I have these 2 options for an engine swap into my fj40 (seans j4 build ). Leaning towards the 5.7 for the low end torque. But hear good things about the 4.8l. Any input? This dilemma is what's holding up the build at the moment. Thx.
4.8 lq9 or 5.7 vortec (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cruisersean
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I put a stock 4.8 in my 40 project, did all the efi wiring myself with guidance from LT1swaps.com and it is great. I have yet to feel like there isn’t enough low end grunt. I’m running 35” tires, 4.10 diffs, stock 40 4 speed Tcase (can’t recall the gear ratio) and a stock 4L60e. Love it.
You won’t be unhappy with any of the LS series or the efi.
You won’t be unhappy with any of the LS series or the efi.
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- #3
That's good to hear. What type of driving would you mostly do in yours? I'm pretty much building a mild rock crawler with the potential to gwt serious , gonna run 35s for street and 37s on the trails to start.
I went with a Vortec 5.7 in my build. Why is a bit complicated, but goes like this:
1) I have tons of 1st gen sbc parts
2) my experience (and I've had a 06 GTO and currently a H3 Alpha) is the vortec gets better fuel economy
3) you can buy SBC parts at 7-11 (okay, I joke but not by much)
4) any LS build was at least $1000 more costly because of computer issues and the biggest issue (my opinion) accessory drives. The Vortec drops complete in a FJ40 frame. The width with the a/c compressor is problematic in an LS. I know, why a/c compressor? because I wanted an engine-run air compressor.... bolting a york compressor to the vortec pad was bone-head simple
against it (Vortec)
1) efi on the LS is so much easier to get operational, and the computer is waterproof
2) LS motors have better longevity - a Vortec motor that survived with its oil-cooler lasts 200k miles (without 100k). An LS motor routinely goes 300k, with or without the oil cooler
3) marginally lighter - if you get the aluminum version (5.3 up)
4) LS is the hottest motor, everyone and their brother build parts for it (though generally more expensive).
5) if you want to go twin turbo, the bottom end can handle it
As for whether or not you want the 4.8.... go test drive one, honestly, if you like how it hauls a 5000 lb truck around, you'll like how it goes in your FJ40. It is more then a numbers game. I have the 5.3 in my H3 - and should it go beyond it's SAR/DD status, I will replace it with a 6.0 or 6.2 because I think a 327 is a bit small to haul around 6k lbs....
1) I have tons of 1st gen sbc parts
2) my experience (and I've had a 06 GTO and currently a H3 Alpha) is the vortec gets better fuel economy
3) you can buy SBC parts at 7-11 (okay, I joke but not by much)
4) any LS build was at least $1000 more costly because of computer issues and the biggest issue (my opinion) accessory drives. The Vortec drops complete in a FJ40 frame. The width with the a/c compressor is problematic in an LS. I know, why a/c compressor? because I wanted an engine-run air compressor.... bolting a york compressor to the vortec pad was bone-head simple
against it (Vortec)
1) efi on the LS is so much easier to get operational, and the computer is waterproof
2) LS motors have better longevity - a Vortec motor that survived with its oil-cooler lasts 200k miles (without 100k). An LS motor routinely goes 300k, with or without the oil cooler
3) marginally lighter - if you get the aluminum version (5.3 up)
4) LS is the hottest motor, everyone and their brother build parts for it (though generally more expensive).
5) if you want to go twin turbo, the bottom end can handle it
As for whether or not you want the 4.8.... go test drive one, honestly, if you like how it hauls a 5000 lb truck around, you'll like how it goes in your FJ40. It is more then a numbers game. I have the 5.3 in my H3 - and should it go beyond it's SAR/DD status, I will replace it with a 6.0 or 6.2 because I think a 327 is a bit small to haul around 6k lbs....
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- #5
Thanks guys , I needed someone with some first had experience.
Well I do have a vortec, pretty low miles sitting in my yard, seen it run and its not caked in oil, but the 4.8 is only 200 bucks and is dirty as hell with 170k.
I am leaning towards the 5.7 since my emphasis on the build is plenty of torque and low gearing at the trans. My rig is on an 80 frame and by the time i build the bed , armor and load it down with supplies it'll be a bit heavier than a 40, i think.
Also with mounting up an nv4500, , would I be able to use the clutch and flywheel that came with the trans? I know I need an AA bell housing but u would think the flywheel wouldn't change.
Well I do have a vortec, pretty low miles sitting in my yard, seen it run and its not caked in oil, but the 4.8 is only 200 bucks and is dirty as hell with 170k.
I am leaning towards the 5.7 since my emphasis on the build is plenty of torque and low gearing at the trans. My rig is on an 80 frame and by the time i build the bed , armor and load it down with supplies it'll be a bit heavier than a 40, i think.
Also with mounting up an nv4500, , would I be able to use the clutch and flywheel that came with the trans? I know I need an AA bell housing but u would think the flywheel wouldn't change.
Lots of driving around on the road, gives the 40 a functional feel, we you step on it it goes. Wheeling is trail riding, including muskeg and sand, not a lot for rocks around here. SBG is right in that you should take a 2000+ chev pick up for a drive and if that feels like enough power for you, an LS will feel like more in a 40. I’m probably not gonna regear my axles cause I’m happy as is, weighing 4800 lbs.
As for the accessory drive, SBG is correct that it can be costly. I skipped that 1000 cost and just dropped the truck accessory equipt engine in. the compromise was engine placement that is 1”-1.5” higher and 1” further back, the PS pulley was in interfering with where I mounted my 60 series PS box. It was a worthwhile compromise for me to save the $.
An LS with 170k is next to new, don’t let the wiring cost scare you. I spent about 100 on rewire and reflash of the harness/ecu that came with the donor engine. If you are keen on the manual trans that may push you one way or another based on adaptor costs.
I think that OrangeFJ45 summed it up the best a while ago. LS motors are for cars with a power band suited for a car, LQ motors have a much more useful powerband for trucks.
The Yukon I had did admirably with a 4.8. However, I'd go for the 5.3 or the 6.0 personally. I love the new Vortec motors. 350's are very old technology and good, but not nearly as good as the newer stuff..
Go look at Chicago's build on his 40. he put a 5.3 in there. Worked great.
The Yukon I had did admirably with a 4.8. However, I'd go for the 5.3 or the 6.0 personally. I love the new Vortec motors. 350's are very old technology and good, but not nearly as good as the newer stuff..
Go look at Chicago's build on his 40. he put a 5.3 in there. Worked great.
1) because with a Vortec motor, you're an intake and distributor away from starting it with a carb. But that wasn't my entire point, the accessory drive issue was the point, I've bought complete Vortec motors for $100 (with their accessories) - I'm not sure what you could buy for a LS that's $100...
2) you can get LS parts, but my experience is that they're more expensive because there's roughly a million LS motors and 100 million SBCs
where did you put your York air compressor?
to rephrase my point, it's not a question of which motor - it's what your ENTIRE (sorry for the caps, but it's important) build. The OP mentioned he wanted more torque - which, in my opinion, is the best question to ask because he's asking a "what will my end result be" question. People get into the weeds on these arguments because they focus on one aspect rather then looking towards their end goal... my opinion is the LS isn't worth the extra cost, even with the waterproof ECM. But that's my opinion and it's based upon a bunch of factors that may or may not be important to someone else. Again, those reasons I said before were why I went the direction I did on my build. OP asked for experiences, and that's how I answered it... but there isn't a one-size-fits-all.
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- #9
Great input you guys, my driveline includes an fj60 case and ff rear axle. I was kinda hopeing on the nv to handle most of the low gearing so I wouldn't need too tall a gear in the axle so I can still highway cruise.thats where the 5.7 comes in. Being used to driving my stock 60, getting somewhere fast isnt the biggest deal, but on lower terminator with the carb and not too low gearing left me skinny footin up the rocks and bouncing up the hill lol. Id like to have the most low end grunt with just enough highway to cruise 70. Is that too much to ask!!?!?? not too afraid of the wiring, I have done a few lt swaps before into impalas and rx7s.
careful with $200 whores, a mine truck has "only" 100k when they're done but when they're done.... there isn't anything left worth buying. I've gotten caught up in the "but it's onlys...." and spent a lot more making it work then had I run what I already had... but I know, the shiney babble you don't have is far more attractive then the horse apple you do have... I speak by bitter experience there...
I'm running 4.56s in mine with a 5 speed - of course, to some that is insanity to drive such a gear ratio with 38 (soon to be 40) inch tires... honestly, I'd run what you have an change it if it doesn't work.... that said, there is no substitute for cubic inches.
- Thread starter
- #12
We use that saying all the time round here, no replacement for displacement. with the exception of 2 rotors and a turbo
!!! But that's another slugfest. I agree with the, use what u got and change what doesn't suit my needs, mentality. don't have much experience rock crawling but am usually camping and trail riding every weekend, rain or shine. Either way I know I will be completely stoked to just drive a 40, let alone v8 power and coil spring
!!! But that's another slugfest. I agree with the, use what u got and change what doesn't suit my needs, mentality. don't have much experience rock crawling but am usually camping and trail riding every weekend, rain or shine. Either way I know I will be completely stoked to just drive a 40, let alone v8 power and coil spring- Thread starter
- #13
Liljohn I believe when dealing with torque in the low rpm range, a longer stroke of the piston or the larger displacement will give u more power. Hence my statement, however I agree with you that not every application needs a huge bb engine to go fast. Everything in life is about balance
Ps your fj55 setup sounds awesome, is the build on here?
Ps your fj55 setup sounds awesome, is the build on here?
If you have the 5.7 and it is in known good shape AND complete, I'd run it.
The $200 4.8 may be in questionable condition and completeness. I paid a bit more for my 160k 5.3L that wasn't complete. But I was going to go through it and use other parts for the missing parts, so I wasn't too upset. I paid a LOT more for my 6.0L but it had ~30k and was complete/ready to run minus removing VATS+wire.
I also wouldn't buy to much into the old over used "no replacement for displacement"... application plays a bigger role in it. If it were the end all be all, anybody NOT running a 500cc BB Cady sucks.My 5.0L TBI rated at a whole 190hp pulled my FJ40 VERY well with 4.11 gears and 35" tires. I wouldn't and didn't hesitate to buy a "small" engine at a steal than over pay for a big engine... a 5.7L was 2x the price when I did the 5.0L swap.
FWIW, my FJ55 with 6.0L and NV4500 will run 2700rpm with 35" tires and 4.88 gears at ~70mph... plenty of room to get to 90mph when needed
I thought, quite seriously, about a 500 ci caddy motor in my '40
but a friend with a Suburban needed it more
I've owned 2 SBF 302 powered FJ40s, they're a great motor for it (except for that distributor in the front)...
We use that saying all the time round here, no replacement for displacement. with the exception of 2 rotors and a turbo
turbos, efi, etc... all I need is a water-cooled checkbook.
I have a 50 Buick that I'm putting a twin turbo 455 in, torque and hp
yet still, the theory behind my build (Shipwreck) is stone-cold reliability, unlimited parts availability and a ride that won't break my back.
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Wasn't it Mythbusters or something like that that got a 4.8L from a junkyard, fairly high mile. Then the put a turbo on it and nothing else. They started boosting it, giving it more and more boost until it blew up. I think it was something like 45psi before it imploded. Pretty impressive if you ask me.
The 5.7L is a great motor but a bit older. The spider injector assembly is kind of lame but much better than TBI. Hard to find good headers for the 5.7L, it has square ports. Doug Thorely used to make some nice ones for the 5.7 but do not any more. 5.7 is pretty damn reliable, rust great when set up right, gets decent mpg and has sweet down ow torque. Cheap as can be to work on or upgrade too. IMHO if a guy wants a v8 but doesn't want old school TBI or worse carbed yet he doesn't want to deal with a more modern v8 and it's complexities. Well, the 5.7L is perfect for these guys.
These days though, I see no reason whatsoever to not use a gen3 or4 engine. They are just so much better and a lot can be had for dirt cheap. Coil packs rather than a dizzy, VVT, better hp/torque, lighter, ect ect ect is why I like them more than the older school v8s.
Cheers
The 5.7L is a great motor but a bit older. The spider injector assembly is kind of lame but much better than TBI. Hard to find good headers for the 5.7L, it has square ports. Doug Thorely used to make some nice ones for the 5.7 but do not any more. 5.7 is pretty damn reliable, rust great when set up right, gets decent mpg and has sweet down ow torque. Cheap as can be to work on or upgrade too. IMHO if a guy wants a v8 but doesn't want old school TBI or worse carbed yet he doesn't want to deal with a more modern v8 and it's complexities. Well, the 5.7L is perfect for these guys.
These days though, I see no reason whatsoever to not use a gen3 or4 engine. They are just so much better and a lot can be had for dirt cheap. Coil packs rather than a dizzy, VVT, better hp/torque, lighter, ect ect ect is why I like them more than the older school v8s.
Cheers
mythbusters? are you afraid to admit on a 4x4 forum that you read Hot Rod Magazine? lol, I'm sure you only read it for its articles.
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- #17
Well i just drove a tbi powered cruiser last night for the first time and i could say any v8 swap will make you smile from ear to ear if you've driven an fj in stock form. I just feel that if I swapped the 4.8, we could still switch to an ls or 5.3 motor since its all setup for it but If i throw in this vortec, I'd have the power I want and be on to the next hurdle If it was a 5.3 instead of a 4.8, I'd be all over it.
It's not even a close call for me. Put the 4.8 in and as soon as you can swap it out for the 6.0 LQ4. Skip the 5.3. Everything is the same except the pcm flash. You could swap in the 6.0 in three hours once the rest of it is already done.
My 55 and my 45s did just fine with 350s. Now they both have aluminum head 6.0s. Then the 45 just got a bore to 6.2 with high compression pistons and a nice cam. I'm tweaking the tune now.
I understand the concept of "plenty of power", but I don't subscribe to it.
My 55 and my 45s did just fine with 350s. Now they both have aluminum head 6.0s. Then the 45 just got a bore to 6.2 with high compression pistons and a nice cam. I'm tweaking the tune now.
I understand the concept of "plenty of power", but I don't subscribe to it.
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