2F Block Worthiness (1 Viewer)

[sark]

Cross-posting from my thread for feedback. As someone who has never torn an engine down like this, I’m looking for advice on how to proceed. If there’s no flags raised by the condition of the block, I’ll continue to clean and put it back together.

My 60 sat for years abandoned and had obvious amounts of water in the oil, even after changing it out a couple times. Ran ok, but wouldn’t hold an idle. Had some sort of vacuum leak and gasket leak. My plan so far has been to tear the engine down to clean everything and if it looked good enough, to put it back together with new gaskets. Really like some feedback on this 2F block as to how bad it looks compared to other projects, and how to proceed with cleaning it. I can’t find any signs of cracking or catastrophic damage other than the gasket/water in the oil issues. Any feedback appreciated.

“First idea was the intake manifold gasket and the head gasket. I got the 2F stripped down to here as of today. I'd like some opinions on how to proceed. The block looks alright, minus the debris. I wanted to get the top end off to check to see if the block was cracked, but I don't see anything majorly wrong it. Ideally, I'd like to clean everything up and put it back together and drive it. Whether or not this 2F is worth putting back together is where I'm at. If I was all alone in this, I would proceed and put it back together with the gasket set I already have.

Cylinders 1-2

Cylinders 3-4

Cylinders 5-6

Any suggestions? What should I use to clean this thing up? I'm guessing soap and water is not the correct method... Anyone have a detailed 2F rebuild thread to point me towards? I've got the manual but it's not the best on the details for someone who has never done anything like this before.”

 

[Malleus]

@sark First of all, there are no photos in your post.

There is one thing the FSM won't help you with: cleaning. It was written assuming the same conditions as in the factory, which is spotless.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with soap and water. What you're trying to doing is release the grease from the steel casting, which isn't easy, since cast anything is a sponge.

Good degreasers have a lot of lye in them, usually potassium hydroxide, but other hyroxides are also used (same thing you use to clean the carbon from your oven). They won't harm iron, but they eat aluminum (eventually), so if you use them on the head or intake, watch the time they spend in solution. And rinse thoroughly with clean cold water.

My absolute favorite degreaser is Carbon Off; it's made for the food service industry and it eats carbon like nobody's business. It's safe on all metals. But not paint.

For general cleaning, 5 gallons of Zep purple concentrate will last you for a long time, unless you have a fleet, like me. Again, have lots of clean, cold water handy for rinsing. FWIW, if you clean over your driveway with Zep, it'll clean the concrete, too.

After cleaning, and I mean right after, spray or brush every metal surface with rust preventative, WD40, PB Blaster, used motor oil, anything just to keep the air off of it. A light coat is all that's needed; you're just trying to prevent the water in the air form contacting the metal and rusting it.

As far as whether your block is in good shape, since there aren't any photos, the only advice I can offer is to beg, borrow or steal a good set of snap gauges and an 8-inch dial caliper, then measure the bores and using a precision straightedge (you can get a good one for not much money from woodworking suppliers, or a machine shop, if there's one near you) measure the deck flatness (top surface of the block). That'll tell you whether you can save it or not, and how much work needs to be done. FYSA, if it has to be machined, the machine shop will do all this again, but that's OK, they have to to setup their machines. You have to do it, so you know whether or to send it to them.

Good for you for tackling this, and good luck!

 

[sark]

@sark First of all, there are no photos in your post.

There is one thing the FSM won't help you with: cleaning. It was written assuming the same conditions as in the factory, which is spotless.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with soap and water. What you're trying to doing is release the grease from the steel casting, which isn't easy, since cast anything is a sponge.

Good degreasers have a lot of lye in them, usually potassium hydroxide, but other hyroxides are also used (same thing you use to clean the carbon from your oven). They won't harm iron, but they eat aluminum (eventually), so if you use them on the head or intake, watch the time they spend in solution. And rinse thoroughly with clean cold water.

My absolute favorite degreaser is Carbon Off; it's made for the food service industry and it eats carbon like nobody's business. It's safe on all metals. But not paint.

For general cleaning, 5 gallons of Zep purple concentrate will last you for a long time, unless you have a fleet, like me. Again, have lots of clean, cold water handy for rinsing. FWIW, if you clean over your driveway with Zep, it'll clean the concrete, too.

After cleaning, and I mean right after, spray or brush every metal surface with rust preventative, WD40, PB Blaster, used motor oil, anything just to keep the air off of it. A light coat is all that's needed; you're just trying to prevent the water in the air form contacting the metal and rusting it.

As far as whether your block is in good shape, since there aren't any photos, the only advice I can offer is to beg, borrow or steal a good set of snap gauges and an 8-inch dial caliper, then measure the bores and using a precision straightedge (you can get a good one for not much money from woodworking suppliers, or a machine shop, if there's one near you) measure the deck flatness (top surface of the block). That'll tell you whether you can save it or not, and how much work needs to be done. FYSA, if it has to be machined, the machine shop will do all this again, but that's OK, they have to to setup their machines. You have to do it, so you know whether or to send it to them.

Good for you for tackling this, and good luck!

Sorry, just re-uploaded them

 

[dbleon]

Take the block to a competent machine shop and have them dip and flux the block and check the deck, and crank. Otherwise you’re shooting in the dark IMO.

 

[OSS]

I wouldn’t tear that thing down to just replace gaskets unless I knew for certain it ran good.

 

[sark]

I wouldn’t tear that thing down to just replace gaskets unless I knew for certain it ran good.

understandable. This is currently a learning experience project for me. I’m hoping a fresh cleaning and gaskets combined with a redo of the emissions systems will allow me to drive it. If not it’s not the end of the world for me. My 73 series is the one I really care for at the moment.

 

[Malleus]

Cross-posting from my thread for feedback. As someone who has never torn an engine down like this, I’m looking for advice on how to proceed. If there’s no flags raised by the condition of the block, I’ll continue to clean and put it back together.

My 60 sat for years abandoned and had obvious amounts of water in the oil, even after changing it out a couple times. Ran ok, but wouldn’t hold an idle. Had some sort of vacuum leak and gasket leak. My plan so far has been to tear the engine down to clean everything and if it looked good enough, to put it back together with new gaskets. Really like some feedback on this 2F block as to how bad it looks compared to other projects, and how to proceed with cleaning it. I can’t find any signs of cracking or catastrophic damage other than the gasket/water in the oil issues. Any feedback appreciated.

“First idea was the intake manifold gasket and the head gasket. I got the 2F stripped down to here as of today. I'd like some opinions on how to proceed. The block looks alright, minus the debris. I wanted to get the top end off to check to see if the block was cracked, but I don't see anything majorly wrong it. Ideally, I'd like to clean everything up and put it back together and drive it. Whether or not this 2F is worth putting back together is where I'm at. If I was all alone in this, I would proceed and put it back together with the gasket set I already have.

View attachment 3436477

Cylinders 1-2
View attachment 3436478


Cylinders 3-4
View attachment 3436479

Cylinders 5-6
View attachment 3436494

View attachment 3436495


Any suggestions? What should I use to clean this thing up? I'm guessing soap and water is not the correct method... Anyone have a detailed 2F rebuild thread to point me towards? I've got the manual but it's not the best on the details for someone who has never done anything like this before.”

Honestly, that engine looks mint to me, however, the devil is in the details. While you have it apart, measure everything you can reach, and write down everything you measure. Check your measurements against the FSM and if it looks OK, it probably is.

There is nothing that a shop can do to measure that you can't do, reliably, in your driveway. The fact that you don't have a CMM or laser interferometer, shouldn't keep you from checking your parts. Most shops don't have expensive, just delivered today, measuring equipment either. Because they don't need it.

If you have any machine work done, make sure the shop has, or has access to, cleaning equipment. I would not pay a shop to work on a dirty engine, or engine parts, and return it that way to me. That's unprofessional, and is indicative of poor quality. Having said that, it always pays to clean, as best you can, anything you take to someone else to have work done on.

Again, loads of good karma to you for tearing into this engine. No effort is ever truly wasted.

 

[sark]

If there are no other opinions to add, then I’ll read through what @Malleus said later in detail and proceed. Just wanted some reassurance from experienced people about whether what I’m working with looks ok so far, or to abort at all costs.

 

[F226continental]

If you can rent or borrow a hot water pressure washer that is the best way to clean it up, stick the nozzle in every single orifice you can see and if you’re not soaking wet when you’re done, you didn’t do it right. unless you’re going to take it apart then sodium hydroxide dipped like was already mentioned.

looks good at first glance though.

 

[sark]

Is there anywhere on the block that I shouldn’t get wet? intake/exhaust ports?

 

[AussieHJCruza]

If you're at this point, is it feasible for you to pull the entire engine and inspect/measure everything?

 

[sark]

If you're at this point, is it feasible for you to pull the entire engine and inspect/measure everything?

It would be the "right" thing to do I understand. I would realistically have to go out and get a crane, engine stand and the listed tools to measure everything. That barrier to entry is discouraging when I don't really want to put that much towards this vehicle right now. It's definitely not a museum piece but I understand the "while I'm this far" sentiment. I think realistically I'll clean it up and see what it looks like clean and probably just slap it back together. This thing is caked in grease like a layer of cake icing, so I have a feeling just douching the vehicle will be half what it needs.

 

[micruz60]

Are you able to take a picture of the engine from the bottom, checking mains and crank for any wear or hot spots?