I know which one I’d pay more attention to. The JDPower initial quality survey only looks at the first 90 days of ownership. Even a Land Rover should do well in that. The first people to get their new Broncos were good for 90 days, now they have recalls, stop sales, transmissions grenading, wheels falling off for no reason, etc. I feel like I could build a car in my garage that would be ok for 90 days, after that…
2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (1 Viewer)
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One problem I have with a lot of these modern "quality" and "reliability" surveys is that they include the entertainment electronics and will even often state that a lot of complaints are related to those systems. While important, I think there should be separate rankings for critical mechanical quality (will my car turn on and drive) and non-critical electronics (will my IPhone connect to the Nav system).
yea....but the way the automakers tie so many systems together into the main screen means that when there is a glitch its more than a bluetooth issue.
For some reason the masses keep voting with their dollars to encourage the makers to keep making cars more complicated and expensive. Its baffling.
They keep trying to fix a problem that was never there.
For some reason the masses keep voting with their dollars to encourage the makers to keep making cars more complicated and expensive. Its baffling.
They keep trying to fix a problem that was never there.
Agreed, that is one reason I like the CR ratings, they drill down to each system in their actual user surveys. Here is screen shot of the data for the Tundra, model years 2012 - 2022. Major items at the top and In-Car Electronics at the end.
Do people demand to buy white, black and gray cars/trucks? No, but it is the cheapest common denominator auto manufacturers have figured out to put on the lot to sell since other colors may sit 9.459203 days longer on the lot.
Likewise, technology, that's an arms race between manufacturers to one-up each other. My wife loves her seat position button, me, I never use mind, and the list goes on for each consumer.
But even there they have declared it below average based on paint, trim, noises, leaks, body hardware and in car electronics. The vast majority of its mechanical systems are bright green.Agreed, that is one reason I like the CR ratings, they drill down to each system in their actual user surveys. Here is screen shot of the data for the Tundra, model years 2012 - 2022. Major items at the top and In-Car Electronics at the end.
I still think they need to separate critical systems from non-critical and give two scores.
In my opinion that Tundra should have a green to dark green mechanical score and orange for the others.
Sorry to keep adding to this.... and I am hardly sold on the new turbo engines reliability, but I suspect a lot more of these Tundras will still be rolling along at 300k, 500k, 1M miles than most the trucks with a higher rating because the most important things will still be working.
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they buy them, so the makers keep making them.
if only blue cars were selling, all cars would be blue.
we get what we deserve and vote for unfortunately 'we' are quite dumb and do things against our best interest over and over again.
bronco and jeeps can come with 35 inch tires, some levels even with 37inch from the factory.
I’m sure the Prado is nice, but it is not competing in the same space. You are going to be putting in another 15k to get close to what the others offer and it won’t be factory level warrantied and fit.
I think they will sell well like every other Toyota. But they still have a market they aren’t in
I’m sure the Prado is nice, but it is not competing in the same space. You are going to be putting in another 15k to get close to what the others offer and it won’t be factory level warrantied and fit.
I think they will sell well like every other Toyota. But they still have a market they aren’t in
Yes, it is very hard to tell what Toyota’s mission is after two pretty disastrous reveals. And if their intent turns out to be commercial seppuku, as it appears to be, many of us hope that it is as slow, and drawn out a process as possible and covered live on NTV worldwide.
Its hard to tell what the Prado/LC is aimed at because it looks like just about everything and nothing, but a good guess may be Telluride. Toyota may as well have Kia make the LC for them. And I am convinced the new LC will not sell well in a hyper saturated market; and imagine a good strategy would be to wait a year to grab one at give away prices as they accumulate on lots worldwide.
No one I know, all devoted LC followers for generations, will buy the new Prado simply for the fact that they were not inclined to buy the old one either. Most of them are Range Rover owners now. They went kicking and screaming, but had no choice. They were pretty much forced to buy either a Prado or a Toyota Land Yacht instead of a Land Cruiser, so they went to the dark side of the force and bought a Range. At least that boat has some snob appeal.
Though I do not know much about the car, I am less worried about the GX because it seems to have a following in the States and some brand loyalty. And purely from an aesthetic point of view, the 550 is a massive upgrade. But like the new Prado, it will be DOA in Europe.
Toyota is not interested in the off road market. They have no intent to go after Bronco, or Wrangler (or INEOS). Has the message not been received loud and clear after literally decades of neglect now?
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Toyota is quite perplexing these days...
Despite the reliability issues, the bronco is the most interesting vehicle in that off road segment and its sales show that.
I really don't need the new LC to be a bronco or bronco competitor as so much be interesting and be given a reason to buy one. I am totally fine with the form factor of GX/LC as long as its at a price point that makes sense.
The 4R/LC/GX/LX all feel like minor tweaks to the same vehicle and there really is not a substantial difference between the group. I like the GX overland concept but if feels closer related to a TRD Sport option than a TRD Pro. Is that a deal killer, no, but if the LC does have a TRD option but they end up putting the Tacoma engine in it. Thats going to be a hard pass on both vehicles for me.
I would like for Toyota to provide a brief 3 to 4 sentence video game style description on what is a GX, or LC, or LX or 4R, what is the value proposition of purchasing that vehicle vs the 3 other vehicles in that they sell in that class, because as a long time toyota owner, I really don't know. Outside of being able to call GX owners brokies, what am I getting with a luxury LX over a luxury GX? And the same thing applies to a GX over an 250.?
I know that if go from say something like an F-150 Tremor, to a Raptor, to a Raptor R, I am getting something tangible for that price increase.
Tremor, Solid Offroad trim variate of the F150.
Raptor, Tremor with an overbuilt suspension.
Raptor R, Raptor with a super charger.
For toyota
4runner, Great suspension, underpowered motor
LC Great suspension, better motor
GX Lower tier suspension, with nicer seat covers and panoramic roof
LX Factory Suspension can be equipped with nicer captain's chairs, but you don't get a panoramic roof because reasons. have to spend over 100k to option out of 22inch wheels.
The Japanese review “Best Car” has an interesting article where they report that below the new “Twilight of the Gods” Land Cruiser sunset teaser image was the following text from Toyota: “With 65 years of heritage, you can choose to slow down or reinvent yourself. We chose the latter. Stay tuned for more updates.”
うぉぉぉ、トヨタ公式が新型プラドちら見せ!! 王者感漂う角ボディがアツい!! 「ランクル250」は「プラド」になるのか - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」 - https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/672270
That self-inflicted below the belt shot is a brutally honest admission that fits perfectly with their last few decades behavior. Toyota, the poor darlings, are having a mid-life identity crisis and after seeking counseling, they have decided to throw 65 years of Heritage under the new buses they are going to make.
Rather than leverage Heritage against their foes (the only weapon they have), they have chosen to toss it and open the fortress gates wide for Ford, Jeep, Defender and INEOS on the Offroad side and every other manufacturer and his brother-in-law on the Station Wagon side.
Yes, Toyota is quite perplexing these days…
I wouldn't look that deep into it.
Toyota still makes the 70 series LC that is very true to the original Land Cruiser recipe from the early days.
Lets be real, in places around the world where its a life and death situation, they use land cruisers, not wranglers.
Toyota still makes the 70 series LC that is very true to the original Land Cruiser recipe from the early days.
Lets be real, in places around the world where its a life and death situation, they use land cruisers, not wranglers.
Problem isnt whether toyota is making a 70 series
Its whether they bring it to the US where sales of school busses badges as land cruisers isnt popular.....meanwhile sales of vehicles that fit the form factor of 70's sells more than 200,000 units every year in the US (Bronco/Jeep)
Its whether they bring it to the US where sales of school busses badges as land cruisers isnt popular.....meanwhile sales of vehicles that fit the form factor of 70's sells more than 200,000 units every year in the US (Bronco/Jeep)
The 70 series is nowhere near as refined as a the current Wrangler/Bronco or whatever else to daily drive.
It won't even come close to selling as much as those do without some re-engineering.
I can buy a brand new 70 series if I want, but my school bus will go every place it can with more comfort.
They would need a brand new vehicle from the ground up, like the FJ Cruiser but doesn't look like a clown car.
Let see how the new US Land Cruiser does, it may surprise us all.
The 4R sold over 120k units in the US in 2022, that is very impressive.
Toyota mods every model for different markets
They would do the same for a 70 series
Lets stop making excuses for why a land cruiser competitor to the Jeep and Bronco shouldnt come to the US
Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
All the more reason to bring the new 70, even as a limited edition of 5K -10K units, into more markets but especially to N America. My gut instincts tell me it would be a publicity dynamo that would light sales of all Toyota products.
You in the ME could get a 70 and going the agricultural route I could get one too, if I didn’t already have one. But if the figures that TexasFunCruiser gave us that 5% of buyers really use these trucks for extreme offroad and the figure of 200,000 units of Bronco/Wrangler is correct, that means there are 10,000 potential clients for the FJ 70 in N America! Toyota, give them the goods and do yourself a world of good in the process!
If they wanted to, they would have, but they won't. The 70 series is never ever coming to the US. If it undergoes a full model change in the future, who knows but that's a stretch to even speculate about;
The cheapest and most cost saving option was to give you guys the 250 because you wanted a cheaper Land Cruiser.
Cost them next to nothing to do that because it was coming regardless if you guys wanted it or not ( as it sells pretty well around the world ).
Lets wait and see how the most ''offroad'' worthy version fo the US Land Cruiser stacks up to its rivals in stock form, we may be in for a surprise.
We also still don't know yet how well it will sell, if it ends up being a crazy seller, maybe we will see more creativity?.
It really is a shame a short wheel base version of the Prado won't be happening this time, that would have been pretty cool I think to offer, but I guess they couldn't justify the costs.
This is why the LC bombed so badly in NA that it was pulled entirely a few years back
Now they're doing same thing all over....offering another school bus when demonstrated market demand says they're way off the paper
I totally know what you are talking about & definitely think some sort of 70 series like vehicle, or 70 that is safe and passes US regulations would be a dream vehicle.
They actually updated the 79 for Australia a few years ago to get a 5 star rating in ANCAP safety tests, not sure how that compares to US crash tests.
it is actually pretty impressive how they can keep updating the 70 that is almost 40 years old to keep it relevant. Surely one day they won't be able to keep doing that and will need a clean sheet redesign?
Thank you, here is the Google Translate version for us non-Japanese speakers.
うぉぉぉ、トヨタ公式が新型プラドちら見せ!! 王者感漂う角ボディがアツい!! 「ランクル250」は「プラド」になるのか - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
トヨタUSAがしれっとサイドシルエットがわかるティザー画像を公開した。そこには懐かしいランクルと思しきクロカン4WDと、どこかで見たようなシルエットの新しい4WDが。これはもしかして……、新型ランクルプラドじゃないの!! 速報でお届けしま…
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