3FE better than 2F

[agent orange]

I was looking through a link someone put up to some insanely thorough manual about the 3-FE and it got me wondering about why people say that the 2F is better/more reliable. With the exception of less stroke and the shorter rod (which probably wouldnt make much of a power difference at this power level), i dont really see anything less stout on the 3-FE. On the other hand, its got EFI, electronic ignition, altitude compenstation, all the other goodies that come with EFI, shorter piston skirts (less friction/wear), better cylinder head, and a bigger cam. So unless its less durable because you have to spin it a little higher to reach the powerband, i dont see any reason why the 2F would be better.

Discuss.
PS I hope this pissed someone off

 

[tonkota]

I have both

 

[agent orange]

Well whats your impression of the two? Im skipping class so i thought a little bench racing would at least keep my mind alert while im technically wasting it.

 

[FJ40Jim]

They're both good engines.
The 2F is more cubes and a longer rod, so I prefer it.

Plus, 2F's only have manual trannies behind them, so I end up owning them by default.

 

[WHITCHCOCK]

I'm rebuilding my 3fe right now (PO didn't believe in valve adjustments, but did get a head gasket put in bassackwards) and have worked on many a 2f.

For simplicity there is nothing like the 2f, for performance the 3fe puts up better numbers and will do so more consistantly because of the EFI; however the auto soaks up any perfomance gains and then some and the 3fe is a emissions nightmare of vaccume lines.

That being said, I stuck with a 3fe when I did an engine rebuild. Why? I live in the flatlands and the motor provides plenty of power for the plonk around at 50mph that I do 90% of the time.

In a perfect world, I'd throw a h55f behind the 3fe and have a wonderful combination.

And again that being said, it won't happen - my wife loves driving my truck and really didn't ever learn to be comfortable with a stick.

 

[Godwin]

The 3FE side of my brain says that a 3FE with a manual tranny is best. Around town and on the open road the 3FE makes for a quicker Cruiser than one with a 2F. With EFI the engine cranks up and runs smooth no matter how cold, at least down in Dixie.

But the 2F side of my brain thinks that the 2F is the engine of choice. Simple, and when tight and well-tuned runs about as smooth as a 3FE. Works almost as well on the road, but it's in the muck and pulling a trailer where the 2F stands out from the 3FE. As JimC said, it has more cubes a longer rod which gives it more low end torque.

So that I don't go schizo I'm going to have to say that they're both best. Then again the 2F has a certain sort of character that seems to be lacking with the 3FE.

 

[tonkota]

I agree that both engines are good. I rebuilt my 3F once and I really think that it was never right. I swapped in the 2F for financial reasons and time constraints to begin with. I had only a week to swap and the 2F could be built before the swap. When I rebuilt my 3F, I had to buy another crank at $500. The entire 2F was only $450 and the rebuild parts were less expensive.

The autobox does soak up a bunch of power, but after driving it off-road, it's really easy to live with. I was thinking of finding a 5 spd, but I may do the valve body from Wholesale Automatics in AU. overhanger is very pleased with it.

All Toyota engines are very well built, with the exception of the 3.0 V6 (that's just my opinion).

 

[agent orange]

I know what you mean about the auto sucking up power, i pulled that s*** myself and its friggin huge, all those gearsets have got to soak up some power. Ive always thought that an auto tranny was better offroad because of the torque multiplication. I know that a stick puts more power to the ground, but i like being able to pay attention to where im goin and whether im flipping over instead of juggling clutch, shifter etc.

Of course im also a vagina.

 

[PolkLandbruiser]

3FE of course

I own a 62, have rebuilt the 3FE once already, and have to side with my powerplant. sure, i want a 40 or 60 with a 2f, but the 3fe really has more potential. the famed "2f block - 3FE head" swap leads me to believe that the engines are better when together. all i know is no one with a manual tranny has never gotten any further on the trail bcuz i was automatic. that's personal preference, and can see the advantages, but the auto also allows me to run 37s with the stock 4.11 gears...sure, i need 4.88s and want em, but don't have em, and tool around just find on trails and pavement.

 

[humper99]

Hybrid of the 3FE head and 2F block. Together they create more hp and torque than either separate plus you get EFI and a manual tranny. Drop this combination in a 60 and let the round headlights glow.

 

[agent orange]

I know they changed the block architecture on the 3-FE, does the 3F head just bolt up to a 2f longblock or did they redo headbolts or water passages or anything?

 

[tonkota]

Bolts right up. You can use either 3F or 2F head gasket. The gaskets are different, but both are fine to use.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Data points:

3F head bolts to 2F block.

2F head bolts to 3F block.

1985-newer 2F has the same head as 3F.

Replacement 1981-later 2F head is 85-newer 2/3F head.

2F and 3F of same vintage use same head gasket.

 

[lowtideride]

I have both.

I like how high the 3f winds out, the fuel injection, but it needs a manual tranny to translate more power to the ground.

My 3fe is in an 80 and I have raced it agianst my 60 many times. they are pretty evenly matched for the vehicles. Although my 60 is much larger (lifted,locked,geared,larger tires) ,the 80 is much heavier. making them about even.

its a close call. I like both of them.

 

[Dunbar]

In a perfect world, I'd throw a h55f behind the 3fe and have a wonderful combination.

I did that and love it. But don't let Overhanger overhear that I said so.

And again that being said, it won't happen - my wife loves driving my truck and really didn't ever learn to be comfortable with a stick.

My wife loves riding, I mean driving a stick. She grew up driving her fathers work trucks in the UP snowbelt.

Dunbar

 

[fowldarr]

I've had both (88 fj62, and currently an 84 fj60) and I have to say that I like the quirkiness of the 2f, and I think that I'll like it better if I ever get the bugs worked out. It only came into the family 5 weeks ago, so it's got a ways to go.

 

[agent orange]

This is just a random thought that would probably be a waste of money, but does anyone know if any roller rockers destined for other applications would fit? And while im on the same tack how about valves? I bet manley or someone makes something that would fit, they make nice undercut ones too.

 

[tonkota]

The rockers on an F engine are on a rocker shaft. Others like GM are on a stud. The 235, 216 etc were on shafts, but you don't see those hot rodded much.

 

[FJ40Jim]

With enough machine work, anything can be made to fit. SBC valves, 1.84/1.50aren't very difficult to fit.

 

[PabloCruise]

Data points:

3F head bolts to 2F block.

2F head bolts to 3F block.

1985-newer 2F has the same head as 3F.

Replacement 1981-later 2F head is 85-newer 2/3F head.

2F and 3F of same vintage use same head gasket.

So I would only see a compression bump by putting a 3FE head on certain vintage 2F's?

If I were to slap 3FE head on 2F block, which cam would be best to run for a combo street/trail rig - 4 spd, 4.11's, 33x12.50's?