3FE Won't Run After Clunk - Realtime (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TrustyToyota
- Start date
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Pull the spark plugs and try to turn the crank with the belts. Without the spark plugs in, it should be easy to turn the front pulley. If it does not want to turn, the last thing I would do is stick a wooden dowel down the back spark plug hole and have someone kick the starter. The dowel should be at least 18 inches long. If the crank is still connected to the flywheel, then you should see the dowel move up and down with the engine cranking over. Don't run the starter so long as to see the dowel move up and down; you mainly are looking for movement. My suggestion is an unorthodox approach, but you are in a particularly bad spot. A wood dowel on top of a piston will not hurt it if you only kick the starter. If #6 has movement, then move towards the front of the engine and do #5, #4...... until you find a non-moving piston. This is easier and quicker than pulling the pan. If all pistons move, things are looking "better" than a broken drive crank shaft.
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
Not good, TrustyToyota. Sorry to hear this outcome. I concur, your crankshaft is broken. There is likely other damage too, like bent valves in cylinders 4-6 and maybe something worse around cylinders 1-3 like a broken rod or seized main bearing. You could disassemble the motor, evaluate the damage and cost of repair and proceed that way, or you could just start shopping now for a replacement motor. It is likely cheaper to find a motor that's been recently rebuilt or at least has lower mileage than your 200K and focus your time and attention on swapping the motor instead of tearing apart what is clearly a pretty broken 3FE. I bet you could find a 3FE from an FJ62 or FJ80 for a few hundred bucks, and that plus a long weekend and an engine host and you'd be back on the road again soon. If it was summer, I'd consider a trip to Minneapolis to help you. But I spent the first 21 years of my like living through the ice and snow of MN winters and that's why I'm in Calif now.
I joined here after reading your post Trusty Toyota, so I could maybe give you some comfort! As I was driving my 91 FJ80 home this evening monitoring my fluctuating oil pressure, a little "maybe" noise became a serious knock! I know it is a lower end knock from experience, and the oil pressure. It is fatal! I rebuilt the top end last year and for insurance replaced the rod bearings. I purchased this truck limping very badly which prompted the top end rebuild. With the exception of a leaking rear main seal, I was happy. These type of loses are hard to take and expensive! I wish you good luck!
P.S. Has anyone in here done a (spit on floor) Chevy conversion on a 90-92 FJ 80?
P.S. Has anyone in here done a (spit on floor) Chevy conversion on a 90-92 FJ 80?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
I saw one done by Danny Warden when he was still in business. the engine compartment looked factory it was so well done.
Agreed. No sense in wasting more time and money on that engine; it is toast. Find another 3FE from a 91-92 and swap engines.
-B-
Yes, but if at all possible, please pull this one apart enough to let us know what went on it.
TrickyT
Hate that mud...
But keep the old one and do a post-mortem on it!
Mildly interesting, but what's the value? I'm surprised the crank would break between the #3 & #4 rod journals, as opposed to at the junction of one of the four main bearings, but so what? It's still a catastrophic engine failure. Time to move on. Salvage what accessories you can from the current motor and find an inexpensive replacement. My impression from reading TrustyToytoa's earlier posts was that he was ready to junk the whole vehicle. Instead, I'm trying to advocate a drop-in used engine. Even if you don't have a ton of mechanical expertise, doing a wholesale motor replacement isn't that difficult, especially with the relatively simple components found on the 3FE. Remove the hood, radiator and cross support, move accessories like power steering and AC out of the way, disconnect miscellaneous electrical connectors and heater hoses, unbolt the motor mounts and driveshafts, and just lift the old motor out and discard. Depending on preferences, you can keep the old transmission or just buy the new motor with a tranny included. Sure, it would be satisfying to be able to say exactly what went wrong, but I don't see how that contributes to the main objective of getting this truck back on the road.
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3fe out of 62 series in Chicago might still be available if you are interested. Not affiliated with seller, just another 3fe owner interested in your case. https://forum.ih8mud.com/parting-out/230030-88-fj62-blue-gray-interior-chicago-il.html
- Thread starter
- #53
Well guys, your encouragement has got me thinking...
I really don't have the time or a place to part out a truck. I also don't think this truck is at the end of its life (the motor is, but everything else seems to be in decent shape for its age/mileage). I really don't want to sell the thing as is, because I know its worth way more to me if I keep it and can get it running again.
I have never attempted something like an engine swap, but if it is nearly a "drop-it" as long as I can salvage most of the current accessories, I think I could handle it. I've done some searching locally for a 3FE, and nothing right now. I've got some people I can talk to that are a little better networked than myself who may know of a 3FE near by.
First priority is getting my '94 up to par, but I would like to tear it down for the sake of understanding the motor better. If I do tear it down, it would not be for a rebuild, just to see what it all looks like inside.
This is very true! I hope I can make it out of this without too many expenses or losses. I think the only reason I'm not completely heart broken about the cruiser is because when this one broke down, I was forced () to drive my '94 80. I guess its not all bad having a backup cruiser to help get over another cruiser tragedy. Best of luck to you too with your motor as it appears we both have about the same path ahead of us.
elhombre - I tried to crank the belts by hand eariler with the plugs out, and no movement at all with all of my body thrown into it. I did the finger compression test, which should have the same effect as the wooden dowel test. That is how I found the front 3 cylinders not moving. If the piston was moving, air would have been moving as well.
I appreciate the link. I think I'm going to look a little closer to home for an engine, but Chicago isn't too far away if the price is right! I'll have to take a look into this one.
Edit: I just read into that thread and the motor is gone. Too bad as it could have been just what I needed. The search goes on...
I know the 3FE was used in the later model 60 series (62 series) cruisers, but if I am looking for an interchangeable motor (one that will "drop in" and be compatable with my current accessories) what years am I looking for? I don't know if all 3FE motors are the same or not, and I would like to avoid doing too many conversions if possible. I'm open to getting a tranny with a new motor, but I really think my current tranny has plenty of life left in it.
I would love to try a diesel conversion on this truck, but unfortunately that just isn't in the budget right now (time or money). That would be a huge undertaking for myself, and I really need a better place to try something like that. Maybe if I still have the truck in 3 or so years with a new motor, I could think it over a little more seriously.
On a lighter note, while I was working on the truck last night, I got about 3 people walking past stop and offer their .02. Mostly useless as one guy offered jumper cables, another stopped and asked what was wrong and looked VERY confused as soon as I got past "spark plug", and the last offered his observations like "looks like something is leaking out of the bottom too!" (pointing to the HUGE puddle of coolant on the ground under the truck). I guess thats what I get for living in the city...
I really don't have the time or a place to part out a truck. I also don't think this truck is at the end of its life (the motor is, but everything else seems to be in decent shape for its age/mileage). I really don't want to sell the thing as is, because I know its worth way more to me if I keep it and can get it running again.
I have never attempted something like an engine swap, but if it is nearly a "drop-it" as long as I can salvage most of the current accessories, I think I could handle it. I've done some searching locally for a 3FE, and nothing right now. I've got some people I can talk to that are a little better networked than myself who may know of a 3FE near by.
First priority is getting my '94 up to par, but I would like to tear it down for the sake of understanding the motor better. If I do tear it down, it would not be for a rebuild, just to see what it all looks like inside.
This is very true! I hope I can make it out of this without too many expenses or losses. I think the only reason I'm not completely heart broken about the cruiser is because when this one broke down, I was forced (
) to drive my '94 80. I guess its not all bad having a backup cruiser to help get over another cruiser tragedy. Best of luck to you too with your motor as it appears we both have about the same path ahead of us.elhombre - I tried to crank the belts by hand eariler with the plugs out, and no movement at all with all of my body thrown into it. I did the finger compression test, which should have the same effect as the wooden dowel test. That is how I found the front 3 cylinders not moving. If the piston was moving, air would have been moving as well.
I appreciate the link. I think I'm going to look a little closer to home for an engine, but Chicago isn't too far away if the price is right! I'll have to take a look into this one.
Edit: I just read into that thread and the motor is gone. Too bad as it could have been just what I needed. The search goes on...
I know the 3FE was used in the later model 60 series (62 series) cruisers, but if I am looking for an interchangeable motor (one that will "drop in" and be compatable with my current accessories) what years am I looking for? I don't know if all 3FE motors are the same or not, and I would like to avoid doing too many conversions if possible. I'm open to getting a tranny with a new motor, but I really think my current tranny has plenty of life left in it.
I would love to try a diesel conversion on this truck, but unfortunately that just isn't in the budget right now (time or money). That would be a huge undertaking for myself, and I really need a better place to try something like that. Maybe if I still have the truck in 3 or so years with a new motor, I could think it over a little more seriously.
On a lighter note, while I was working on the truck last night, I got about 3 people walking past stop and offer their .02. Mostly useless as one guy offered jumper cables, another stopped and asked what was wrong and looked VERY confused as soon as I got past "spark plug", and the last offered his observations like "looks like something is leaking out of the bottom too!" (pointing to the HUGE puddle of coolant on the ground under the truck). I guess thats what I get for living in the city...
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That totally sucks, dude.
If you feel like going a different route than a used 3FE, I'd suggest a Chevy 350. This swap is not too terribly difficult (cheaper than diesel), plus, parts for the motor are available literally EVERYWHERE.
JMHO.
If you feel like going a different route than a used 3FE, I'd suggest a Chevy 350. This swap is not too terribly difficult (cheaper than diesel), plus, parts for the motor are available literally EVERYWHERE.
JMHO.
Also, there are a few minor differences between an FJ62 3FE and an FJ80 3FE: Oil pan, fan clutch, engine ECU (one less code), and there was something about the EGR.
But you should be able to overcome these, if you happen to score a 3FE out of a 62.
But you should be able to overcome these, if you happen to score a 3FE out of a 62.
- Thread starter
- #56
Alright, so I've found a 3FE from a 1988 FJ62 pretty local for $750.
The seller says all accessories are included, and I'm trying to get details on what that includes. Says it ran excellent, and I'm not positive but it may still be in the truck. If it is still in the truck, I'm assuming he could fire it up and I would know just how good it runs.
The seller also said he would sell the entire truck for $1750. That seems like a deal, but I just can't pick up another Landcruiser. I really just need the motor.
Now, I really don't know much about the 3FE, so will this be compatable with my '92 setup? If it will be, I could drop this in, and try and salvage what I can off the blown motor to recoup some of my losses, while still managing to give back to the cruiser community.
The seller says all accessories are included, and I'm trying to get details on what that includes. Says it ran excellent, and I'm not positive but it may still be in the truck. If it is still in the truck, I'm assuming he could fire it up and I would know just how good it runs.
The seller also said he would sell the entire truck for $1750. That seems like a deal, but I just can't pick up another Landcruiser. I really just need the motor.
Now, I really don't know much about the 3FE, so will this be compatable with my '92 setup? If it will be, I could drop this in, and try and salvage what I can off the blown motor to recoup some of my losses, while still managing to give back to the cruiser community.
- Thread starter
- #57
Finally a conclusion!!!
I have to start by apologizing for not getting to a conclusion on this matter any sooner. I realize it has been a long time since all of you have helped on this issue. Now to the "fun" part!!!
I managed to buy and pick up a motor from Tnt4x4 in Illinois and get it put into my 80 with not too much trouble. After some minor issues getting the truck running (electrical shorts, new torque converter, MANY missing bolts on the truck from the idiot PO, etc.) I got the truck back on the road. I didn't have a chance to rip apart the old 3FE until this weekend, but I wanted to before I got it out of the driveway.
I was mainly trying to salvage some spare parts that may be needed later on down the road. I still was too curious about the crank to let that go.
A pile of spare parts from the engine
Now lets play a little game... Name that missing part:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Here is a little clue for those of us that are stumped:
So the crank officially broke. It was really an amazing sight to see the thing sheared right off:
I didn't mess with the large crank nut on the front of the crank pulley, so I didn't manage to get that piece of the crank out of the motor. I think that will be staying there for awhile.
The hanging shell of a motor:
While this wasn't exactly what I wanted to do to my 80 as far as investing money, I learned a wealth of information about the truck which is priceless. I don't consider myself to be much of a mechanic (usually
at best), and I certainly don't have many tools, but this was definitely not impossible. Its also a good thing that I got this truck running again, as I now have a blown headgasket in my '94. I just hope that project goes as well as the swap went (maybe even a little better!!!)
I have to start by apologizing for not getting to a conclusion on this matter any sooner. I realize it has been a long time since all of you have helped on this issue. Now to the "fun" part!!!
I managed to buy and pick up a motor from Tnt4x4 in Illinois and get it put into my 80 with not too much trouble. After some minor issues getting the truck running (electrical shorts, new torque converter, MANY missing bolts on the truck from the idiot PO, etc.) I got the truck back on the road. I didn't have a chance to rip apart the old 3FE until this weekend, but I wanted to before I got it out of the driveway.
I was mainly trying to salvage some spare parts that may be needed later on down the road. I still was too curious about the crank to let that go.
A pile of spare parts from the engine
Now lets play a little game... Name that missing part:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Here is a little clue for those of us that are stumped:
So the crank officially broke. It was really an amazing sight to see the thing sheared right off:
I didn't mess with the large crank nut on the front of the crank pulley, so I didn't manage to get that piece of the crank out of the motor. I think that will be staying there for awhile.
The hanging shell of a motor:
While this wasn't exactly what I wanted to do to my 80 as far as investing money, I learned a wealth of information about the truck which is priceless. I don't consider myself to be much of a mechanic (usually
at best), and I certainly don't have many tools, but this was definitely not impossible. Its also a good thing that I got this truck running again, as I now have a blown headgasket in my '94. I just hope that project goes as well as the swap went (maybe even a little better!!!)
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TrickyT
Hate that mud...
TrustyToyota, Thanks for the follow-up. As several folks here said earlier, this is a very unusual motor failure. If you ever have time, pull the head off that old 3FE and see if the #1 piston can be removed. If it's not stuck in the bore due to some other issue (e.g. broken valve), then the root cause of this problem was the crank breaking - an amazing sight to see.
Glad your 80 is on the road again. Oh, and you're not giving yourself enough's on your mechanical skills. An engine swap rates at least , and definitely so after you do the HG on your '94.
Glad your 80 is on the road again. Oh, and you're not giving yourself enough
's on your mechanical skills. An engine swap rates at least , and definitely so after you do the HG on your '94.
- Thread starter
- #60
TrustyToyota, Thanks for the follow-up. As several folks here said earlier, this is a very unusual motor failure. If you ever have time, pull the head off that old 3FE and see if the #1 piston can be removed. If it's not stuck in the bore due to some other issue (e.g. broken valve), then the root cause of this problem was the crank breaking - an amazing sight to see.
Glad your 80 is on the road again. Oh, and you're not giving yourself enough
I didn't get around to pulling the head off, but I was able to push the #1 piston up and down with my hand. I pulled the lower bearing off the crankshaft on the #1, and the crank pulley was then able to turn. The crank bearing was in pretty tough shape when I got it out, but I'm not sure what actually caused that bearing to fail.
I know the PO was into this thing before I bought it, and he did very poor work. There were missing nuts and bolts in both critical and not so critical places, and some standard nuts/bolts jammed on metric threads. One example was a standard nut on one of the transfer case studs for the driveshaft. He was a real hack, so I wonder if he wasn't into the oil pan before and messed something up. I have a feeling his poor attention to detail is the true cause of this failure.
All said and done, I hope this is the only 3FE failure I have to deal with for awhile!
