2nd long rear broken

[pismojim]

Yes, I stop by PP from time to time.

That's partly why I asked about specific information. No offense, but I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.

It's often hard to sort out useful accurate quality info from hearsay rumor or just bad info. Not aimed at anyone here but I'm sure you know what I mean.

There is some good info in this thread, thanks Sputnik, (and I suspect the guys at PP will read it - eventually).

Here's my take....

1. Lot's of satisfied customers running some pretty hard core set-ups.
2. Some extremely hard core customers, manage to break about everything they get their hands on. Yet, they are still impressed by the PP axles.
3. Finally, there is some guy in PANAMA wheeling very hard core, with a rare (around here anyway) BUILT, modified and especially powerful torque turbo diesel cruiser with big tires and tire chains who breaks axles. And, he's worried about a "Warranty".

Please don't take offense at the last item. Picture me smiling, patting you on the back and handing you a beer while I'm saying it.

I can't imagine a better way to void a warranty, provided there is one. Same goes for the above stories of breaking axles with 39.5s and big engine/gear reduction and massive torque. I mean can a manufacturer really warranty products for these applications? I doubt it. And I actually hope they don't. What would they do but pass that cost to everyone else?

From there website the PP axles claim to be:
-4340 Forged Chromoly Axles
-Designed to last a lifetime
-Tapered design for an extreme mount of torsional and bending strength
-Splines are cold rolled for (not cut) for extra strength
-Axles are given a smooth finish to eliminate possible stress risers
-Currently the only aftermarket performance axles available
-Unbreakable by anyone, under any circumstance, forever...

OK I added the last one.

Seriously, IMHO they are a great product and every bit of what they claim.

Sorry I honestly don't see much in this thread that merits too much attention. But I will bring it up next time I'm there.



P.S. trivia... I loaned them my spare FJ60 long side axle to use as a pattern, telling them lots of wagon guys (besides me) would buy them.

 

[Kynot62]

Anything is breakable. The fundamental difference being ignored here is that the weight of a vehicle is not longer carried by the axle itself with a FF. The axle can actually be smaller since it only provides the means to make the wheel go around. The weight of the vehicle is now supported by the housing with two bearings on a spindle, just like the front. All in all, the FF is going to be stronger. Try and find a large truck, semi or pick up with a semi float.
This doesn't mean you can't have a very strong semi float, a friend runs a 1000 hp Dodge dart through a semi float but the easiest way to make the rear end on a 60 series stronger is to swap in a factory FF. All the parts bolt right in.
Remember though, the wrong combination of tall tires, big powerplants, a heavy right foot etc can break ANY axle set up. A slight change in the way you wheel just might be the difference, For example instead of trying to yank your buddies FJ 80 out, buy a winch and pull him out. That winch might also get you out someday as well. And winch cables are far cheaper to replace.
Best of Luck

 

[Tapage]

Thanks guys for all comments .. ( thanks Jim .. )

I run a 12000 winch in front .. and actually was totally my fault brake my axle .. just coz I can pull it with winch, or with help from a buddy of simple take it more easy ..

No clue about it ..

I was wondering about the warranty ... and understand it's complicated run a warranty with so many variables to considere ..

Just think that 450 bucks here in Panamá have not the same value as they probably have in USA .. and are not cheap to me ..

 

[pismojim]

...The axle can actually be smaller since it only provides the means to make the wheel go around. The weight of the vehicle is now supported by the housing with two bearings on a spindle, just like the front. All in all, the FF is going to be stronger.

You have the right idea but I don't agree with your conclusion.

There are plenty of good reasons to get FFs but I don't think being stronger is one of them.

It is a huge advantage to be able to break an axle and not have your wheel fall off. This is a very helpless feeling and I've seen it happen more than once. Sometimes even carrying a spare axle is not enough to get a rig mobile. (ie; C-clip problem)

You're correct the FF is great for carrying more load. But the load on the semi floaters has never been a problem from my observations. The thicker section at the bearing surface (or the bearings) is not common failure point. Further I'm not convinced that carrying the load at this point contributes to higher stresses causing the axle to break under torque, something that usually happens at the necked down section where the splines go into the diff.

[slight sarcasm here..] The FF may be harder to break because the studs and/or dowel pins on the drive plate or hub loosen and break first, before the axle is over stressed. Most FF guys are modifying for larger studs or extra pins.

One thing the FF may have going for them is the longer uniform diameter helps spreads the torque over a longer portion of the axle. Note the Poly semi floater design also have this benefit. But a chain is only as strong as its weakest link which is why both seem to fail (or twist) at the diff splines. This is based on my limited experience and observations.

Sadly, the biggest PITA always seems to be getting the often twisted broken piece of axle out of the diff spider which is common to both designs.

From an applied torque point of view, I say the semi floater design is every bit as strong as the FF.

 

[pismojim]

Just think that 450 bucks here in Panamá have not the same value as they probably have in USA .. and are not cheap to me ..

I fully understand, I tend to prefer the whenever possible. Function over form.

Don't forget, most of us are very envious of your well built and well used collection of Non-USA cruisers.

 

[Tapage]

I fully understand, I tend to prefer the whenever possible. Function over form.

Don't forget, most of us are very envious of your well built and well used collection of Non-USA cruisers.

thanks again Jim .. wheen in a 3rd world country have a few benefits .. but getting qualtily parts are not one of them .. one day I will take my Tencha to USA to the GSMT .. my dreams are on Tellico.

Back to the thread .. in my books the FF are not as strong as they will talking about the same axle FF and SF ... for example in our Cruisers ..

Good friend used to have a FF in the rear of he's 40

And he sheared couple of times the bolts on the flange of the FF ..

with a turbo diesel and a V8 ..

IMOP the key it's if you didn't broke your axle, you will broke your R&P or something else .. in the case of FF if you broke the studs .. you can keep rolling ( me to .. but we knnow it's far better with a FF )

Again .. if I need to swap in a FF .. it will be better .. 80 series at least .. or more if it's the case.

Actually I feel ( one of the points that stops me to found and buy a 14B ) that 37" it's a nice wheel tire size .. I love driving my cruiser to everywhere . never tow she, and 37" alow me to drive to the camping place as same as a hard core mud trip ..

And keep the 12" of clearance ..

Actually would like to see in the PP site something like ..

You will broke your R&P first than our axles ..

 

[Sputnik40]

Yes, I stop by PP from time to time.

Here's my take....

1. Lot's of satisfied customers running some pretty hard core set-ups.
2. Some extremely hard core customers, manage to break about everything they get their hands on. Yet, they are still impressed by the PP axles.
3. Finally, there is some guy in PANAMA wheeling very hard core, with a rare (around here anyway) BUILT, modified and especially powerful torque turbo diesel cruiser with big tires and tire chains who breaks axles. And, he's worried about a "Warranty".

From there website the PP axles claim to be:
-4340 Forged Chromoly Axles
-Designed to last a lifetime
-Tapered design for an extreme mount of torsional and bending strength
-Splines are cold rolled for (not cut) for extra strength
-Axles are given a smooth finish to eliminate possible stress risers
-Currently the only aftermarket performance axles available
-Unbreakable by anyone, under any circumstance, forever...

OK I added the last one.

Seriously, IMHO they are a great product and every bit of what they claim.

True enough - and most likely the reason I ponied up for the 3rd axle knowing that it's better than a stocker.

Also - some other good comments about how much better a 4-link is than a SOA with a anti-wrap bar.

 

[Mace]

go find a LC D60..

Upgrade it to 35 spline..

 

[Tapage]

go find a LC D60..

Upgrade it to 35 spline..

how much weight from a D60 compared to a 14B and to a rear SF cruiser axle .. ?

The weight it's a issue here or wherever are you wheeling deep and sticky mud ..

On sat I was on yunkyards .. asking for 80 series rear FF ( pretty expensive ) and foudn from a friend a 14B with 4.56 and detroit locker .. I'm calculating 400 bucks on bearings overal .. it's fine ..

That bitch it huge !!!!

other friend have one with 36 wrangler old style MT ( from old hummer ) tires and manage to have about 10.5" of ground clearance .. vs my 12" in my cruiser axle ..

 

[mookie]

does that LC dana 60 have a centered diff or offset? awesome pics btw

 

[Tapage]

does that LC dana 60 have a centered diff or offset? awesome pics btw

offset .. 35 splines but SF .. and loose my rear disc are not part of the game unless I got a FF

 

[smtyblt]

You simply just dont need a D60 or a 14bolt. Not to mention the ground clearance you loose.
Going 3/4 or 1 ton axles is cool but in the end you end up spending more money and way more time, and you only get a mildly strong axle if at all compared to the PP axled FJ60 rear.

 

[TURNMEOVER]

You simply just dont need a D60 or a 14bolt. Not to mention the ground clearance you loose.
Going 3/4 or 1 ton axles is cool but in the end you end up spending more money and way more time, and you only get a mildly strong axle if at all compared to the PP axled FJ60 rear.

 

[smtyblt]

not sure why your confused or sarcastic

maybe an explanation is due

 

[Mace]

You simply just dont need a D60 or a 14bolt. Not to mention the ground clearance you loose.
Going 3/4 or 1 ton axles is cool but in the end you end up spending more money and way more time, and you only get a mildly strong axle if at all compared to the PP axled FJ60 rear.

Mildly???

 

[smtyblt]

Mildly???

It may be ignorance but I would like to see the numbers. A stock 35 spline axle and how much it would take to break it. Against a Poly Performance rear shaft and what it takes to break it.

I bet the numbers are real close.

And all I am saying is the cost to the consumer is less putting in the pp axles vers. the cost to put in the ton stuff.

 

[mookie]

how hard is it to find one of those LC D60's down there? and how much do they go for? and can you send me one lol? SF 35 spline is going to be strong as hell, and your only going to lose about a inch of diff clearance with a D60. converting to disk brakes shouldn't be too bad, if you can find or make brackets you might even be able to reuse the calipers and rotors that you have now on your LC axle.

 

[Mace]

It may be ignorance but I would like to see the numbers. A stock 35 spline axle and how much it would take to break it. Against a Poly Performance rear shaft and what it takes to break it.

I bet the numbers are real close.

And all I am saying is the cost to the consumer is less putting in the pp axles vers. the cost to put in the ton stuff.

Bobby did some of his testing on stock D60 front stuff (upgraded to 35 spline but not Chromo) compared to his 300M birfs..

The birfs were approximately equal to the D60 counterparts..
Before any real strength upgrades have been done to the 60.

That is axle shaft strength alone. The increase in housing strength is an additional factor and is very important IMHO.

A d60 is significantly stronger and has greater upgrade possibilities than a cruiser axle.

If LC's came with D60's is the cost gonna be that much more?

 

[Tapage]

how hard is it to find one of those LC D60's down there? and how much do they go for? and can you send me one lol? SF 35 spline is going to be strong as hell, and your only going to lose about a inch of diff clearance with a D60. converting to disk brakes shouldn't be too bad, if you can find or make brackets you might even be able to reuse the calipers and rotors that you have now on your LC axle.

Not really that hard thought .. Toyota rears are much more desirable down here .. and I need to admin, I would prefeer a rear 80 FF than a rear D60 SF ..

I have a buddy that had one of those D60 SF in his place .. I would ask how much for it ..

 

[mookie]

the 80 series just seems like a lateral move strengthwise (i've looked into the same thing extensively and have decided it isn't worth the work and $ over my 60 series rear end just to have a full floater)....with the dana 60 you also get a stronger R&P

oh, and why did toyota use dana 60's, was it because of the diesel engines or ?