2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (2 Viewers)

[Brown98LC]

All I need is one solid 205mm tall rock drive over. One of them will, one won't. The Rav4 prime is also a lot faster. With the better power to weight ratio - it might be better in the sand than we think.

There's a lot more to being good off-road than the catalog of numbers and the LX is still a better vehicle for that in general. But the Rav4 will go down trails the LX can't without damaging the body. I'm mostly pointing out how compromised Toyota has made the LX. And in reality in the USA market - 85-90% are leased by the first owners and driven on asphalt only. Lessees don't modify them and they don't go off-road with them. It's made for the streets, not the trails. And there is no off road model in the USA. So, at least as far as north america is concerned, there's just no reason to sandbag the other models to protect a halo off-road model. The LX simply doesn't play in that market space even if it could with proper suspension and tires and is based on a model that does. The way Toyota brings it to the USA is targeted straight at city commuting, not playing in the dirt.

Sequoia probably wont' last past this generation is my guess. Sales are hard to know because Toyota isn't building enough. But I think they're outselling the LX by about 2:1 in the USA. After a big bump for 2021 with the new model, LX sales are down from the prior generation and the trends are down from there. With the new GX and TX - I think the Sequoia will outlive the LX in the USA. My guess is LX is gone in 5-7 years as sales drop below 1k per year. But, it's hard to really know because all of toyota's sales are slumping due to production. Either way, the LX will almost certainly not carry forward in a BOF version. Toyota has already said that all Lexus models will be EV only by 2030. There might be a "LX" nameplate on something like a RS1. But it won't be a BOF Land Cruiser variant. It'll be an EV skateboard with a SUV body.

Toyota has real problems with production. The idea that this will continue indefinitely where Toyota can under produce and increase margins is simply nonsense. The market is too competitive and others will fill the void with more competitive options as margins return to competitive levels. They already are. And it's not something Toyota can come back from without competing again on price.

I think the biggest open question we all keep circling is why there's going to be potentially 4 different SUVs that are all reskins of the same vehicle. And every one of them could be replaced by just selling the LC300 in the full range of trims from base to LX600. Toyota is going to a huge amount of work to recreate one product line that it already produces. And at the same time failing to have any meaningful range variation other than trim levels. It think the GX being a reskinned LC300 surprised a lot of us. It did for me. Same as the Tacoma sharing most of the LC300 underpinnings and having arguably better suspension. We knew the GX-F was going to unify the basic platform for everything. I certainly didn't expect it to mean that everything would actually be almost the same product. The 4Runner is still a big open question, so it'll be interesting to see if it really is another LC300 reskin or something smaller and lighter.

It will be interesting to see what happens when they go full EV in certain models going forward. The LX has so much potential honestly and for its price it could be way way better, even in its current platform. The same applies to the LC300.
The biggest market for the LX is the Middle East and the LX is a strong seller ( easily best in class ) At its peak it would average almost 50k unites yearly globally, and while that may not be even half of global LC200/LC300 sales, that is a very respectable number for a luxury vehicle of the LX price bracket. I don't see that changing anytime soon, though initially it seems what's crippling global LX sales at the moment is lack of inventory but the pace seems to be picking up slowly

I also don't see them forcing all electric vehicles on the Middle East in 10 years time so without a doubt the next gen LX will still get petrol variants. It is way too soon to be talking of an all electric only switch in the Middle East for cars like the LX, so Lexus being a global brand ( even though the name literally means Luxury imports to the US ) is going to have to cater to different markets.

I personally see room for another vehicle that is sort of equal to the LX/LS but not body on frame and that could potentially replace the LX in the US, if sales continue to be poor in the next few years.

 

[M1911]

Unless there is a major improvement in battery technology, I don’t see a full transition to EVs being remotely possible. We don’t have enough cobalt or lithium. The current EV pickups have shown us it is not sustainable — cost and weight are simply too high to get appropriate range.

 

[Jetboy]

It will be interesting to see what happens when they go full EV in certain models going forward. The LX has so much potential honestly and for its price it could be way way better, even in its current platform. The same applies to the LC300.
The biggest market for the LX is the Middle East and the LX is a strong seller ( easily best in class ) At its peak it would average almost 50k unites yearly globally, and while that may not be even half of global LC200/LC300 sales, that is a very respectable number for a luxury vehicle of the LX price bracket. I don't see that changing anytime soon, though initially it seems what's crippling global LX sales at the moment is lack of inventory but the pace seems to be picking up slowly

I also don't see them forcing all electric vehicles on the Middle East in 10 years time so without a doubt the next gen LX will still get petrol variants. It is way too soon to be talking of an all electric only switch in the Middle East for cars like the LX, so Lexus being a global brand ( even though the name literally means Luxury imports to the US ) is going to have to cater to different markets.

I personally see room for another vehicle that is sort of equal to the LX/LS but not body on frame and that could potentially replace the LX in the US, if sales continue to be poor in the next few years.

The LX should only come with AHC in my opinion. That is the basic system that gives it plenty of street cred as a plausible off-road option. Without it and suspension set to under 8 inches of clearance - it's pretty hard to make that argument when almost every softroad crossover has better clearance.

However, even with a more street oriented setup - I think it can also live alongside a GX that's better off-road and share the same price structure. The Land Rover lineup is a good example. They're basically all the same thing with different trim ranges.. The Defender and Discovery are nearly identical other than body type and trim options. One is off-road theme and the other is a highway version. And they overlap almost entirely in price range as well. Defender ranges from $45k-$115k, Discovery ranges from $55k - $78k. The same could also be a good fit for a 4Runner that ranges from $40-65k LC250 that ranges from $50k-$70k while the GX ranges from $60-90k and a LX that ranges from $85-120. Overlapping price ranges is almost universal in other manufacturers lineups. Not sure why Toyota wouldn't do it with its BOF suvs. Especially when they're all basically the same vehicle.

 

[Brown98LC]

The LX should only come with AHC in my opinion. That is the basic system that gives it plenty of street cred as a plausible off-road option. Without it and suspension set to under 8 inches of clearance - it's pretty hard to make that argument when almost every softroad crossover has better clearance.

However, even with a more street oriented setup - I think it can also live alongside a GX that's better off-road and share the same price structure. The Land Rover lineup is a good example. They're basically all the same thing with different trim ranges.. The Defender and Discovery are nearly identical other than body type and trim options. One is off-road theme and the other is a highway version. And they overlap almost entirely in price range as well. Defender ranges from $45k-$115k, Discovery ranges from $55k - $78k. The same could also be a good fit for a 4Runner that ranges from $40-65k LC250 that ranges from $50k-$70k while the GX ranges from $60-90k and a LX that ranges from $85-120. Overlapping price ranges is almost universal in other manufacturers lineups. Not sure why Toyota wouldn't do it with its BOF suvs. Especially when they're all basically the same vehicle.

So much untapped potential with these vehicles, I just hope they get the yearly updates they deserve! It seems like they are trying to speed up updates compared to before, so hopefully that is a good sign to see these vehicles reach their full potential.
I am eagerly looking forward to the first LX facelift.

Back in 1998 when the LX 470/LC100 launched, Land Rover benchmarked the hell out of the LC100 platform when they were developing the LR322 model, it truly was the gold standard back in the golden Era of Toyota/Lexus.

The GX 470/Prado 120 was also excellent when launched in 2002 as MY2003, and arguably set the theme for BoF Toyota products for the next 20 years.

 

[jayp2]

Unless there is a major improvement in battery technology, I don’t see a full transition to EVs being remotely possible. We don’t have enough cobalt or lithium. The current EV pickups have shown us it is not sustainable — cost and weight are simply too high to get appropriate range.

First off....the proposed rule change wont fly and they know it.

Second, the electric grid in pretty much every part of the US wont handle a rapid shift to charging vehicles

Toyota CEO doubles down on EV strategy amid criticism it's not moving fast enough

Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda said Thursday the company will move forward with plans to offer an array of so-called electrified vehicles for the foreseeable future.

www.cnbc.com

They are also correct in their assessment of lack of popularity

Toyota chief cites “silent majority” as argument against an EV-only future

The transition to the electric vehicle age appears to be all but certain with the success of Tesla, but veteran automaker Toyota is still not fully convinced that EVs are the only way forward. In recent comments, Toyota President Akio Toyoda stated that he is part of the automotive industry’s...

www.teslarati.com

Lets not forget...

Ford says it will burn $3 billion on EVs this year, in a bleak signal for the cars that underpin its future

Ford's popular electric vehicles like the Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning aren't making the company any money.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Jetboy]

So much untapped potential with these vehicles, I just hope they get the yearly updates they deserve! It seems like they are trying to speed up updates compared to before, so hopefully that is a good sign to see these vehicles reach their full potential.
I am eagerly looking forward to the first LX facelift.

Back in 1998 when the LX 470/LC100 launched, Land Rover benchmarked the hell out of the LC100 platform when they were developing the LR322 model, it truly was the gold standard back in the golden Era of Toyota/Lexus.

The GX 470/Prado 120 was also excellent when launched in 2002 as MY2003, and arguably set the theme for BoF Toyota products for the next 20 years.

Toyota used to make often significant updates mid-cycle. Especially if you go back 30 years. The 1st gen 4Runner switched from solid axle to IFS and added fuel injection and then a v6 all within one generation. The third gen added a bunch of updates over the 7 year product cycle like a rear locker and an awd transfer case. And then the 4th gen went in retrograde by removing the supercharger options mid-cycle. IIRC the LC100 also lost the rear locker option mid cycle. While oddly the 4th gen 4Runner gained a rear locker for the last year. And then the 5th gen 4R that was basically a reskin carryover had effectively zero changes other than cosmetic for its entire 20 year production cycle. And product frequency was twice what it is now. Hopefully we see more movement back toward routine updates on the BOF models. If nothing else - unifying the platform should help spread the costs of updates to more vehicles to help provide more incentive to work on mid cycle updates.

As far as the LX - I don't think there's really anything to update currently in the parts bin if the mission is luxury city suv unless they go with a 4cyl PHEV model. That would be a big update. I wouldn't want the hybrid even if it were free. There's only 67cf of cargo volume already. The hybrid would start to rival a GS sedan for cargo space. I mean - it only has 41 cubic feet with the middle row up. The GS has 18 in the trunk. If you took up 20 CF with a hybrid system they get closer than they should. Ugh. I'm not sure what else you'd do though unless they remove the spare and use a doughnut and put the battery in that location. Could happen I suppose. Or move the spare to the rear door? That works aesthetically on the LC250/GX with a side swing door. Not so much on the LX with a hatch. I just don't see how a hybrid really works on the LX unless they use a new battery technology to make a much smaller pack or rework the underside to fit it somewhere between the frame rails. There's plenty of space there, just requires enough engineering to make it work and Toyota has been pretty consistent in wanting the battery above the frame to protect it (but don't worry about that big plastic container full of gasoline hanging down guys.

Other than a hybrid or a more powerful tune- what else would they do to update the LX? Only cosmetic stuff is coming to mind for me. Mostly updating the interior to drop the dual screen setup and possibly adding a panoramic roof.

 

[Brown98LC]

Toyota used to make often significant updates mid-cycle. Especially if you go back 30 years. The 1st gen 4Runner switched from solid axle to IFS and added fuel injection and then a v6 all within one generation. The third gen added a bunch of updates over the 7 year product cycle like a rear locker and an awd transfer case. And then the 4th gen went in retrograde by removing the supercharger options mid-cycle. IIRC the LC100 also lost the rear locker option mid cycle. While oddly the 4th gen 4Runner gained a rear locker for the last year. And then the 5th gen 4R that was basically a reskin carryover had effectively zero changes other than cosmetic for its entire 20 year production cycle. And product frequency was twice what it is now. Hopefully we see more movement back toward routine updates on the BOF models. If nothing else - unifying the platform should help spread the costs of updates to more vehicles to help provide more incentive to work on mid cycle updates.

As far as the LX - I don't think there's really anything to update currently in the parts bin if the mission is luxury city suv unless they go with a 4cyl PHEV model. That would be a big update. I wouldn't want the hybrid even if it were free. There's only 67cf of cargo volume already. The hybrid would start to rival a GS sedan for cargo space. I mean - it only has 41 cubic feet with the middle row up. The GS has 18 in the trunk. If you took up 20 CF with a hybrid system they get closer than they should. Ugh. I'm not sure what else you'd do though unless they remove the spare and use a doughnut and put the battery in that location. Could happen I suppose. Or move the spare to the rear door? That works aesthetically on the LC250/GX with a side swing door. Not so much on the LX with a hatch. I just don't see how a hybrid really works on the LX unless they use a new battery technology to make a much smaller pack or rework the underside to fit it somewhere between the frame rails. There's plenty of space there, just requires enough engineering to make it work and Toyota has been pretty consistent in wanting the battery above the frame to protect it (but don't worry about that big plastic container full of gasoline hanging down guys.

Other than a hybrid or a more powerful tune- what else would they do to update the LX? Only cosmetic stuff is coming to mind for me. Mostly updating the interior to drop the dual screen setup and possibly adding a panoramic roof.

The interior is terrible.

That alone is enough of an update.

Very curious to see how they package the 700h.

 

[M1911]

The interior is terrible.

Which vehicle?

 

[malden]

Lots of us just want a third world version of a new land (cruiser) rover

Fixed it for you.

The Grenadier is a beast. Really curious to see how it sells!

 

[Brown98LC]

Which vehicle?

LX 600
I don't like the interior.

I think the top spec Toyota LC300 is laid out better than the 600 inside. I don't doubt the quality/materials used just the layout looks a bit of a mess.

 

[M1911]

LX 600
I don't like the interior.

I think the top spec Toyota LC300 is laid out better than the 600 inside. I don't doubt the quality/materials used just the layout looks a bit of a mess.

Agreed. The LX 600 center stack is a hot mess.

 

[Jetboy]

A few small details give me pause. But it's probably a great vehicle.

The stuff I see initially is that the front and rear skids look odd and will likely hang-up a lot if you go play in rocks. They probably do a good job of protecting everything from rocks and gravel in a convoy. The front steering stabilizer damper will have a very short life. It's a low point and totally exposed. I think that would be broken off the first day on any harder trail as would the low steering tie rod. The LC80 did a much better job of that design all around. They should have copied it. And the brakes look light/small. Fronts are vented rotors, but use a 2 piston floating caliper. Rears are non-vented discs and have a single cyl floating caliper. Not dealbreakers. But not as reliable/robust as the typical toyota 4 piston front caliper design. And even the 4Runner has big vented rear rotors that the Ineos doesn't. It's probably not built for towing, so it doesn't matter. But that's just a few things I notice from the limited pictures I've seen.

The sway bar that is up in front of the engine is odd. Not sure if that's good or bad. It's just unusual. I think they got the coil spring design and inboard location right, not sure about the shocks being so far inboard - I'd like to see them pushed out toward the corners more for better control at speed - although that's also probably not a design criteria for this vehicle.

I like the I6 engine. Detuned it'll probably last a long time and be easy enough to service.

Might be a really good setup if it's reliable and comfortable on the highway. Probably not ever really going to challenge the Raptors or similar in the technical stuff. I'm curious to see what it weighs and fuel efficiency and things like that.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

There will be a "Private Event" at the Land Cruiser Heritage Museum in Salt Lake City from July 29th to August 2nd.

Since Toyota showed their FJ40 in the teaser photos it seems likely this will be the LC250 Reveal. It also lines up with several articles about the reveal being in August.

Update: yes it is the reveal.

 

[M1911]

Sounds like a press event. There will likely be an embargo for at least a few weeks after that.

 

[malden]

A few small details give me pause. But it's probably a great vehicle.

The stuff I see initially is that the front and rear skids look odd and will likely hang-up a lot if you go play in rocks. They probably do a good job of protecting everything from rocks and gravel in a convoy. The front steering stabilizer damper will have a very short life. It's a low point and totally exposed. I think that would be broken off the first day on any harder trail as would the low steering tie rod. The LC80 did a much better job of that design all around. They should have copied it. And the brakes look light/small. Fronts are vented rotors, but use a 2 piston floating caliper. Rears are non-vented discs and have a single cyl floating caliper. Not dealbreakers. But not as reliable/robust as the typical toyota 4 piston front caliper design. And even the 4Runner has big vented rear rotors that the Ineos doesn't. It's probably not built for towing, so it doesn't matter. But that's just a few things I notice from the limited pictures I've seen.

The sway bar that is up in front of the engine is odd. Not sure if that's good or bad. It's just unusual. I think they got the coil spring design and inboard location right, not sure about the shocks being so far inboard - I'd like to see them pushed out toward the corners more for better control at speed - although that's also probably not a design criteria for this vehicle.

I like the I6 engine. Detuned it'll probably last a long time and be easy enough to service.

Might be a really good setup if it's reliable and comfortable on the highway. Probably not ever really going to challenge the Raptors or similar in the technical stuff. I'm curious to see what it weighs and fuel efficiency and things like that.

I saw one in the British Racing Green and it looked the business. Interior was great as well. I would love to drive one. Until then and more reports, no idea what it is going to be worth. It had better be reliable but adequate comfort on the road will likely be the best you’ll get. It’s going to be priced with the LC250 and GX, so I am curious to see how it does. It will either prove or disprove the paradigm that says no one wants a modern but charming old school off road machine/beast. Any revenue INEOS gets from this truck would not even make a ripple in Toyota's balance sheet. And even if the Grenadier has great success in N America, and I think it may well do, it won't tempt Toyota to compete with it in any way, shape or form. Cheers

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

I would be surprised if the 4runner doesn't get some version of E-KDSS. It seems weird having such a nice system and then only having it on so little vehicle cross the range.

I think it will get the sway bar disconnect like the Tacoma. I think EKDSS will be used to distinguish the LC from the 4Runner.

 

[Brown98LC]

I'm very excited to see the global most basic UN spec versions.

 

[M1911]

Fixed it for you.

The Grenadier is a beast. Really curious to see how it sells!

I'm not a fan of the fake aircraft dash and overhead panel. It's way too pretentious. While I like the pseudo Defender styling, it's likely going to be noisy on the highway and have horrid fuel economy.

 

[malden]

I'm not a fan of the fake aircraft dash and overhead panel. It's way too pretentious. While I like the pseudo Defender styling, it's likely going to be noisy on the highway and have horrid fuel economy.

I can't imagine why they chose to mix a French modern faux Airbus vibe with understated British icon stuff. In real life, it is not as bad as what you see in videos, but it was not an optimum selection. Otherwise, the interior is very nice and it screams to be driven. No idea how agricultural the drive and handling will be but the mphs should be right up there with the worst and on a par with LCs. If it hits the right nerve, I suspect they will sell lots of them.

 

[Jetboy]

I think it will get the sway bar disconnect like the Tacoma. I think EKDSS will be used to distinguish the LC from the 4Runner.

I think that seems like it would fit with what is coming. I'm curious about why they have both and not just use KDSS for the Tacoma as well. I'm not sure it's clear yet whether eKDSS is better or not and it will probably be dependent on what you're doing. Unfortunately, I think the Tacoma is front disconnect only. That's probably where KDSS will be a better option - it works on both ends. I think KDSS tends to shine at lower speed and a disconnect really shines at higher speeds when you start to run into fluid flow limits. KDSS can be harsh at mid to higher speeds. Also no issues with lifts where KDSS is problematic. I'm also pretty curious to see how Toyota has implemented the disconnect - is it a dog clutch or ??? and how reliable/robust it is.

KDSS is still my preferred choice based on what I know and my experience with it, but I've yet to see the Taco or eKDSS in person. I hope they continue to offer it in the 4Runner TRD OR / Trail models along with the sway disconnect in the TRD Pro version. I always thought it was really odd that Toyota never put KDSS in a Limited Trim 4Runner. Toyota never made an ultimate 150 series. They should have done at least one version of it with AWD, KDSS, Fox bypass shocks, V8, and a rear locker.