3B turbo kits (1 Viewer)

[sisukid1975]

Hey all,

the 3B is going to Madison for a rebuild, and I'm in the market for my turbo kit.

So, AXT versus Turbo-Glide?

Who has experience with which?

AXT = Liquid cooled Garrett turbos, unknown if ball-bearing or not. 8lbs of boost. No intercooler is necessary since boost is so low. Many AXT distributors sell (and thus recommend) boost compensators.

Turbo-Glide: non-liquid-cooled Garrett turbos. Ball bearing optional. 9lbs of boost. Claims water cooled turbos on diesels are wasted, and needlessly complicated (thought the reasons are kinda dubious to me. Their logic is that if the engine's cooling system fails, the turbo won't be damaged but the rest of the engine will be. That's true no matter if you're running a liquid-cooled turbo or not....). T-G Does not recommend a boost compensator, says they are unnecessary on the 3B which mixes more than enough fuel for a good efficient burn with their turbo kit.

Prices between the two are similar, though Turbo-Glide may be cheaper since their quote includes installation and chassis dyno testing before and after. Needless to say, they won't be doing the installation or tuning here in Wisconsin since they are in Australia.



On another subject, I was thinking of increasing the boost to 10-12 pounds, and running an intercooler to compensate for the extra heat. Anyone ever done this? Any prognoses on long term durability boosting above 8-9 pounds that the AXT and Turbo-Glide kits run?

I wouldn't mind squeezing a bit more torque out of the 3B, but I don't want to sacrifice too much in durability. IE: if a 3B boosting 8 lbs will last 400,000 miles, and one boosting 10-12 lbs will last 350,000 miles, I can live with that. However, if it cuts the life in half, then I can't live with that.

It's a fine line between a bit more power, and a bit less long-term durability, and I'll make the trade-off up to a point.

Thanks for any advice,

Fred

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

Where did you find the prices were similar? i priced it out and got a ~$2,100 price from turboglide shipped. AXT's kit is more expensive than that...

Do you want to see if they woudl give us a discount if we order two? Save on shipping to the states at least.. I am in CO and NEEEEED a turbo to compesate for the 10,000 feet above sea level crap!

Kraig

 

[nickw]

Personally, I like the idea of a water cooled turbo.

As far as boost, you can adjust either turbo.

People say anything after 12lbs is not with it without an intercooler.
And that is the happy point between max boost, and too hot of air.

For an intercooler, I am going to do a hombrew one.
I will probably use one off a Saab. I might look at Audi intercoolers too.

As far as engine life.
I don't see a big differnce between 10 and 12 lbs max.
Its not often at max boost anyways.
It's not that extreme of difference. But I could be wrong.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[sisukid1975]

Where did you find the prices were similar? i priced it out and got a ~$2,100 price from turboglide shipped. AXT's kit is more expensive than that...

Do you want to see if they woudl give us a discount if we order two? Save on shipping to the states at least.. I am in CO and NEEEEED a turbo to compesate for the 10,000 feet above sea level crap!

Kraig

Ijust went off the installed price quoted off the website, which is about the same as an AXT kit. I assumed a DIY kit would be cheaper, and it seems I was right.

Was the $2100 US Dollars or $AUD?

 

[brownbear]

Or build your own turbo. 13b-t manifold and new garrett turbo set up to your engine specs. Save about 1000 or more.

New turbo 600-800, manifold 500, hoses and fittings, 100, gratification of doing it yourself...........priceless

 

[brownbear]

no need for watercooled IMOP or ball bearing, this is a 120 hp diesel running at 2-3K rpm. Not a high boost 300hp 9k rpm ricer........

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Agree on this statement, I have installed two Denco systems, they run out great and are priced right.

Install is almost a two banna as its mostly assembled and basically bolt on the manifold and turbo together, no clocking required.

Rob

no need for watercooled IMOP or ball bearing, this is a 120 hp diesel running at 2-3K rpm. Not a high boost 300hp 9k rpm ricer........

 

[brownbear]

Have you sold many kits? Posisitve feedback on the use?

I remember seeing those pictures awhile back. looked like a fine kit.

 

[Winslow]

I'm ready to purchase a Turbo Kit as well for my 2H. I'm with turbo glide. They sell a 2H kit for a bus, which I assume will work in the HJ just fine. PM me if you want to try a group buy. I will let the old EGT gauge determine what final boost should be. Saab intercoolers as supposed to work great, I however have A/C and no clue where to stuff the intercooler.

 

[sisukid1975]

... Saab intercoolers as supposed to work great, I however have A/C and no clue where to stuff the intercooler.

Yeah... I know what you mean. When I bought the fj60 most of the A/C parts were missing anyway, and I also have plans for a York on board compressor for air, so i was prepared to "sacrifice" the A/C for those two features...

But then I keep thinking "Am I really going to want to be driving around Central America in a non-converible Cruiser with no A/C?" Considering I can barely stand the heat during the summer in Wisconsin, it really has me thinking.


Choices, choices....

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Hi Fred,
I installed a turboglide on my 2H in a HJ60 fairly recently, and run it at 10punds at 2700 rpm, which gives a lot of power. No more backshifting on inclines on the highway, and plenty of power for overtaking and acceleration (with 33 in ch tires and 4.11 gears-but will go down to 3.73s soon).

The kit is extremely well made, and dealing with them was great. I ordered it, and it was here at the fedex pickup within 3 days. Total cost shipped was 2100US. Installation is not hard, but a bit different between 3B and 2H. I think it is even easier for the 3B, because you don't have to drill and weld the sideplate for the oil return.

The turbo has the setup for watercooling, you just have to add the hoses. However, I agree that I don't think it is necessary. These kits are ran without water forever in australia, and I assume they know what they are doing. I go for long drives in Baja in the summer, through very hot areas, and never had the truck run hotter than 210-and that is on long inclines.
The hottest it ever ran was driving to Moab last yer, through the Mojave, with 115 outside. Then I had to go slow (50 mph) to avoid overheating. I doubt that has to do with the turbo though.

Also, a lot about turbo cooling time and oil caking and such are myths, still well spread on this board. If you run synthetics there will be no oil burning/caking/sticking.

let me know if you need pics...

cheers,
Jan

 

[cruiser_guy]

I'll chime in on a few points.

The AXT has regular sleeve bearings.

I prefer the water cooling and if Central America is on your mind don't go expecting to find synthetic oil. You MIGHT find it but it is VERY rare. I found synthetic gear oil in only ONE place in Guatemala City and I was there for two years. Because of that the coking of the oil is a concern to me.

You CAN drive through Central America without A/C but you WON'T be comfortable unless you are high in the mountains. The coastal areas on the west and east as well as any jungle areas and places up to about 2000 feet altitude will be muggy. Our A/C is on ALL the time in Central America. My wife was opposed to installing it before we went but now is a firm believer! You will be too once you've spent a couple of hours crossing a border (all of which are hot and humid) and can get into your truck and crank the A/C.

As for turbo choices. The BJ60 was the first turbo install I did and I splurged on the AXT kit. It is well suited to the engine and spools up fine. I made a small change to the water lines that allow me to remove the valve cover without removing the turbo. The AXT kit is supplied with an adaptor to the turbo and then an elbow but to clear properly you need a combination adaptor/elbow next to the valve cover or your turbo will be clocked poorly and you'll have difficulty removing the valve cover. The FJ55 has a Volvo turbo I believe but we still need to properly set up boost and fuel. It rarely gets to 6 lbs or 900F while the BJ60 will reach 10+lbs and 1250F under HARD climbing in Central America. The FJ45LV is getting a 13B-T manifold and I'm still on the hunt for the turbo but I think I'll get a water and oil cooled one again.

For the record, my EGT is measured pre-turbo on ALL vehicles.

Winslow, the EGT's do NOT tell you what the boost is. They do relate but not in a way you can easily be explained and not in a way that I'd forgo a boost or EGT gage. Generally EGT's are lower at higher RPM's but under heavy load you can get both maximum boost AND maximum EGT's.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Only sold two kits and installed, the one kit went all the way from Vancouver Island to somewhere in South America and back to Cali.

Seems to be still working well.

Second one has two years of daily driving.

Rob

Have you sold many kits? Posisitve feedback on the use?

I remember seeing those pictures awhile back. looked like a fine kit.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I would like to try this kit, hear nothing but good things about it.

Hi Fred,
I installed a turboglide on my 2H in a HJ60 fairly recently, and run it at 10punds at 2700 rpm, which gives a lot of power. No more backshifting on inclines on the highway, and plenty of power for overtaking and acceleration (with 33 in ch tires and 4.11 gears-but will go down to 3.73s soon).

The kit is extremely well made, and dealing with them was great. I ordered it, and it was here at the fedex pickup within 3 days. Total cost shipped was 2100US. Installation is not hard, but a bit different between 3B and 2H. I think it is even easier for the 3B, because you don't have to drill and weld the sideplate for the oil return.

The turbo has the setup for watercooling, you just have to add the hoses. However, I agree that I don't think it is necessary. These kits are ran without water forever in australia, and I assume they know what they are doing. I go for long drives in Baja in the summer, through very hot areas, and never had the truck run hotter than 210-and that is on long inclines.
The hottest it ever ran was driving to Moab last yer, through the Mojave, with 115 outside. Then I had to go slow (50 mph) to avoid overheating. I doubt that has to do with the turbo though.

Also, a lot about turbo cooling time and oil caking and such are myths, still well spread on this board. If you run synthetics there will be no oil burning/caking/sticking.

let me know if you need pics...

cheers,
Jan

 

[sisukid1975]

Cruiserguy:

Did you opt for the boost compensator/fuel enrichment aneroid with the AXT kit?

Many AXT resellers (like Ray Hall Turbocharging and Geoff Walsh I believe) state they recommend the aneroid? Yet turboglide claims that the 3B mixes enough fuel to burn cleanly with the amount of boost provided.

I talked to one guy here on the board who has a 3B with AXT in a 70 series, and he reports no unusual amounts of smoke out of the exhaust or any of that. Just curious if your AXT experiences mirror that???

Of course like I said, I might think about boosting more than the 8-9 lbs that these kits seem to produce, and if I do, I could possibly end up with a lean-running engine which means I might have to go with a boost compensator. (And an intercooler, depending on what the charge air and EGT temps wind up being...

But, out of the box with your AXT have you have any fuel mixture issues like running too rich/too lean? Specifically, I've read articles in australian magazines that say many people run too rich at low RPMS, and too lean at high RPMS...


And central America is on my mind, but I don't plan on living there for long periods like you do. At least not yet. WHo knows, maybe I'll find a nice piece of land in Costa Rica... We are planning just a 3 or 4 month run down there and back, to coincide with my wife's sabbatical. For a short couple month trip, I'm sure I could pack along enough Delvac 1 to get me though.

 

[Jan-78FJ40]

Cruiserguy:

Did you opt for the boost compensator/fuel enrichment aneroid with the AXT kit?

Many AXT resellers (like Ray Hall Turbocharging and Geoff Walsh I believe) state they recommend the aneroid? Yet turboglide claims that the 3B mixes enough fuel to burn cleanly with the amount of boost provided.

I talked to one guy here on the board who has a 3B with AXT in a 70 series, and he reports no unusual amounts of smoke out of the exhaust or any of that. Just curious if your AXT experiences mirror that???

Of course like I said, I might think about boosting more than the 8-9 lbs that these kits seem to produce, and if I do, I could possibly end up with a lean-running engine which means I might have to go with a boost compensator. (And an intercooler, depending on what the charge air and EGT temps wind up being...

But, out of the box with your AXT have you have any fuel mixture issues like running too rich/too lean? Specifically, I've read articles in australian magazines that say many people run too rich at low RPMS, and too lean at high RPMS...


And central America is on my mind, but I don't plan on living there for long periods like you do. At least not yet. WHo knows, maybe I'll find a nice piece of land in Costa Rica... We are planning just a 3 or 4 month run down there and back, to coincide with my wife's sabbatical. For a short couple month trip, I'm sure I could pack along enough Delvac 1 to get me though.

do you know how the aneroid works? I know three 3Bs with AXT turbos, and none of them overfuel at low rpms.
To regulate the fuel you'd have to regulate what gets to the injector from the injector pump, and then return it to the tank-which seems rather complicated on a 3B.
j

 

[brownbear]

I thought the aneroid was for guys who have the altitude compensator on there inejction pumps???? no?

Or does the aneroid limit fuel untill the boost is on? How does it hook up to standard injection pump with out the compensator?

I don't think I would bother with the aneroid. As many guys on here say when they turbo'd and put in gauges they found they were hitting max temps while at stock position on the pump. They did not need to crank the fuel up.

3b's get smoking hot under load NA. So the turbo just brings it down and uses the extra fuel that is there already.

 

[sisukid1975]

do you know how the aneroid works? j

Not really, and it's one of the things I'm trying to figure out... I suppose it is the mechanical version of what newer electronically injected diesels like the TDIs, Duramax and powerstrokes are doing: somehow changing the governance on the fuel flow based on the number of pounds the turbo is pushing.

I don't know how it specifically works, or whether it's necessary. That's why I'm asking.

The consensus seems to be that it is not necessary or useful....

 

[cruiser_guy]

As many guys on here say when they turbo'd and put in gauges they found they were hitting max temps while at stock position on the pump. They did not need to crank the fuel up.

This is my experience as well! There does not appear to be any issues with over or under fuelling that I have noticed. Do not be misled, the AXT is capable of pushing much more than 8-9 lbs. I have seen mine hit 14 - 15 when the wastegate is sticky!

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

Just to bring back the idea... I will start a thread about getting interest for a Group Buy on TurboGlide kits.

2100 is pretty nice, but discounts are our friends!

Kraig