22RE Rebuild vs. PreBuilt

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jynx

jynx

Turd Herder
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Ok guys, I am at a point where I am going to start researching a new heartbeat for my DD 90 Pickup. The current motor has served me very well but with nearly 300k on the bottom end, worn valve seals, general oil leakage, etc. I really think it is time.

So my general question is from a cost and time stand point what does the brain-trust think about a rebuilt vs. a prebuilt motor. I am pretty handy and my plan would be either:
to find a good short block, have it cleaned and machined, new pistons, rings, water pump, oil pump, timing set, etc probably an engnbldr head and cam, other goodies and then swap it in.

Vs.

Calling Jim at 22rePerformance and ordering one and having it shipped to the door.

Anybody done a rebuild lately got any good cost numbers. I know the 22reperf. Will probably be around 3k by the time I get it to the door, but everyone who has bought from him only have good things to say. I figure a do it myself build will be in it for around 2k with parts so is it worth the savings to build it. I am leaning toward buying just for time and energy, but I am not sold on either just yet.

Thoughts and comments... thanks
 
The decision process for me was greatly influenced by the degree of time and resources available.

If you have the shop space and the time(and inclination) IMO why not do it yourself.

However, at every stage the exists the chance and likely hood, for complications.

Even with purchasing a pre-built long block, your still likely to have some complications, you just reduce the volume.

However, it is one hell of a feeling to be rolling down the road after having put together your very own package, : ).
 
Yeah the inclination part is what gets me, tools and skill I have. I have a 3.0 I am working on now and it has been "in process" for much longer than it should have been. Working 50-60 hrs a week and having a 2 year old make time the biggest limitation for me.
 
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Joe_E said:
Just don't settle on a Jasper.
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Definitely a NO. I really hadn't thought much about buying a rebuild until I ran across a post on ttora about 22reperformance and remembered a thread over on yotatech where snobdds (<--username) had them rebuild him one with all OEM internals. I think I will call them next week and see what they have to say.

I would like to do the rebuild myself, but lately I have so many irons in the fire that I fear it would be very drawn out if I tried it, plus while I have confidence in my ability (this would be my 4th toyota motor) if this is what they do, I feel like they would do a good job. Sounds like I am leaning but I will have to wait and see what a phone call yields.

Thanks.
 
I happen to remember that Beno had picked up a full 1FZ shortblock from Mr. T, so tomorrow I am going to make a call to see if they might have one around in the 22RE flavor and see what that would run me. If this goes well then I will probably forgo the rebuild and just pick up a factory fresh one. I mean the one in there has done me well for nearly 300k, if it is within reason then I say it would be worth the $$.
 
having done this and seeing the cost of both rebuilt or buy....my question to you is....do you plan on keeping this truck long enough to where you will be in this situation again...i.e. will you rebuild this motor again after this time??

Here is why..the mainstream rebuild houses will do a good job, if you pick the right one, and the price is usually pretty good, if you realize what you are getting...

see for them to be able to offer the engines for the price they do, they minimize the amount of "thinking" it takes on each engine...

so every engine they get in as a rebuildable core, what they will do is automatically turn the crank down to the minimum amount, put the biggest bearings in it...bore the cylinders to max and put the biggest piston and ring combo in it...

by doing this they avoid having to do any thinking about how much they have to take off before it will clean up and run right...bore it to the max and if its no good, throw it out.. saves them time and money..


so, is that a good engine? yes probably will run for 250-300k miles just like the oem, assuming you buy from a reputable engine rebuild place (that may be harder than you think..)

BUT...by doing so, you eliminate the possibility that you can do any major work to the engine down the road if you need to.

at the end of the engine rebuild house engine's life..its done. go to the yard to rot.

by rebuilding it yourself, you can determine what state the engine is in...

for example, my engine, while worn out and in need of a rebuild, only required me to deck the block .005" and bore the cylinders .015" to get it back to a nice clean straight finish....this is well within the allowable limits of another rebuild on the same block if i need to.

However, I did spend as much money as a rebuilt out of the box engine, or maybe more, because I used all OEM parts or better for mine.
I did not use any of the chinese crap you will get on the engine from these rebuild houses.

plus, by rebuilding it myself, I WAS ABLE TO SAVE MONEY, BUT i spent those savings on replacing some items that would normally not be replaced during an engine house rebuild engine..
my rationale, was that if I went the engine rebuild house method I would incur the difference in cost anyways... so I spent my savings on replacing other things.

For example:
witch hunter cleaned and matched injectors including cold start injector
New OEM radiator,
NEW radiator hoses
New OEM pcv valve and hoses
New OEM spark plug wires
NEW NGK spark plugs
New OEM modified oil pump
New OEM water pump
rebuilt OEM distributor
other misc oem hoses and clips
fuel filter
belts
etc../
all of that stuff normally won't come on a rebuilt engine house engine...but its all new on my truck..

so in the end, by rebuilding it myself, i have more time in it for sure..I spent the same, if not more money than a rebuilt engine, BUT I have more new parts and better quality parts all around than a rebuild house....AND i can rebuild it again if i NEED to.

Answer these questions:
1) would you rebuild it again after this time?
2) do you like / have patience to tinker?
3) do you have time to waste / money to burn if something goes wrong and you need to change it?

if you answer no to two of those....then i would pony up the cash and buy the rebuilt one..
just the experiences from someone who has done it
Good luck

Phew...that was a lot
 
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KLF said:
You can't post that without including the price.
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$1970 for short block, new. Going to talk to the misses and this may be a very good week for Sam if I get the nod.

And dang Bryan, your fingers are bound to be cramping up.

All of what you said has played thru my mind at some point. I had heard and as you confirmed that the engine guys do a one size fits all on the blocks and I want to use OEM internals. Several of the big items like starter, radiator, etc have been replaced recently with Denso or OEM parts, and I do plan on putting another 300k on this truck, so all things considered and knowing what I know after talking to Sam this morning, I think ordering a NEW short block from Mr. T is going to be my route.

I will slap some goodies on the top end like a head and cam from engnbldr or 22REperformance, put in some steel timing guides, OEM pumps, covers and gaskets and drop that puppy in.

I also had the injectors done a couple years ago and they are still shining like new pennies in amongst the madness.

Thanks for the info.
 
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so, you read my post and decided to rebuild / buy....a nice combo i suppose.

fwiw, i would try to salvage your oem toyota casted head if possible. (i.e. there was never any catastrophic timing cover / chain fail)

the engnbldr head is nice quality, but imo the cooling passages are not as good as the oem ones....

plus, if it aint broke dont fix it ya know...get some new quides, seals and valve job, make sure its straight and throw it on..
 
Hmmm... interesting about the cooling passages. Where might I find some reading on that? I need a new head from somewhere, mine has had some work done on it in the past. And yes I think I'm going to "build" one using a new OEM short block and put together a solid top end to finish it off.
 
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I am sure there is nothing wrong with the engnbldr heads....no one i know has had a cooling issue or anything...but having seen them side by side, the cooling passages in the oem head are much more finished and clean than the engnbldr ones. just my .02.....

so if your head is salvageable i would use it
 
I gotcha. I had the same impression of the timing cover I got from them a few years ago. I actually spent several hours deburring and polishing out the water and oil passages on it before I put it on my motor.

Anyone give any insight on the 22REPerformance heads? I am looking at either with the OS valves installed. Probably going to use engnbldr's 268C cam and 22RE's drilled rocker arm assembly.

So here is what I am thinking:

OEM shortblock
OEM timing cover
OEM oil pump
OEM water pump
OEM fuel filter
OEM gasket set
OEM timing set with a set of steel guides (I have a new set in a box)
Engnbldr or 22reP head and cam
22reP rocker shafts
OEM rockers
ARP studs
Tanked and cleaned intake
Cleaned and possibly ceramic coated stock manifold

Anything I may have missed?

I think that should give me a solid power plant that will do me for another 300k or 25 years.

All backed by a new Marlin clutch and flywheel.

Thanks for the input.
 
Lowe Toyota said:
:hhmm:
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What.... ? Wait, I hope it is ok that I put the price on here. I can take it off if you need me to.

Otherwise, I am gonna be discussing this more in depth with the holder of the purse strings tonight and should know something tomorrow when I call you back.
 
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jynx said:
I gotcha. I had the same impression of the timing cover I got from them a few years ago. I actually spent several hours deburring and polishing out the water and oil passages on it before I put it on my motor.

Anyone give any insight on the 22REPerformance heads? I am looking at either with the OS valves installed. Probably going to use engnbldr's 268C cam and 22RE's drilled rocker arm assembly.

So here is what I am thinking:

OEM shortblock
OEM timing cover
OEM oil pump
OEM water pump
OEM fuel filter
OEM gasket set
OEM timing set with a set of steel guides (I have a new set in a box)
Engnbldr or 22reP head and cam
22reP rocker shafts
OEM rockers
ARP studs
Tanked and cleaned intake
Cleaned and possibly ceramic coated stock manifold

Anything I may have missed?

I think that should give me a solid power plant that will do me for another 300k or 25 years.

All backed by a new Marlin clutch and flywheel.

Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

looks really good...like what i would do good. i can only add a couple things:
1) look into lc engineering rocker shafts, they have additional holes for added oiling. and maybe their higher volume oil pump. cost difference is minimal to oem and i know for a fact that its an aisin part that they modify for higher flow. not cheap china crap.

2)if you are going new oem rockers, (which is a solid idea imo) definitely spend the extra 25 bucks for NEW OEM valve lash adjusters, lock nuts, AND springs... you would be surprised how much noise a worn adjuster can make, even on a new rocker... they usually get overtorqued and glazed..its just bad.
then the whole valve train will be new.

3)also, make sure when installing the timing cover on short block that you have no more than a few thousandths step...the flatter the better. ( i have seen where if the step is too large, compression in #1 drops faster than the other cylinders, and is prone to head gasket failure prematurely...) if its more than a finger nail drag i would look into having a machine shop deck the top of the timing cover to match the block height.. if you use oem timing cover gaskets here, make sure to shave off the little extra at the top with a razor blade before applying fipg. there will be a little tit on there.

4)i think yours has the updated / later model intake plenum and throttle body since its a 90 right? if not, i would look into that...free bolt up upgrade.


dont mean to keep typing novels as responses here, but just stuff i found out as i went along from old timers that would have saved me time...
 
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one other note....dont make the same mistake as I did...

as you know, or soon will find out, the head bolts go through the cast "cradle" like assembly that also houses / locates the rocker shafts, then through the head and into the block.


MAKE SURE THAT YOUR AFTERMARKET HEAD HAS THE LITTLE CYLINDRICAL METAL ALIGNMENT PIN / BUSHING THINGYS TO CENTER THE CRADLE OVER THE HEAD BOLT HOLES IN THE HEAD. (I THINK THERE IS 8??) ANYWAY, IT WILL GO TOGETHER WITHOUT THEM, BUT IT WILL MAKE YOUR VALVE TO ROCKER ALIGNMENT ALL SCREWED UP LOOKING AND NOT CENTERED...ONLY WAY TO FIX IT IS TO UN-TORQUE THE HEAD, REPLACE PINS AND HEAD GASKET AND RETORQUE.....ASK ME HOW I KNOW..

There, its documented...i just saved you an hour of your life and however much the oem head gasket costs...lol
 
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