2F carb or ignition problems? Advice on where to start looking? (1 Viewer)

Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
hi everyone. Having a slight issue with my 2F and really would appreciate some advice on where to start looking from some of the more experienced members on here.
I have started to drive my 45 daily again after taking a couple of years to restore it. Before i started on the build the ute was used by me for 3 years then when my father rolled his GQ patrol it got put to work hauling a diesel tank and his tools for his daily maintenance on his truck and drott. He worked in the ranges so it was doing 200 klms a day in quite steep country for 8 months. In all that time i never had any issues with it nor did he. we both used to get a smile on our face as we buried the throttle into it to hold 90kmh up a hill and it would start to rumble out a beautiful note as we started to climb the hills. It used to cruise nicely on 100kph on the freeway aswell.
After starting to drive it daily again i noticed the secondary wasnt working anymore. I did a carburettor rebuild about 9 months ago but didnt have the secondary diaphram in the kit so i didnt change it at the time. i got a new diaphram and installed it and took it for a test, I thought i'd found the problem. I got into top gear slowed down to 40kph and held the throttle wide open and initial response was great and as the revs started to climb i got a really good increase in power with no flat spots or hesitation. I think ive got more power and throttle response than i ever have but as i started to approach 100kph i noticed it wasnt running as well and by the time id gotten just over 100kph it was evident that not all is well and there is black smoke out the tailpipe when this happens.
It starts great whether its cold or hot. It runs really nicely on take off i can accelerate through the gears and take it up to 70kph in third with no issues. It feels like after i hit 95 in top gear its not running as smoothly as it is at 90.
Its Australian spec 1979 model with no emissions and i have all vacuum lines plugged up except the vac advance on the distributor. It has a new set of plugs and wires aswell as rotor button and cap. New coil with resistor installed at same time as new points. Last time i checked vacuum (about a month ago) it was nice and steady at 21''.My vacuum advance moves freely when i apply vacuum to the diaphram. Spark plugs look good. Air filter is new. Fuel pump is rebuilt. When i get some free time next weekend im going to check valve lash, check points gap, put the timing light on it and flush the fuel system and put a new filter on. Fuel runs freely through the one on it at the moment but ill put a new one on.
My fuel level is about 3mm below the dot in the middle of the sightglass?? Could that cause issues higher in the revs in top gear? Its only ever a short period i get to those revs in third gear were it is fine but in fourth at 100 its constantly at those revs? ive got 31'' tyres and 4.11:1 diff ratios so i think its around 3000 rpm that i have the issue in top gear.
I"d like to be confident there isnt anything ive overlooked in the ignition system or fuel system up to the carburettor before i go looking in the carb.
thanks in advance to anyone that shares some advice.
 

65swb45

Elder Statesman
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
29,251
Location
818-953-9230
Do a compression test. My hunch is you are low.

The fact that you can run it out in 3rd precludes an ignition problem.

Now that your secondary is working, the combined fuel of the power valve (low vacuum) and the secondary is causing your black smoke.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Thanks for chiming in mark ive read quite a few forums that youve offered advice on. The MUD community is lucky to have seasoned veterans that take the time out to read about our issues and have a think about them and offer sound advice.
i did a compression test thisevening before it got too dark
#1 DRY 130psi WET 145psi
#2 DRY 130psi WET 140psi
#3 DRY 130psi WET 130psi
#4 DRY 130psi WET 130psi
#5 DRY 135psi WET 140psi
#6 DRY 130psi WET 140psi
I redid 3 and 4 a couple of times waiting about 5 mins between each test but they stayed at 130.
After re-reading your reply i'll hook up a vacuum gauge for the trip to work in the morning and keep a good eye on it in all driving conditions.
i'm quite positive youve already told me what im going to see though.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Better check the valve lash I’m thinking? I replaced the valve stem seals and haven’t checked the clearances since I’ve started to drive it daily.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Checked valves after work today and everything was fine till I checked the dipstick and the oil level was quite low. I’ve burnt around a litre in 75klms.
No smoke under load except the black smoke if I give it full throttle after 85kph but I’ve got some white smoke if I rev it in the driveway and gets a bit blue if I hold it up around 2k and give it a lil rev up higher.
Could cylinder 3 and 4 already be wet and my dry reading of 130psi false?
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
After putting a few more klms on it and finding some contaminated fuel. Still not sure if it was water or something else. It started running properly. I could hold 100kph on the highway and up some good hills but my blue smoke on idle started to get worse. With the oil consumption I’d had for the last two weeks I decided to have a better look so off came the head and sump.
I found a broken compression ring on number 2. Only broken ring I found.
Number 6 looks like the gudgeon pin has grabbed the piston and been close to damaging the cylinder badly.
The cylinders look glazed more than anything.
I’m not too sure yet how to go about this.
Should I check the cylinders for roundness and if they check out ok re-hone and fit a new set of pistons and rings. I’m assuming the gudgeon pins come with the pistons sized correctly.
The crankshaft looks good. Should I put new bearings on the rods?
My oil pressure has always been stable and close to the mark.
I did the rear main and timing case and front main seal when I had the motor out previously to paint it.

EB42B310-9C61-45F6-93E8-9DDC3534125E.jpeg
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Yes they all look like that. That one I’d actually moved around with my fingers for a while, the rest are quite firm in their grooves. I could slide number 2 back into the cylinder with ease without the compression rings on.
That pic is of number 6 with the scuffing on the skirt. I’m a bit curious why number 6 is like that and none of the others. Blocked oil passage to the gudgeon pin? It was stiff to move in the piston but seems quite free now. I haven’t removed that pin yet.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Found something interesting on the oil rings in the FSM. From what I’m reading the oil rings may have been installed incorrectly. None of mine are anywhere near close to lining up. The two rings outside of the expander coil are offset between 90 to 180 degrees.

3B12480D-0D25-4510-89EA-EAB295E7ABD2.png
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Ended up doing an inframe rebuild of sorts. Cleaned the head in a bit of a hot bath and cleaned and cleaned and cleaned the block out so I could have a friend look over everything to make sure I hadn’t missed anything obvious before he had a measure of things before I ordered any parts. Was quite funny I think he asked me what I cleaned the head and block with half a dozen times. Some water based degreaser I had for cad plating came in handy.
In the end I was quite lucky and got away with putting a new set of std sized pistons and rings back in with a new set of rod bearings. Removing the lifters took some time and the rocker gear had a tarnish that I couldn’t remove without disassembling it all.
Overall it went back together quite well. I took my time and used a lot less sealant on the oil pan than last time after reading a bit more on here.
Best tool I used during the job would have to be the digital snap on torque wrench I borrowed. It was nice to use and I could do things in stages without changing the setting.
I’ve put 220 kilometres on it since I got it back together and went through the initial start up and timing setting and fast idle. Everything seems to be going quite well. It’s quieter under the bonnet than it’s ever been. Seems to get up to operating temp in half the time but runs slightly cooler on the highway and around town.
There has been zero smoke and oil consumption so far. I hope it stays that way too.

I’ve got mineral oil in it at the moment but will switch to delo 400 when I do an oil change in the hj47.
Should I use mineral oil for the first couple of thousand kms or go back to the delo as soon as possible.
I’ts not a proper rebuild/recondition so I’m just running the rings in or should I treat it like a proper rebuild and wait a while till I put delo in it.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Thanks for the replies and advice to have a look deeper into it than the carb and ignition systems. I quite possibly would have done a bit more damage and would have had machining and removal of the engine to deal with not to mention the extra cost involved.
The only thing I haven’t been through yet on this whole project is the distributors mechanical advance.
I don’t have any issues but I would like to get in there and clean it and re-lube anything in there that might need it. I haven’t seen much on it but haven’t done a great deal of searching yet. Any tips or thoughts on this?
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
14,178
Location
EAST COAST
Thanks for the replies and advice to have a look deeper into it than the carb and ignition systems. I quite possibly would have done a bit more damage and would have had machining and removal of the engine to deal with not to mention the extra cost involved.
The only thing I haven’t been through yet on this whole project is the distributors mechanical advance.
I don’t have any issues but I would like to get in there and clean it and re-lube anything in there that might need it. I haven’t seen much on it but haven’t done a great deal of searching yet. Any tips or thoughts on this?


Do Your AU carbs have a Fuel Cut Solenoid on them ?

up on the Air Horn , with either a single or two wires going to it ?

if so i would remove it and see if it has a little black O-ring still on tip or if it clicks when u apply bench test power to it per the FSM engine

some of your symptoms have similarities in some cases to a bad one or one where the o-ring has failed and either clogged it or is letting fuel by when it's Not supposed to ..............

from my experience ,

not your internal engine issues related to be clear .......


just a topic not to over look .......

good luck Mate !
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Yes it has a single wire solenoid. I have unplugged it and it stalls the motor very quickly. I don’t recall looking for an o-ring on the solenoid when I had it removed during my carb rebuild I just assumed it was functioning well and didn’t pay too much attention to it.
I’ll be having a look at that when I check my oil in the morning.
Thanks for letting me know about that one.
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
14,178
Location
EAST COAST
Yes it has a single wire solenoid. I have unplugged it and it stalls the motor very quickly. I don’t recall looking for an o-ring on the solenoid when I had it removed during my carb rebuild I just assumed it was functioning well and didn’t pay too much attention to it.
I’ll be having a look at that when I check my oil in the morning.
Thanks for letting me know about that one.


see , in a older 2F / 3F carb when u Remove the Solenoid for any reason , it usually Tears and shreds small microscopic black o-ring

when and id u inslall a new one apply a dab of Silocoln or house hold kiyched Olive Oil to this O-ribe , so it glides right in and will not get hung up and terat too , ona install .......

sounds odd , but i have encountered this issue many times , i keep a 10 pack of tem and the crush washer seals on hand in the Shop supplies at all times ...............

that tine bastard is mission Critical Mate ........


see my example photos below of my 2 wire Solenoids i offer and see the tip of it ..............

yea its that tiny !



1584096566271.png


1584096646409.png



hope u get it all straight ............ :)




,
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Just having a look in my carb rebuild kit at left over parts and I have 3 small o-rings. I’ll have a look at the solenoid after the weekend I think in case I don’t have the right o-ring and like you say I could make it worse worse when I remove it if it’s still on there. I’m watching my spark plugs closely checking them every 50 kms. Here’s a pic of them at 200 kms.

image.jpg


0963F72B-D7BC-4E76-B99A-A246BA1F763A.jpeg


848005BC-3FD2-420D-938F-761DF34AB565.jpeg
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
14,178
Location
EAST COAST
what brand plugs u using ?



factory TOYOTA NipponDenso Resister ones the micro fiche calls for

exactly ?

i cant make out the number code on the hex ?
 

ToyotaMatt

Factory Focus-Point Mind-Set Approach
Supporting Vendor
GOLD Star
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
14,178
Location
EAST COAST
I have never seen any carb kit oem toyota or japan aftermarket like KEYSTER come with the solenoid o ring before ?

- most dont come with the solenoid crush ring gasket either , only a oem toyota one does i have seen



here is both parts u need to seal up your solenoid tight

most folks do not put the crush washer that will cause a small vacuum leak of fuel to leak out in some extreme cases

this o-ring is very tiny maybe only 2-3mm in dia ........


DSCN0817.JPG
DSCN0818.JPG
DSCN0819.JPG
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
Messages
41
Location
australia
Plugs are ngk BPR5E. Wasn’t much of a selection at the parts store. He looked in the book quickly and gave me them
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom