N/m....Happy Friday.
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If the above were true and toyota marketing/admin always covers their bases/makes great decisions then explain how they bolluxed the LC soooooo badly in the US that they pulled it from the US entirely?
Jeep sells over 1100 units every month and has for YEARS
Ford has sold ~250,000 bronco's since its re-launch
If thats not a target rich environment to offer a Toyota competitor (ie "FJ73" NOT a rolling living room) well.....then.....Toyota deserves to fail on this one
No, it’s not strange.
The cost isn’t just the engineering to design the transmission. Manufacturers need to crash test, emissions test, and fuel economy test each drivetrain variation for a vehicle. The Taco sold over 200,000 vehicles in 2022. With that much volume, Toyota can amortize the testing cost over enough vehicles to make it worthwhile to spend the money to federalize the Taco with a manual transmission.
But the Prado won’t sell in those numbers. The testing cost will be the same, but instead of amortizing the testing cost over 200,000+ vehicles, they would have to amortime that cost over 5,000 to 40,000 Prados (planned quantities depend upon who you talk to).
The higher the volume of sales, the more drivetrain options the manufacturer can economically support. At smaller volumes, they can only economically support a single drivetrain (unless it is a very high priced vehicle).
It is simple math. If the testing costs $50,000,000 per vehicle-drivetrain and Taco sales are 200,000, then the testing cost per vehicle is $50M / 200,000 = $250. If Prado sales are 40,000 then the testing cost per vehicle is $50M / 40,000 = $1,250. Now do you see the problem?
I think that while Toyota will continue to crush the boring appliance segment of the automobile world, I think they will continue to struggle compared to the domestics. I think the toyota sold a ton of LC's when it really was without any peers. Jeep would of been the closest competitor but have always been plagued by Chrysler engineering.
30 years ago, the domestics didn't produce a vehicle that could compete with an LC be it on the trail, or day to day reliability. 30 years ago there really wasn't anything interesting on the market.
Fast forward to today, Reliability has improved dramatically across the board and at least in the truck segment, everything is available with lockers and crawl control and more often than not more fuel efficient than anything Toyota has available.
Everything is expensive today, and I am willing to forgo some theoretical reliability on a new vehicle that is under warranty if they nail the design, especially considering that Toyota loves voiding warranties of modified vehicles.
I think that while Toyota will continue to crush the boring appliance segment of the automobile world, I think they will continue to struggle compared to the domestics. I think the toyota sold a ton of LC's when it really was without any peers. Jeep would of been the closest competitor but have always been plagued by Chrysler engineering.
30 years ago, the domestics didn't produce a vehicle that could compete with an LC be it on the trail, or day to day reliability. 30 years ago there really wasn't anything interesting on the market.
Fast forward to today, Reliability has improved dramatically across the board and at least in the truck segment, everything is available with lockers and crawl control and more often than not more fuel efficient than anything Toyota has available.
Everything is expensive today, and I am willing to forgo some theoretical reliability on a new vehicle that is under warranty if they nail the design, especially considering that Toyota loves voiding warranties of modified vehicles.
No, the testing occurs in each vehicle. Fuel economy and emissions testing is don't on a naked powertrain, it is done on the vehicle.also testing for this drivetrain has already been done, it would only take federalizing costs to put this drive train in the new LC or 4R
That only covers crash testing. Epa emissions and fuel economy testing also occurs. Manufacturers do their own development crash testing to ensure that the vehicle behaves properly during a crash. I suspect that they do crash testing for each different engine, not sure if they do it for each engine/transmission combination, but I suspect that they do.I agree with the premise of your argument but you saying that it costs $50M to test each model misses the mark. Official tests are paid for by either NHTSA or IIHS, which cost ~$10 million each year per agency for 90 to 125 tests annually (thats 90 to 125 models annually), or approximately $100K per vehicle. (see quotes and links below.)
Auto manufacturers may conduct their own development tests at labs such as Calspan Corporation. Each model requires approximately 9 tests total, if we are generous it may cost $50K-$100K per individual test (not model). If you failed a particular test during development you would retest that particular test, not all. So the cost to an auto manufacturer per model is on the order of $1M max per model or trim, not $50M.
I've worked in engineering product development and project management for my entire career, granted in a different industry, aerospace. However, aerospace testing far exceeds the costs of the automotive industry testing. If I ever had to give management an estimate for testing of $50M, my project would never be approved.
So updating your figures: If the testing costs $1M per vehicle-drivetrain and Taco sales are 200,000, then the testing cost per vehicle is $1M / 200,000 = $5. If Prado sales are 40,000 then the testing cost per vehicle is $1M / 40,000 = $25. Now do you see how the cost is reasonable?
NHTSA - 3 crash tests (frontal, side and rollover tests)
IIHS - 6 crash tests (Driver's-side small-overlap front, moderate-overlap front, side, roof-strength, passenger-side small-overlap test, and head-restraint crash tests)
"former NHTSA acting and deputy administrator, says that although the agency might leave some vehicles out, focusing on top-selling cars is a wise move, considering that it pays for the cars it crash-tests, which can cost $10 million each year. For the most part, the IIHS also pays for the cars it tests."
The federal agency now conducts 90 to 125 tests annually
Fast forward to today, Reliability has improved dramatically across the board and at least in the truck segment
Lots of discussion - but none about what's probably the biggest most important advance in offroad technology in this generation: gas shock mounted seats! Will the LC250 get gas shock mounted seats? And if so - will it one-up the Taco and use remote reservoir gas shocks in the seat suspension?
And - will it have "rated" tow hooks. Because - if it's just a very robust welded steel loop and not a red painted rated tow hook - it's plainly not safe.
One can dream, and take the current Prado line in other countries either from South America or Australia to make some predictions: Three or four levels/trims, with the highest for example in Australia being the Kakadu (in Colombia there are three trim levels for example, the VX being the highest), which it is a Lexus GX pretty much in the USA. So, if we eliminate the highest level of the "Prado" line and leave it to the Lexus GX recently announced, then we end up with two or three more trims. If I had a choice, I will pick the lowest trim grade Prado GX, but with all the off-road capabilities. Currently the Prado GX does not offer KDSS, that is a bit of a let down for me, as I have enjoyed it a lot in both my 4Runners and LC/Lexus'.
I am certainly very puzzled to see how Toyota will position the new LC in the USA as a Prado, and REALLY hoping they finally make it a more affordable choice of an excellent off/on road SUV with a down to earth trim. I enjoy the nice extra things inside in my LC, but I would be way happier than now with all the greatness of the legendary LC sans the "extra" expensive stuff.
Not really sure how much MPG we could really gain from the new V6 Turbo engines, but I also really hope at least 5 to 7 MPG improvement. Much rather prefer a simpler NA beast, but it is a trend we will not be able to change, the boat has sailed there... I would take a bet on Toyota and trust they know what they are doing, and hope the V6 Turbo becomes as legendary as the engines we have seen. This new idea of a LC-Prado in the USA comes at the right time for me. I have been planing to start gearing towards a Pan-American trip (it will take time, but I needed to start one day and somewhere, so need to be patient), and the 5 to 7 mpg difference in gas and money make a big one once you are talking +40K miles.
I am not sure if the new Lexus GX price has been announced, but seeing the 600's in the $100k's I can only guess the Lexus GX is going to be $80K or so? So, yes. I really hope a say "USA Prado GX or GXL" is offered to us here, and that it is not going to be a $80K truck, but more like a say $50K or so. Down to earth with basic interior but all the greatness of the Legendary Land Cruiser ! And against my own reflexions and reasoning for not getting a brand new vehicle, I will buy one, even though I have my quails about the Turbo engines...
One can only hope....
G.
So I found the model codes for the Next Prado/LC250 on the Toyota Europe tech website....
GDJ250 ( 1GD-FTV - Carryover)
View attachment 3362686
TRJ250 ( 2TR-FE - Carryover)
View attachment 3362688
TJA250 ... on the website the engine code is L4T.. I am assuming this is placeholder for what really is the T2A-FTA - even if it is, then I think the hybrid and non hybrid share the same engine code so we can't tell yet which version..though I think for the US the hybrid is probably almost certain.
View attachment 3362689
This is what I could find so far..but no more 1GR for the first time in over 20 years on the Prado.
I couldn't find any other details as nothing has been uploaded yet.
I agree, and that way one could fully build it out. I would like to have a basic sunroof, though. No panoramic BS.Thank you!
Ok, so it looks like three trims in EU. I would hope USA would have at least two trims, but very doubtful... Probably just one , and the highest level, perhaps with two engine options with the Turbo V6 and the Hybrid. Man, I wish so bad they would offer the stripe down version in the USA, priced in between the highest luxurious trimmed T4R, and the Lexus GX !.
Would be the world. ! But ain't gonna happen, unfortunately. They will do ONE trim , and maybe two engine options, tops.I agree, and that way one could fully build it out. I would like to have a basic sunroof, though. No panoramic BS.