3 speed vs 4 speed Questions

[Rock40]

Not sure I would trash the three speed that much. Plenty of them still around even attached to V8s. Once the four speeds came out some markets switched back to a three speed because of how simple they are to work on with just simple hand tools. It was for this reason rural locations that wasn't just a matter of calling a tow truck continued to use the three speed. Common knowledge you can use the early one piece case with the four speed. There is also a gear to use later one piece case with a three speed. After the four speed was NLA available you could still get new three speeds from Toyota. The mid 63 on three speed had a much longer run then the sixteen spline tailshaft four speed which tend to wear. I've even heard Toyota used the three speed with a split transfer case in a few markets. Not saying the three speed is as nice as the four speed but certainly wasn't junk and pretty reliable. When you say they fell apart when you took them apart that was by design not needing a press like the four speed.

Well, this is an opinion column. My 40 had a 3 speed for many years and I drove it many, many miles during time both on and off road. Simply put, I'd never go back to it. And when I said they fell apart, I meant actually FELL APART and not during disassembly. Multiple input bearings with separated races and those were behind both stock Toyota "F" and V8 engines.

The stock 3 speed transfer case can be made to be quite reliable if properly rebuilt and braced up. I've managed to spin some bearings and that's about it.

 

[Rock40]

No plans to hardcore wheel. I just like to get on tight two-track roads and explore areas most cars can't get to.

If you're even considering it, go with a 4 speed or an H55, you won't regret it in the long run. It all depends on how "stock" you want to keep your truck

 

[TacoJonn]

If you're even considering it, go with a 4 speed or an H55, you won't regret it in the long run. It all depends on how "stock" you want to keep your truck

Gonna keep a 2nd FJ fairly stock. I am not into the whole tall lift, massive tires and flexing scene. My 78 has a moderate lift but nothing extreme. I like the looks of these things they way they were designed.

 

[cjgoode]

If you have a 78 already, then definitely keep this one stock is what I would do. I have a 1962 three on the tree and a 1980 4 on the floor that I need to rebuild still. Looking at the picture of Rock40's truck, yeah you would never want one looking like that with a 3 speed. With reasonable sized tires, 3speed and transfer case are extremely solid and reliable. My 1970 had 30 inch tires and we would go up steep hills with all tires spinning until we either lost all traction or it stalled the engine and had to roll back down. One hill my fj40 with a three on the tree was the only one going up and over the top. Jeeps did not have enough weight to keep the traction, trucks with long wheel basis could not crest the lip, most could not make it half way. But back then trucks were close to stock, some slightly larger tires. You rarely ever saw anything on larger then 33 inch tires. Totally different times that is for sure.

 

[TacoJonn]

If you have a 78 already, then definitely keep this one stock is what I would do. I have a 1962 three on the tree and a 1980 4 on the floor that I need to rebuild still. Looking at the picture of Rock40's truck, yeah you would never want one looking like that with a 3 speed. With reasonable sized tires, 3speed and transfer case are extremely solid and reliable. My 1970 had 30 inch tires and we would go up steep hills with all tires spinning until we either lost all traction or it stalled the engine and had to roll back down. One hill my fj40 with a three on the tree was the only one going up and over the top. Jeeps did not have enough weight to keep the traction, trucks with long wheel basis could not crest the lip, most could not make it half way. But back then trucks were close to stock, some slightly larger tires. You rarely ever saw anything on larger then 33 inch tires. Totally different times that is for sure.

The 78 you see in my avatar pic is totally restored. It was my Dad's he finished a few years ago. It has the original 4 speed in it. I plan on not really doing anything to this. If I do, it will be minor (maybe adding original wheels back into the mix).
Before my Dad died I told him I was going to get an FJ of my own, and I still want to do that. Seeing how FJ prices are not going down anytime soon, I am considering an older 3 speed but would rather have a 4 speed for sure. Finding a mechanically sound FJ with questionable body would be okay for me. I just want a 2nd FJ for getting dirty. My Dad's is too mint to take on any serious trails.

 

[ryanwk628]

The 78 you see in my avatar pic is totally restored. It was my Dad's he finished a few years ago. It has the original 4 speed in it. I plan on not really doing anything to this. If I do, it will be minor (maybe adding original wheels back into the mix).
Before my Dad died I told him I was going to get an FJ of my own, and I still want to do that. Seeing how FJ prices are not going down anytime soon, I am considering an older 3 speed but would rather have a 4 speed for sure. Finding a mechanically sound FJ with questionable body would be okay for me. I just want a 2nd FJ for getting dirty. My Dad's is too mint to take on any serious trails.

If you already have a 78, I would think you would want to get another similar one. Going to a 3 speed will feel like a step backwards and you may find yourself longing for that extra gear. It would also be worthwhile just for the sake of common parts and familiarity IMO.

 

[TacoJonn]

If you already have a 78, I would think you would want to get another similar one. Going to a 3 speed will feel like a step backwards and you may find yourself longing for that extra gear. It would also be worthwhile just for the sake of common parts and familiarity IMO.

I think any FJ will feel like a step backwards compared to my Dad's 78 haha. Essentially I will be looking for a "beater" FJ I guess. I guess my psychology here might be a little tough to understand for other people. I treasure the FJ my dad left me. I will drive it, just not too often. I kind of want an FJ I can scrape up and occasionally dent without worrying about it too much. Not sure if that makes much sense to anyone else but that is my thinking....

 

[Living in the Past]

When did they start putting the 3 speed on the floor?

It was always available as a floor shift. It was standard in Australia. US market got a reverse light standard with the 68 model. Seen floor shift plates that aren't tapped for the reverse light switch which would date earlier then 68. Toyota really pushed the seven seats for seven husky men with all their equipment. For this reason we got only column shifts. But I guess if you knew how to do it you could have ordered the parts. Their listed in the micro-fishe I have for early cruisers. The one for the 61 to mid 63 three speed are extremely hard to find.

 

[ryanwk628]

I think any FJ will feel like a step backwards compared to my Dad's 78 haha. Essentially I will be looking for a "beater" FJ I guess. I guess my psychology here might be a little tough to understand for other people. I treasure the FJ my dad left me. I will drive it, just not too often. I kind of want an FJ I can scrape up and occasionally dent without worrying about it too much. Not sure if that makes much sense to anyone else but that is my thinking....

It makes sense. You have a nice 40 and want one to enjoy without messing that one up. My logic personally would be to get one as close as possible so they have the as many common parts as possible. Same water pump, carb, trans etc. If you're unsure about the 3 speed compared to the 4 speed as in if you should consider one, drive one the next time one pops up on craigslist and see how you feel. My 3 speed is my first 3 speed vehicle and I definitely notice its limitations. Still up in the air about what I am going to do. Id love to go H55 but that is a long way out.

 

[TacoJonn]

It makes sense. You have a nice 40 and want one to enjoy without messing that one up. My logic personally would be to get one as close as possible so they have the as many common parts as possible. Same water pump, carb, trans etc. If you're unsure about the 3 speed compared to the 4 speed as in if you should consider one, drive one the next time one pops up on craigslist and see how you feel. My 3 speed is my first 3 speed vehicle and I definitely notice its limitations. Still up in the air about what I am going to do. Id love to go H55 but that is a long way out.

I will keep my eyes open for a 4 speed for sure. Apart from Craigslist, do you guys recommend any good sources for FJ40 classifieds?

 

[Living in the Past]

It makes sense. You have a nice 40 and want one to enjoy without messing that one up. My logic personally would be to get one as close as possible so they have the as many common parts as possible. Same water pump, carb, trans etc. If you're unsure about the 3 speed compared to the 4 speed as in if you should consider one, drive one the next time one pops up on craigslist and see how you feel. My 3 speed is my first 3 speed vehicle and I definitely notice its limitations. Still up in the air about what I am going to do. Id love to go H55 but that is a long way out.

Also have to keep in mind it wasn't until the 73 model the frame and tub were designed to use a four speed. If your looking to standardize parts between two vehicles best to get another one around the original one. I installed a four speed in my 68 without cutting the frame or tub. Removing and installing the transmission and transfer case is a lot more work.

 

[jakek2525]

You will be just fine with the 3spd for minor trails and light off roading. They were used successfully for many years, in all parts of the world. Mine survived my high school years behind a 350hp.V-8 and was still going strong, when I took it out for a more user friendly 4spd.

 

[OverLand Cruisers]

How so? Gotta wind it out more?

It makes sense. You have a nice 40 and want one to enjoy without messing that one up. My logic personally would be to get one as close as possible so they have the as many common parts as possible. Same water pump, carb, trans etc.

Excellent advice. Anything from 10/75-12/78 would make a great companion for the '78 your Dad left you (awesome story!), parts compatibility would be pretty solid across that range. Not a huge deal but it would make stockpiling and categorizing parts much easier. Between all of the different 4WD Toyotas and different generation of FJ40 parts I have it gets confusing if I don't keep things properly labeled and on the right shelves.

Figure out how much you can spend and don't be in a hurry. Craigslist can be okay but you can end up spending a lot traveling to look at rigs, buying one sight unseen isn't recommended. Don't let the artificially inflated list prices of some (many?) you see on ebay and CL get you thinking that you can't find a good one for less than a fortune.

The classifieds here on Mud are your friend.

 

[Tim71FJ40]

I have a 4spd trans I will sell if you need one.

 

[tlc762]

I have 4 early 3 speed era cruisers... only one is currently street driven, on it I switched to a 4 speed for the full syncro transmission with the V8 conversion but kept the 3 speed era tcase for the lower gearing. This also allowed me to keep the stock length driveshafts (trans is 3+ inches longer than the three speed to make up the difference in drive train length). I was still out of gears to shift up to at around 30-35 mph with the 4 speed, hence the swap to 3.70 difs when I added the rear discs and locker. And with the V8 I have plenty of torque/horses to turn the wheels with 33x10 bfgs.
Now on my two ranch cruisers I run the original 3 speed trans/tcase and 4.11 gears. I usually drive them in 4 wheel low range with the hubs locked. I start in 2nd gear usually and drive in 3rd on the ranch roads and downshift to 2nd for hills... I will swap out the 12x15 bias mud grips for 31x10s when the pocketbook has spare change to help out the '72s crawl ability and get rid of the 2 1/2 inch shackles, the 69 runs 30x8 airplane tires(22 ply-flat proof recaps) and crawls fine. My second 74 is under the knife currently and will probably keep the 3 speed as well since it is being built for the wife...
HTH,
Will

 

[Tancruiser]

Where in Wyoming are you ? I have a 4speed and case I would sell reasonably here in Colorado.

 

[shawnfj40]

One thing that I have learned about the 3 speed is, you are always in the wrong gear. The 4 speed is far superior on or off the trail. Just from a drivability vuepoint.

 

[David70FJ40]

After owning two FJ40's with 3 speeds, I have to say a 4 speed tranny is superior in how it drives. However, the H55 is head and shoulders above the 4 speed!

 

[Honger]

I could have picked up a 4-speed and swapped it in during the restoration... but the gearing didn't seem all that beneficial in the scheme of things. I've kept my 3-speed and completely rebuilt it. I actually enjoy it. Sure it doesn't have a synchro between 1 and 2... but its fine between 2 and 3. A 4-speed would have just meant more shifting.

I am slowly putting together what I need for a 5-speed conversion to an H55 though. =)

 

[TacoJonn]

Where in Wyoming are you ? I have a 4speed and case I would sell reasonably here in Colorado.

I live in Cheyenne, but my girlfriend is from Steamboat. I was there a couple of weeks ago and saw quite a few 40's. Some in great shape and some like this at the local bike shop. This one is on snow plow duty (I seem to see a lot of 40's on plow duty). If I end up with a 3 speed 40 I will holler at you!