2F vs 3B on BJ60 Help!

[hayzin]

Hey guys,

I own a 1987 BJ60 since 2009.
It has a 3B engine with a H41, 4 speed tranny, and a set of 33x12.5x15 tires.
The 3B has been overhauled once last year in Feb.
Now I've been reading up on this website about gas vs diesel. I think in the end it just comes down to what your requirement is.
I have been using my BJ60 as a daily runner and offroader since I got it.
I've been trying to decide what to do in terms of the engine swap.
True the 3B is a way more economical engine than a 2F. But a 3B with H41 tranny, after 3 years of driving it, has tired me. Its slow on its feet and loud as hell (not in a good way). Morover, the 3B has no kick to it. However when it comes to offroading, the 3B is as reliable as it gets.

So here are my options:

1. Keep the 3B, install a H55 tranny and turbo setup.
2. Swap 3B with a 2F and run it on H41.

The miles per gallon is not a concern for me. I just want something that will go faster than 110km/hr without screaming rpm levels!

The reason to switch to gas is simple....its less noisier, fewer vibrations, requires less frequent oil changes and accelerates better.

The 2F is my only option right now owing to financial constraints and my wife is sick of me spending money on my beloved BJ60.
I have the option to swap my 3B with a 2F without any money changing hands. Also, the price of diesel is higher than the price of gas/petrol.

So to some this all up I need the experts here to tell me if going ahead with this swap is the right thing to do.
Again keeping in mind that fuel economy is not a big deal, is the 2F a better engine than a 3B?

 

[GeologistFelix]

I'm not an expert, but here's one thing to consider:

The 3B and 2F/2H/12H-T have different input shaft lengths for their transmissions. To make your H41 work with a 2F, you'd have to disassemble it almost entirely and machine the shaft down to the right length (it's possible that you could swap one from a 6-cylinder H42 or H55, but maybe not?).

 

[Wyoming]

Hey guys,

I own a 1987 BJ60 since 2009.
It has a 3B engine with a H41, 4 speed tranny, and a set of 33x12.5x15 tires.
The 3B has been overhauled once last year in Feb.
Now I've been reading up on this website about gas vs diesel. I think in the end it just comes down to what your requirement is.
I have been using my BJ60 as a daily runner and offroader since I got it.
I've been trying to decide what to do in terms of the engine swap.
True the 3B is a way more economical engine than a 2F. But a 3B with H41 tranny, after 3 years of driving it, has tired me. Its slow on its feet and loud as **** (not in a good way). Morover, the 3B has no kick to it. However when it comes to offroading, the 3B is as reliable as it gets.

So here are my options:

1. Keep the 3B, install a H55 tranny and turbo setup.
2. Swap 3B with a 2F and run it on H41.

The miles per gallon is not a concern for me. I just want something that will go faster than 110km/hr without screaming rpm levels!

The reason to switch to gas is simple....its less noisier, fewer vibrations, requires less frequent oil changes and accelerates better.

The 2F is my only option right now owing to financial constraints and my wife is sick of me spending money on my beloved BJ60.
I have the option to swap my 3B with a 2F without any money changing hands. Also, the price of diesel is higher than the price of gas/petrol.

So to some this all up I need the experts here to tell me if going ahead with this swap is the right thing to do.
Again keeping in mind that fuel economy is not a big deal, is the 2F a better engine than a 3B?

I don't think you can help the noise and vibration issues, from what people are telling me (I'm putting in a Cummins 4bt soon), but a turbo should help with your giddy-up. Also, look into other things like better injectors. Diesel engines are sooooo cool because of how much power you can get out of them. The absolute easiest power assist is propane injection. If your engine was just overhauled, you have an excellent base to work from. Sure, you can't drop a paycheck into it right now, but if you keep adding a little at a time, you will end up with a heck of a power plant that will last a heck of a long time.

There are a ton of ways to cut costs. Doing your own work is number one. Going slow and waiting for the bargains is another. Used parts that you rebuild yourself...

Do not, under any circumstances, trade your 3b straight up for a 2f. If you look you can probably find a 2f for FREE somewhere. I just sent a perfectly good 2f to the junkyard because I couldn't give it away. If that 3b is freshly rebuilt with low mileage, you should get good money for it...If that's the way you choose to go.

As to diesel prices, I'm expecting them to go down. We are already seeing it come back down to gas prices in this area. Everything I'm hearing is that the national trucking fleet is going to convert to natural gas or a diesel/natural gas combo. This means the demand for diesel will go down and so will the prices. Stick with diesel.

 

[gregnash]

I don't think you can help the noise and vibration issues, from what people are telling me (I'm putting in a Cummins 4bt soon), but a turbo should help with your giddy-up. Also, look into other things like better injectors. Diesel engines are sooooo cool because of how much power you can get out of them. The absolute easiest power assist is propane injection. If your engine was just overhauled, you have an excellent base to work from. Sure, you can't drop a paycheck into it right now, but if you keep adding a little at a time, you will end up with a heck of a power plant that will last a heck of a long time.

There are a ton of ways to cut costs. Doing your own work is number one. Going slow and waiting for the bargains is another. Used parts that you rebuild yourself...

Do not, under any circumstances, trade your 3b straight up for a 2f. If you look you can probably find a 2f for FREE somewhere. I just sent a perfectly good 2f to the junkyard because I couldn't give it away. If that 3b is freshly rebuilt with low mileage, you should get good money for it...If that's the way you choose to go.

As to diesel prices, I'm expecting them to go down. We are already seeing it come back down to gas prices in this area. Everything I'm hearing is that the national trucking fleet is going to convert to natural gas or a diesel/natural gas combo. This means the demand for diesel will go down and so will the prices. Stick with diesel.

Could not agree more. As someone who is lusting after a Diesel 60 there is much that can be done to add "pep" to your drive. The simplest thing would be to give yourself a little rubber overdrive if you haven't already. From there go with the swap to the H55F. From there you can start doing some small work to the engine to increase power and eventually you can end up with the turbo kit.

I know that it seems like the 2F will be better but really the overall cost of Petrol (GAS) will fluctuate much more than the cost of diesel. The money you would spend in swapping other parts to make what you have work with the 2F would end up negating the cost of keeping the 3B for a while and saving for some bigger power upgrades (ESPECIALLY if you just rebuilt it).

Pop on over to the diesel forums and talk with those guys as they will give you some good pointers on where/how to get some extra power out of that powerplant. If this is your DD and you don't really do anything hardcore in it that would require more top-end then maybe buy something else to use as your DD with more pep when you want.

Ultimately, it is what you will be happy with. I can tell you that there are many of us on here that would give our right nut to have a 3B machine that was rebuilt recently for cheap.

 

[ClemsonCruiser]

I don't know if I have ever seen a thread for some one wanting to swap a 3B for a 2F this seems almost counter intuitive to the normal thought process for us gasser guys.... we all lust for the diesel

I have owned many 2F's and now have my first 3B and I don't plan of ever going back to gassers... I would personally go with option 1, it to me would be a far superior drivetrain. A turbo will really wake the 3B up!

Also I assume you are in Canada, those 3B's are worth a pretty penny down here in the states. If you decide to go with the 2F sell your 3B to someone state side and you will have plenty of money for a good 2f and change to spare

 

[lovetoski]

Regarding noise...there are a number of ways to reduce noise. Do a search for "noise abatement" or similar.

Regarding the freeway rpms...the only way to reduce them is to go to an overdrive tranny like the H55. With the H41, you'll have the same freeway rpm's on the 2F as you do on the 3B.

Regarding power, turbo the 3B will improve power, and increase your fuel economy also.

If the 2F is free, and fuel cost is of no consequence, then it will give you more power in stock form, and so I can see how this might be appealing.

 

[1911]

With the H41, you'll have the same freeway rpm's on the 2F as you do on the 3B.

With the granny-low 1st gear on the H41, you can run 33" tires for a rubber overdrive and still start out fine with the stock 3.7 diffs. That's exactly what I did on my 40 and it's a nice combination.

 

[slowandsteady BJ]

Post up that 3b for a trade for 2F...... your PM box will fill in no time!

My big, tall heavy Sixty will happily cruise along at 90kph (geared very close to stock) with a well tuned, healthy intercooled 3b- turbo.

Keep your stock gears, put some skinny 33's, add a turbo and a 5 speed and 110kph is possible all day long.

To cut down on noise, get some "closed cell foam" underlay from Home Depot and lay it under your carpet. Aso tune the "B".... check inj. timing and rebuild the injectors. You'll be happy with the results.

 

[Hulsty]

I woudlnt even consider wasting money on fitting a 2F, for the $$$ and results it makes no sense. Fit a H55F and a turbo, I have a 13BT, H55F, 4.11 diffs and 35'' tyres and can easily cruiser at 120km/h woth power to pass.

 

[iggi]

Gears and a turbo is all you need my friend.

I have an '85 BJ60 with an H55 and stock gears. Before turbo, driving on the highway was a real exercise in patience.

Now with the turbo and 33 inch tires I can easily cruise at 110KPH. (I probably do 120 most of the time even though my economy suffers greatly)

Hills are so much easier. Before the turbo I'd have to build maximum speed to hit the top of the next hill without dropping too much below the speed limit.

Now, I only think about that on the biggest hills.

It's still not a power horse but it's now tolerable on the highway.

 

[hayzin]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.
Sounds like majority is for keeping the 3B and going for a H55F with turbo. The 2F really attracted me only for the reason of having my BJ60 not be so sluggish on the road and especially when it comes to long distance driving. The terrains I usually have to deal with are either highway roads or steep mountain climbs. Though at

Would I need to replace the stock pistons with bigger ones to accommodate the turbo?
Since the engine has been overhauled once last year, to put it under stress with turbo might not be right.
Also I'm currently running low speed diffs....so to compliment the 3B, tires, along with a H55F tranny + turbo, would that be the right kind of setup or will there be some major alterations involved.
Moreover, what kind of costs am I looking at?
The H55F is costing me around US$265 in my area.
What turbo is compatible with 3B?

 

[hayzin]

My BJ60 in action

A short video for all to enjoy:

Hayzin's monster BJ60 - YouTube

 

[snowboardonsnow]

Hop over to the diesel section and run a search, lots of 3b fitting with turbos all the info you will need. As for gearing and such, search for grim gearing calculator in google and use that to set up gears. I may have missed it but are you running 4.10 or 3.7s? 3.7s with 33"s should be good on the freeway. I currently run 36" on 3.7s and I love it on the freeway rpms are low and my 3b is so much happier. I would leave it that way if I had a h41 but the h42 hates first gear. I will be getting 4:1s with 1.08 ud so basically 36 with 4.10s and in still should be able to do 70mph without screaming the engine.