 4" from the bottom of the stock cone stop.

But for the record, I did not set this up at all. The only thing I've done is dropped the rear bumps 3", and added the 2" spring spacer from Metal Tech to the front. When I got the truck it already had some OME shocks and 851 fronts and 860 rears, and I haven't changed any of those. In the coming weeks I'll actually properly setup the suspension, so the numbers right now don't represent anything intentional, just what was needed to clear the 40s at full bump with the stuff that came on it.

That’s a lot more than a figured you’d have! Good stuff. Look forward to seeing how this build progresses.

 

[snivilous]

Few quick pictures from the past couple days. Yesterday I decided to go to a rear mount radiator setup which let me cut 12" off the front of the frame. I didn't get any pictures with my good camera, but the 40s stick past the end of the frame now! With the 37s the bumper will probably stick out an inch or two past the front of the tires. Need to figure out what I want to do with the hood and fenders (once I get new ones), but that's a secondary issue to getting a more capable rig.

I also ordered some King hydro bumps for all corners... but after that I was informed that my King smoothies I had ordered 6 weeks ago originally had a 10 week lead time, even though I was told 5-6 weeks. Today I tried to cancel my order of all my King components since it's really screwing me over having to wait almost 3 months just for basic shocks, but the order can't be cancelled without a 20% restocking fee, which would be almost $600..... SRQ Fabrications sells ADS so I can get good prices on those, but I don't want to spend a ton and be running two different brands of components. Not a big deal, but I don't want to deal with compatibility issues when valving or whatever down the line, so I'm not sure what to do. I need to buy coilovers, but I'm sure King will take 8 years to build them, and I think ADS would be good but don't want to run ADS coilovers with a King secondary shock. As much as I totally hate FOA shocks, I might just get those since a full set is less than $1000 and worst case I could run them as a coil carrier, and best case just sell them after using them for mockup and preliminary testing. Kind of in a pickle, I have thousands of dollars of shocks on order that won't show up until the end of November IF I'M LUCKY, and need even more shocks to even set up the suspension let alone race. Considering I still need link materials, beadlocks, 37s, spare parts, etc, etc, etc, etc, I might just do the cheap FOAs since at least I'll have a dual shock setup so even if the FOAs s*** themselves I'll still have decent damping.

Starting to get nervous about KOH since I have a LOT to do, and 3 months to do it all and I have no suspension setup. Anyways, here's some pictures:

This racing thing is really expensive and really hard when you're a one man operation, and balancing school and work and building.

 

[snivilous]

So here's how far back I cut the frame:

Today I did a notch in the front and rotated the frame up so the bumper would be level and test fit where it would sit. I think I'll just cut the front 4" off the frame and buy some 2x4 tube and weld it on exactly where I want for the bumper to slide onto. The stock frame is pretty thin and the bumper is a tight fit, so between reinforcing where I notched it and everything else, it's just easier to do a single angle cut on some rectangular tubing and weld it on.

As you can see, the frame sits behind the front of the tires but the bumper sticks past the tires. I was hoping with the 40s the tires would poke past the bumper a bit but I guess not. Even if I went to town on the bumper and notched it for the crank pulley so I could move it back more, having the winch on the bumper there's no way to move it back that far. Not a big deal, for racing I want/need the bumper to stick out past the tires and I still have like a 85deg approach angle which is nothing to complain about!

I had thought previously I might want to remove the "wings" on the bumper, something I didn't take into account when shortening the frame is the wings definitely have to be removed.

I was kind of unsure how I would figure out the amount of up travel to have, I cycled the front suspension and full bump will definitely be controlled by the oil pan and 3 link towers. The front suspension will probably compress to around the same spot it would stock, and then just have a ton of droop and probably 5" of up travel.

I cut most of the remains of the front shock/spring towers and perches off. I will most likely run the shocks right behind each other, so have the coilover where the stock spring used to go and the secondary shock where the stock shock used to go. Not sure where the bumps will go in the front yet... I also cut up some of the passenger side rocker again, cutting the body is so annoying since it's so intricate.

And then I spent awhile considering what to do with the rear end...

Originally I was thinking of chopping the frame and body back in the rear because the departure angle is pretty horrible (especially compared to how the front will be), but considering I have such little time I was leaning against doing that before KOH. However, then I started thinking how to mount shocks in the rear and that gets complicated...

So to bring everyone up to speed, right now I have four piggyback smoothies from King, four 2x2 air bumps from King, and four ADS coilovers all on order (the ADS stuff should arrive next week or the week after, and the Kings probably won't show up until December). Point being, I have dual shocks plus air bumps on all corners, the front isn't a big deal since the frame is narrow but the rear has a wide frame and frankly the stock axle isn't that wide. This brings up the issue of how to mount everything when the frame is so wide--aka I can't (easily) mount even one shock to the outside of the frame and the other to the inside, this is evident when you look at the stock bump location and where it hits the axle (it's essentially right next to the brakes). The other alternative is mount everything on the inside of the frame like the stock suspension does, but that brings up the issue of running the shocks either parallel with the frame or side by side on the axle, which would push the inboard shocks pretty far in which is bad. Considering the cross member above the axle, and where I have my fuel cell, it seems like it'll be a challenge to run all the shocks considering where everything is unless I cut stuff.

So that leads me into my current idea, cut the frame (most likely behind the link mounts since I want to keep stock rear geometry), and replace the rear frame with tubing and have it do kind of an hourglass shape when looked at from the top. So the frame would bend in really far, then bend back out, and where it bends in would then give room to run two shocks side by side as far outboard as I can. While I'm at it, I could then cut the body and move the ass forward and essentially have all tube work from the links back. Obviously it would all be part of the roll cage, so where I have the C pillar diagonal coming down I could use/modify that tube to mount the shocks to also. So everything would get nice and tight and wrap around the suspension essentially. Downside though is that's a lot of work, I would also lose a lot of room since the fuel cell would either get rotated or moved forward to clear the wheel wells where the shocks would come up into the body. I'm undecided right now, but I think that might be the easiest and most efficient path forward and would get a nice end result that isn't all ghetto'd together just so I can run the full shock setup for KOH.

In other news too, I ordered the 3 link kit from Ruffstuff. Seemed like a good deal for all the brackets and joints, and I was planning on running their joints already. Hopefully that shows up soon so I can start mocking up the front end. Also ordered some mirrors to weld onto the cage, and some other miscellaneous things. Still need to order stuff from Cruiser Outfitters to fix the rear axle, though I probably won't work on that for awhile since that's a quick and low priority issue. Right now I need to get to town fabricating everything that's needed. Lots of work, but overall not a ton of tasks and a plan is starting to come together to finish the truck so I'm hopeful!

 

[nukegoat]

What about shocks behind the axle and angled slightly back and in? Need to run another tube parallel to the rear spring crossmember with enough room for shock or c/o tabs...