300 Series Land Cruiser wish list *Toyota Please Read*

[mcgaskins]

Is this better? A little more applicable than sub 2.0 turbo motors in sedans.

The Chevrolet Silverado Four-Cylinder Gets Worse Fuel Economy Than the V-8 in Our Test

Here's more proof that downsizing and turbocharging have their limits.

www.caranddriver.com

There's definitely a balancing act when you start putting 4 cylinder motors into full size-ish vehicles. I think most would agree that Ford in their V6s gets it "most right." And obviously use is going to have drastic differences in economy for turbo motors, unloaded it could be great, but under heavy loads like towing, not so much.

More relevant no doubt as it's current and discusses trucks. I personally don't like the idea of small displacement turbo engines in large, heavy, un-aerodynamic trucks and SUVs, but they're perfect for small cars with low drag coefficient. If the 300 ends up with a relatively small displacement turbo, I'd be thrilled (as many would be here) because I think the V8 200 will stay very desirable and valuable just like the V8 Raptors when they went forced induction.

 

[bloc]

And obviously use is going to have drastic differences in economy for turbo motors, unloaded it could be great, but under heavy loads like towing, not so much.

And to that end, apparently ford went back to a pushrod valvetrain on their new 7.3L gas engine in the superduty line. Ironically, to make it more fuel efficient when towing.

Why Ford Made a New 7.3-Liter Gas Pushrod V8 in 2019

A new overhead-valve 7.3-liter V8 seems totally backwards in 2019, but a Ford engineer explained to us why the Super Duty's new motor makes perfect sense

www.roadandtrack.com

 

[JohnJB]

And to that end, apparently ford went back to a pushrod valvetrain on their new 7.3L gas engine in the superduty line. Ironically, to make it more fuel efficient when towing.

Why Ford Made a New 7.3-Liter Gas Pushrod V8 in 2019

A new overhead-valve 7.3-liter V8 seems totally backwards in 2019, but a Ford engineer explained to us why the Super Duty's new motor makes perfect sense

www.roadandtrack.com

Yea, I doubt we'll see turbo gas motors in HD trucks for a few more years. The biggest issue is durability along with the power needs as mentioned in that article. If Ford doesn't think it'll make their fleet customers happy, they won't take the chance, and fleet customers want known tech built on durable and serviceable design. That new 7.3 is a very cool motor for something that is so old tech. Same deal with the new Chevy 6.6 HD motor. And FCA is rumored to be working on a 7.0 Hemi for their HD trucks that'll make ~500hp.

 

[Markuson]

What I find most encouraging is that even if Toyota doesn't cater to the tiny US LC market...they DO think carefully about the HUGE Tundra market.

So...if the LC shares the engine with the Tundra (and it probably will), then it would make sense that whatever they find adequate for general grunt and towing in the big Tundra they plop in their big pickup truck will most likely carry over.

 

[Canyonero]

I will just chime in with my anecdotal experience on Ford's 2nd Gen 3.5 Ecoboost - I have it in my 2018 F150 Platinum.

The truck is an absolute beast. No question. I've owned a lot of trucks and vehicles generally, including 2 different 5.7 V8 applications (Tundra and LC200), and the 3.5 in the Ford is just a monster compared to those engines. Note that I live a mile above sea level.

I travel to Pine, CO and back regularly - 90 miles round trip - and my F150 normally achieves 22mpg on that round trip. That's a truck that can tow 12,700 pounds, is a 4x4 with a locker. That's damned impressive.

Will it last? Who knows. I've got 15,000 trouble free miles on it now though. I realize that isn't much - but fully 35% of those miles are towing miles.

I think the jury is out on what is possible from "turbo'd" engines in terms of QDR. If anyone can figure out the QDR on a turbo powerplant for a truck, it's Toyota.

 

[Markuson]

I will just chime in with my anecdotal experience on Ford's 2nd Gen 3.5 Ecoboost - I have it in my 2018 F150 Platinum.

The truck is an absolute beast. No question. I've owned a lot of trucks and vehicles generally, including 2 different 5.7 V8 applications (Tundra and LC200), and the 3.5 in the Ford is just a monster compared to those engines. Note that I live a mile above sea level.

I travel to Pine, CO and back regularly - 90 miles round trip - and my F150 normally achieves 22mpg on that round trip. That's a truck that can tow 12,700 pounds, is a 4x4 with a locker. That's damned impressive.

Will it last? Who knows. I've got 15,000 trouble free miles on it now though. I realize that isn't much - but fully 35% of those miles are towing miles.

I think the jury is out on what is possible from "turbo'd" engines in terms of QDR. If anyone can figure out the QDR on a turbo powerplant for a truck, it's Toyota.

That’s encouraging.
Have you had an opportunity to experience its ability to deal with towing anything heavy? Curious about torque at various rpms under heavy load.

 

[TonyP]

One could always put on a nice shirt and head to their local Lexus dealer to drive the LS500 to get a (very) ballpark feel for the potentially new engine. I would but I own no nice shirts and rolling up to a dealer in a haggard '84 633CSi won't buy me much cred when trying to test drive a $75k luxo-barge.

 

[Canyonero]

That’s encouraging.
Have you had an opportunity to experience its ability to deal with towing anything heavy? Curious about torque at various rpms under heavy load.

My usual towing is a 5,000lb travel trailer, so nothing really pushing the limits. But it’s faster towing the 5k than my 200 was empty—and getting better mileage at the same time.

 

[Markuson]

My usual towing is a 5,000lb travel trailer, so nothing really pushing the limits. But it’s faster towing the 5k than my 200 was empty—and getting better mileage at the same time.

Thanks.
5k trailer is plenty for the general impression I was looking for. Lots of engineers here looking for exact this and that. I’m just thinking about 8300lb-ish Cruisers, maybe a small trailer...and how that engine felt. Sounds pretty good to me. Too bad you’re not at 150,000k miles, bc that would shed light on the other end of the swirling questions.

One thing that maybe you could also answer though is low speed grunt and rpms needed to slowly pull up steep stuff (like a really steep driveway). Thinking about what we do in Moab—all day low speed inclines.

 

[Canyonero]

Thanks.
5k trailer is plenty for the general impression I was looking for. Lots of engineers here looking for exact this and that. I’m just thinking about 8300lb-ish Cruisers, maybe a small trailer...and how that engine felt. Sounds pretty good to me. Too bad you’re not at 150,000k miles, bc that would shed light on the other end of the swirling questions.

One thing that maybe you could also answer though is low speed grunt and rpms needed to slowly pull up steep stuff (like a really steep driveway). Thinking about what we do in Moab—all day low speed inclines.

The 10 speed along with 470lb ft of torque at very low rpm make pulls off the line effortless. The 10 speed has been phenomenal, honestly. Tons of power, not even noticeable when shuffling through gears.

I’m pretty picky about transmissions, too. My LC500 Had an 8 speed and it wasn’t as smooth as the Fords 10-speed.

 

[Markuson]

The 10 speed along with 470lb ft of torque at very low rpm make pulls off the line effortless. The 10 speed has been phenomenal, honestly. Tons of power, not even noticeable when shuffling through gears.

I’m pretty picky about transmissions, too. My LC500 Had an 8 speed and it wasn’t as smooth as the Fords 10-speed.

You just used past tense referring to your LC 500. Does that mean you’ve already sold it?

 

[Canyonero]

You just used past tense referring to your LC 500. Does that mean you’ve already sold it?

Yes sir, now enjoying a fun little Porsche Cayman 718 GTS manual.

 

[coleAK]

One could always put on a nice shirt and head to their local Lexus dealer to drive the LS500 to get a (very) ballpark feel for the potentially new engine. I would but I own no nice shirts and rolling up to a dealer in a haggard '84 633CSi won't buy me much cred when trying to test drive a $75k luxo-barge.

I was in my local dealer two weeks ago to get an oil filter cartridge. They had an LS in the show room, not my cup of tea but The craftsmanship and luxary in the interior reminds me have cars that cost double what it does.

 

[Markuson]

Yes sir, now enjoying a fun little Porsche Cayman 718 GTS manual.

Man you need to get together with Matt Gaskins. I swear you both go through cars faster then I go through a tub of sour cream… Ha ha

 

[Tex68w]

The 10 speed along with 470lb ft of torque at very low rpm make pulls off the line effortless. The 10 speed has been phenomenal, honestly. Tons of power, not even noticeable when shuffling through gears.

I’m pretty picky about transmissions, too. My LC500 Had an 8 speed and it wasn’t as smooth as the Fords 10-speed.

While I am glad to hear that you have been enjoying your Eco-Boost there are multiple others who have very different experiences with them. I find them gutless when loaded down and I have personal experience with it in a regular F-150, the hopped up version in the Raptor, and one in the new Expedition. In regards to the 10-speed transmission I know for a fact that they've had issues as my father has had his Raptor in multiple times for hard shifting and there is a TSB/Recall for it on that vehicle. Most people down here near sea-level don't get anywhere close to the quoted fuel economy with these motors either.

It appears that 4cyl and 6cyl turbo'd motors are the future in a lot of manufacturers eyes, but I don't think that the end-all answer is where it needs to be for that platform just yet. I'd personally still opt for 2-4mpg's less with a more powerful and much more reliable NA V-8 for the time being.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

n: locking diffs front and rear
n+1: remove majority of whiz-bang electronics
n+2: Manual transmission option
n+3: cloth interior option
n+4: No more than 25% more expensive than equivalent trim level 4Runner.

 

[Linh Pham]

I just wish they test NCAP, IIHS, NHTSA... and publish the video clips

 

[Climbingnut]

So, reading through this I get the idea that people generally want a V8 petrol or diesel powered troopy on an 80 series chassis (rear coils), that is somehow unibody so the 2nd/3rd row seats can fold down flat, with 200 series comforts and tech and yet can still carry a massive tank while being fuel efficient, fitting 33” tires from the factory and conquering Moab!

If I was a Toyota engineer I’d be showing all my colleagues this thread so we could get a good laugh and then crack on with real life.

 

[linuxgod]

So, reading through this I get the idea that people generally want a V8 petrol or diesel powered troopy on an 80 series chassis (rear coils), that is somehow unibody so the 2nd/3rd row seats can fold down flat, with 200 series comforts and tech and yet can still carry a massive tank while being fuel efficient, fitting 33” tires from the factory and conquering Moab!

If I was a Toyota engineer I’d be showing all my colleagues this thread so we could get a good laugh and then crack on with real life.

You could fold the 3rd row flat into the floor, or gain a bunch of trunk depth, if the spare tire was mounted to the rear bumper (or D-pillar area like they offer overseas) and the floor was lowered. Just sayin'

 

[ElTeaKay]

These suggested improvements below are based upon my experience with a 2020 Land Cruiser Heritage Edition, combined with having owned Lexus LX and GX models in addition to previous model 100 and 200 series Toyota Land Cruisers over the past two decades:

1. Fuel fill on driver side (regardless of market served). Driver side on left, fuel fill on left. Driver side on right, fuel fill on right.
2. Smaller headrest for second row, middle seat - or option to securely store the removed headrest inside the vehicle when not in use. In the 2020 LC HE the headrest is full size (great for safety of passenger), which, when in place, is large enough to hide a small car or object as seen from the rear view mirror.
3. Headlights that track with steering direction.
4. Remote engine start/stop from key fob and/or mobile app.
5. Adjustable suspension similar to LX, both height and stiffness. Though it's understandable it's important to keep reliability top on the list, this option would be lovely.
6. A selectable 2WD option for city driving or highway driving when 4WD isn't needed (again, likely full time 4WD for fewer moving parts, but other manufacturers have figured this out).
7. Heads Up Display
8. Larger drink/bottle holders in door pockets
9. Panoramic sun/moon roof
10. Puddle lights for ingress and egress
11. Put Climate Control with the rest of the controls. The Climate button to control fan speed, four zone, etc. is separate from the other buttons such as Nav, Apps, and Phone. And/or provide a manual control for fan speed in the climate button cluster.
12. Compass heading readout in the rear view mirror.
13. Upgrade the tech. This is another vote for Apple Car Play/Android Auto from other posts in this thread. We are using technology in a 2020 vehicle that was developed in the last refresh half a decade ago. Please keep up with other manufacturers - or at least keep up with your Lexus sibling.
14. Option to stop the automatic hatch lift. Having the lift assist on the rear hatch is great until it crunches the hatch into the garage (or other low object just above). Being able to manually stop it would be nice.
15. Deploy the rear wiper from beneath the spoiler. Not only does it hide nicely away from view or the baking sun to prematurely wear/crack the rubber wiper blade, it also wipes snow off downward rather than up and over. Range Rover figured this out, as did Lexus.
16. Illuminated buttons on roof cluster. In the dark, one is left guessing which button is being pushed for a map light or any other control on the roof cluster above the rear view mirror.
17. Option to turn off the courtesy lights in footwells and doors.
18. Diesel option for the U.S. market. Pay attention to other domestic and foreign manufacturers who offer this option on SUVs (Range Rover, Jeep), and domestic manufacturers offering it on lighter duty vehicles (Chevrolet, Dodge). Yes, we want enough torque to pull a house and diesel is the answer. (Unless hybrid electric or full electric is discussed, then pay attention to Rivian.)
19. Interior Rear Hatch Open. This is a safety feature that will come in handy if the vehicle finds itself in water to allow occupants to escape when/if egress through a door is not an option.
20. A place for smartphones to sit on the dash or center console. Though the 'charging garage' in front of the shift lever at the bottom of the center stack on the dash is nice, it's awkward for when your passenger needs to put their phone somewhere.