3 speed vs 4 speed Questions

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TacoJonn

TacoJonn

Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Threads
15
Messages
98
Location
Wyoming
Hey friends,
Curious what the main differences might be in the 3 speed vs 4 speed. I know the 4 speed was added later in the 70's and is generally considered more desirable than the 3 speed. However, I watched a video from a Jonathan Ward (ICON/TLC) where he states he almost prefers the gear spread on the 3 speed and that ultimately the final drive gear is still 1:1.
I am wondering what the driving dynamics might be in the 3 speed and how it the shifting differs. Also, what year did the 3 on the tree move to a 3 on the floor? Final question, what is this lever for (see circled area in image)? At first I thought it was a parking brake but I see the typical parking brake is still in these older FJ's.

Lots of questions there. Thanks for help

dashlever.webp
 
Top gear in both is 1:1.
The 4spd is a better driving trans.
The lever is the vacuum shift for the transfer case.
 
Don't forget either, that the 3 speed has a non-synchro'd first gear. Having driven both, I'm very happy I upgraded to the 4 speed. If you are going with a full on resto, then absolutely keep the 3 speed. And I do think the 3 on the tree is retro cool. But for driveability, choose the 4 speed.

:cheers:
 
And what exactly does the vacuum shift for the transfer case do? Why isn't it on later models?
 
FF LC FREAK said:
Don't forget either, that the 3 speed has a non-synchro'd first gear. Having driven both, I'm very happy I upgraded to the 4 speed. If you are going with a full on resto, then absolutely keep the 3 speed. And I do think the 3 on the tree is retro cool. But for driveability, choose the 4 speed.

:cheers:
Click to expand...

I have my Dad's 78 (which I treasure), but eventually I do want to get another FJ. A 2nd FJ would be more of a usable truck that I could take out, get dirty, and not fear damaging as much. Would sink some money into but not go full resto. Given that 3 speeds are cheaper, I am highly considering that option. What do you guys think?
 
TacoJonn said:
How so? Gotta wind it out more?
Click to expand...

the last gear is 1:1, and they have one less other gear to get there.
been a while since i had a vac shift but one knob shifts if from 2h to 4h, the lever takes it from 4h to 4l...iirc
 
Doesn't the 4 speed give you a lower 1st gear?
 
TacoJonn said:
And what exactly does the vacuum shift for the transfer case do? Why isn't it on later models?
Click to expand...
The vacuum shift shifts the transfer case from 2WD to 4WD. It's not found on the later (newer) trucks because Toyota upgraded to a more reliable mechanical shift mechanism. Mechanical shift=pull/push the lever on the floor by hand.

Yes, the 4 speed has a lower 1st gear ratio. The 4 speed is 3.55:1 compared to the 2.75:1 on the 3 speed trans. Overall, the 4 speed gear splits are much more conducive to street driving and the synchronized 1st gear is a big positive. Yes, you will have to rev the snot of a three speed equipped truck for just about every shift.

Like others have said above, I wouldn't use the 3 speed unless I was doing a period specific resto. It's a poorly designed and inherently week transmission which is not street friendly in the least. I'm not kidding when I say that most of the three speed transmissions I've taken apart over the years have literally FALLEN apart. The input bearing especially is prone to failure and everything follows after that. There are much better options out there and the Toyota 4 speed is certainly one of them.
 
Rock40 said:
Like others have said above, I wouldn't use the 3 speed unless I was doing a period specific resto. It's a poorly designed and inherently week transmission which is not street friendly in the least. I'm not kidding when I say that most of the three speed transmissions I've taken apart over the years have literally FALLEN apart. The input bearing especially is prone to failure and everything follows after that. There are much better options out there and the Toyota 4 speed is certainly one of them.
Click to expand...

Not sure I would trash the three speed that much. Plenty of them still around even attached to V8s. Once the four speeds came out some markets switched back to a three speed because of how simple they are to work on with just simple hand tools. It was for this reason rural locations that wasn't just a matter of calling a tow truck continued to use the three speed. Common knowledge you can use the early one piece case with the four speed. There is also a gear to use later one piece case with a three speed. After the four speed was NLA available you could still get new three speeds from Toyota. The mid 63 on three speed had a much longer run then the sixteen spline tailshaft four speed which tend to wear. I've even heard Toyota used the three speed with a split transfer case in a few markets. Not saying the three speed is as nice as the four speed but certainly wasn't junk and pretty reliable. When you say they fell apart when you took them apart that was by design not needing a press like the four speed.
 
FJ62's have a vacuum shifted split case

Dyno
 
Optional in '71, standard in '72.
 
The giant emergency looking brake handle is a mechanical shift from hi, neutral lo for the transfer case. There is a big pull knob next to it, when you pull the silver handle it should have a pin that pulls out that knob that actuates the vacuum shifter from 2WD to 4WD.

Like they said, 4 speed is synchronized, 3 speed is not, so you have to come to a full stop for the most part to go back into first. But when driving these engines have enough torque to mostly use 2nd and 3rd all the time when you do not have to stop.

I would 100% keep that 3 speed and three on the tree. They are becoming rarer and they are so cool to drive. Took me some work to go from 3 on the floor back to three on the tree.
 
How is the 3 speed when off-roading? I understand it isn't as low as the 4 speed, but in 4 low-range would it be comparible? Trying to convince myself I can live with a 3 speed as my secondary FJ which will be used for actual trail driving.
 
I have a 1970 3 speed with 3 on the tree. I guess it depends on what you want to do with it. I have mixed emotions. It is cool, until the novelty wears off and you realize its a pain with the non-syncro first gear and the awkward column shifting. Also with all those linkages I just feel like there is more to break/bind or generally get sloppy. Im going to drive it for a while and see how I feel about it, but there is a reason they sold so many 3 speed floor shifter conversions.

The vac transfer case I do not like. I like to feel it engage, but Im not going to cut a hole in the floor unless Im doing one for the shifter at the same time.

If youre going to do a lot of off roading, you may want to consider an SM420/465. It has a granny first and people rave about it in the best mods thread.
 
In high school back in the early 80's I had a 1970 with three on the tree and I took that off roading all the time and it did great. It has its limitations, like going up a steep hill in 2nd, down shifting to 1st is not going to happen if you slow down to much. But I loved it and never had a problem, just learned stop at bottom of steep hill and put in first, or low gears and use 2nd and 3rd. You would be better off selling that one and buying a newer one with 4 on the floor and disc brakes if you are going to really hard core wheel that one.
 
No plans to hardcore wheel. I just like to get on tight two-track roads and explore areas most cars can't get to.
 
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