2018 LC w/ Warped Rotors: Advice on replacement

[eatSleepWoof]

I have akebono ceramics in my beater and for normal driving, noise, and dust, they are great. But even moderate braking from very high speeds, they aren't happy.. which makes me think they won't handle high heat from a hard stop in a heavy vehicle like a cruiser very well.

I once discussed steel vs. ceramic brakes with a mechanic that always serviced my (at the time) BMWs. He told me that while ceramics will eliminate brake dust, they need to be warmed up/hot to work effectively. Without being warmed up, they perform worse than their steel equivalents. This makes them ideal for track use, but actually worse for street use.

 

[c4xplsv]

I have akebono ceramics in my beater and for normal driving, noise, and dust, they are great. But even moderate braking from very high speeds, they aren't happy.. which makes me think they won't handle high heat from a hard stop in a heavy vehicle like a cruiser very well.

You have the yellow performance version?

 

[AnyMal]

I once discussed steel vs. ceramic brakes with a mechanic that always serviced my (at the time) BMWs. He told me that while ceramics will eliminate brake dust, they need to be warmed up/hot to work effectively. Without being warmed up, they perform worse than their steel equivalents. This makes them ideal for track use, but actually worse for street use.

Just park outside in Texas most of the year lol.
Jokes aside I’ve been told the same thing and it kind of makes sense as ceramic seems a bit slicker and probably doesn’t bond or groove the same way. Was the only option I didn’t order for my M4.

 

[c4xplsv]

I once discussed steel vs. ceramic brakes with a mechanic that always serviced my (at the time) BMWs. He told me that while ceramics will eliminate brake dust, they need to be warmed up/hot to work effectively. Without being warmed up, they perform worse than their steel equivalents. This makes them ideal for track use, but actually worse for street use.

I agree w that statement except w this version. These have copper fibers woven in so they bite like steel but have the low dust.

 

[coleAK]

Any recommendations on a manufacture of 'rotors' and 'pads' ? Are folks using 'Genuine Toyota' replacement parts? Or is there a better option?

Thanks

OEM rotors and pads all day. I tow a ~6800 lb camper more then half the time I’m driving my LX. I use OEM rotors and Stop tech pads. If I didn’t tow would use OEM pads.

 

[coleAK]

I once discussed steel vs. ceramic brakes with a mechanic that always serviced my (at the time) BMWs. He told me that while ceramics will eliminate brake dust, they need to be warmed up/hot to work effectively. Without being warmed up, they perform worse than their steel equivalents. This makes them ideal for track use, but actually worse for street use.

I had PCCBs on my 997 GT3. It was a track car and they were awesome. I Would never put carbon/ceramic on a street rig.

 

[TeCKis300]

Plus, turning rotors removes metal which acts as a heat sink.

With the low cost of new rotors there really is no use having them turned.

Agreed. Aesthetic drilled and slotted rotors do the same. It's arguable that more surface area could shed heat quicker, but only after reaching a higher peak temp. They're also stress risers for cracks and distortion to start from. Seems innocuous but that's how these things start, much like the well known radiator crack. Over time and heat cycles, it's a liability.

I had PCCBs on my 997 GT3. It was a track car and they were awesome. I Would never put carbon/ceramic on a street rig.

Yup. I don't like dual purpose brakes. Street pads for street, track pads for track. Easy enough to change. I don't have PCCBs, but actually downgraded the pads on my 911 Turbo as they needed heat in them to perform best. Which means they're wooden in response with lower friction commuting in the morning and coming off the freeway. Swapped to a sport street pad.

 

[bloc]

I once discussed steel vs. ceramic brakes with a mechanic that always serviced my (at the time) BMWs. He told me that while ceramics will eliminate brake dust, they need to be warmed up/hot to work effectively. Without being warmed up, they perform worse than their steel equivalents. This makes them ideal for track use, but actually worse for street use.

I’d assume it was highly dependent on the individual compound. But I know from experience these ceramic pads feel dodgy from very high speeds. Honestly, speeds we shouldn’t be approaching on public roads, and I’m not talking about my cruiser. But still, I want my brakes to work as well as possible in the event that I need them.

I never tried the same thing with the stock Mercedes pads, which I assume were metallic based on the incredible rate at which they dust. I just don’t believe they would spec a pad that acts like this on a car intended for autobahn use.

You have the yellow performance version?
“Euro ceramic” if I remember correctly.

 

[goldwater58]

Reviving this as opposed to starting a new thread. I have a '21 with all of 20k miles and noticed during moderate braking from about 70mph+, I get considerable pulsation felt primarily in the steering wheel and somewhat in the brake pedal. I never noticed this prior to a recent hard braking/evasive maneuver incident to avoid an accident. I'm assuming my brake lock up has contributed to some rotor warpage.

In cases like these, could re-bedding salvage the rotors? If not and I buy new rotors, do I/should I also do pads? Current pads have tons of life left on them, but if the pad surface isn't perfect, I'd hate for them to mess up new rotors (I'm purely speculating and am not sure if that even matters). Any suggestions?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Reviving this as opposed to starting a new thread. I have a '21 with all of 20k miles and noticed during moderate braking from about 70mph+, I get considerable pulsation felt primarily in the steering wheel and somewhat in the brake pedal. I never noticed this prior to a recent hard braking/evasive maneuver incident to avoid an accident. I'm assuming my brake lock up has contributed to some rotor warpage.

In cases like these, could re-bedding salvage the rotors? If not and I buy new rotors, do I/should I also do pads? Current pads have tons of life left on them, but if the pad surface isn't perfect, I'd hate for them to mess up new rotors (I'm purely speculating and am not sure if that even matters). Any suggestions?

There's most likely buildup on the face of the pads. Try re-bedding via 10 consecutive, aggressive stops from 100kph to 10kph.

I always replace pads when replacing rotors. Toyota brake parts are cheap, no reason not to do so IMO.

 

[c4xplsv]

Reviving this as opposed to starting a new thread. I have a '21 with all of 20k miles and noticed during moderate braking from about 70mph+, I get considerable pulsation felt primarily in the steering wheel and somewhat in the brake pedal. I never noticed this prior to a recent hard braking/evasive maneuver incident to avoid an accident. I'm assuming my brake lock up has contributed to some rotor warpage.

In cases like these, could re-bedding salvage the rotors? If not and I buy new rotors, do I/should I also do pads? Current pads have tons of life left on them, but if the pad surface isn't perfect, I'd hate for them to mess up new rotors (I'm purely speculating and am not sure if that even matters). Any suggestions?

Had the same experience too. Every 20k the rotors would start to shudder and Id be replacing rotors and pads. Ended up finding the Akenbono performance pads when searching for a better solution for my IS350 F Sport (squealing issue). Decided to try the same on the LC and the results were great. Probably have 40k-45k miles on the current rotors/pads with no shuddering. These things bite like semi-metallic and have nearly no brake dust.

https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Akebono&model=Performance+Pads&group=Performance+Pads&partNum=ASP1303&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Land+Cruiser&autoYear=2014&autoModClar=

 

[bloc]

Reviving this as opposed to starting a new thread. I have a '21 with all of 20k miles and noticed during moderate braking from about 70mph+, I get considerable pulsation felt primarily in the steering wheel and somewhat in the brake pedal. I never noticed this prior to a recent hard braking/evasive maneuver incident to avoid an accident. I'm assuming my brake lock up has contributed to some rotor warpage.

In cases like these, could re-bedding salvage the rotors? If not and I buy new rotors, do I/should I also do pads? Current pads have tons of life left on them, but if the pad surface isn't perfect, I'd hate for them to mess up new rotors (I'm purely speculating and am not sure if that even matters). Any suggestions?

Did you sit there stopped after the event? That is more likely to leave uneven deposits than the braking event itself. Plus ABS prevents true locking up anyway.

Bedding may help.. but be sure to give plenty of time for the brakes to cool down before coming to a complete stop or you’ll just cause the problem again right away. I get on the freeway for a good 10 minutes to let things cool before I park the vehicle.

 

[rscoleman]

I have 2016 same issue as you about same mileage. I took it to Toyota. The said rotors were not warped they did quick resurface and new factory pads. No issues since. Was told by Tech I can expect about ever 45 to 60k miles to need pads and routers some time past 100k. Rear last twice as long as front according to Tech. Note I am surprised you feel your shudder in pedal. I felt nothing in pedal just shudder in steering but figured it was front brakes. Note I did not own my 2016 for the first 14k miles I bought it used in 2018. I suspect even with towing I will get closer to 60K on current set of pads based on what I see as wear every time I rotate tires. 3/4 of every mile for me is freeway/highway very little if any breaking. Around town I drive like an old lady.

 

[goldwater58]

Did you sit there stopped after the event? That is more likely to leave uneven deposits than the braking event itself. Plus ABS prevents true locking up anyway.

Bedding may help.. but be sure to give plenty of time for the brakes to cool down before coming to a complete stop or you’ll just cause the problem again right away. I get on the freeway for a good 10 minutes to let things cool before I park the vehicle.

I never came to a complete stop when I stomped on the brakes, although the P.O.S. Dunlop Grandtreks certainly made a lot of noise with not a lot of stopping action in the process...further reinforcement to finally swap over to the Defenders. I'll try to do some bedding and see if it helps things.

To have this issue at 20k miles is rather frustrating. When your wife looks at you while braking and asks, "what's wrong with your vehicle?" is not inspiring. Especially with the LC having been overbuilt in almost every area.

 

[bloc]

I never came to a complete stop when I stomped on the brakes, although the P.O.S. Dunlop Grandtreks certainly made a lot of noise with not a lot of stopping action in the process...further reinforcement to finally swap over to the Defenders. I'll try to do some bedding and see if it helps things.

To have this issue at 20k miles is rather frustrating. When your wife looks at you while braking and asks, "what's wrong with your vehicle?" is not inspiring. Especially with the LC having been overbuilt in almost every area.

That’s good info.. but some version of that is likely what’s causing this issue. If your normal driving routes take you from freeway speeds to stop lights somewhat quickly… with the result being you sit there with foot on the brake on hot rotors, that’s a great way to get those uneven pad deposits. Then the rotor being thicker in that area increases friction, and heat, and you have a positive feedback loop.

When I come to a stop from freeway speeds I try to leave enough room in front of the truck to slowly creep forward and keep the rotors moving under the pads, even if slightly. This does seem to help, in spite of being hard on my brakes otherwise.

I chalk all of this up to a 6000lb suv having brakes that perform well while fitting into a 17” wheel. Something about the pad compound makes them prone to the deposits.. different pads may help. On the rotors themselves it’s hard to beat OEM, and they are actually cheap enough to undercut the idea of turning existing ones. I just got new OEM 2016 fronts for my brake swap for $45 each.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I never came to a complete stop when I stomped on the brakes, although the P.O.S. Dunlop Grandtreks certainly made a lot of noise with not a lot of stopping action in the process...further reinforcement to finally swap over to the Defenders. I'll try to do some bedding and see if it helps things.

To have this issue at 20k miles is rather frustrating. When your wife looks at you while braking and asks, "what's wrong with your vehicle?" is not inspiring. Especially with the LC having been overbuilt in almost every area.

Mine were warped/built up with deposits at about the same mileage. It’s a very common problem with these big, heavy vehicles.

I make a concentrated effort to do what bloc advised, and that seems to be helping.

 

[goldwater58]

Update-I did some moderately aggressive brake bedding and the brakes feel about 90% better. I'm pretty happy this worked!

 

[AnyMal]

Im still chasing a vibration and have eliminated every possibility outside of brakes.
I haven't even hit 30k on this set of OEM pads and rotors that dealer installed at this point but it started a while ago.
I didn't realize 20k miles is about what I can expect with mostly city driving...

When i bought this CPO, first drive out the dealership it shook, I had the dealer actually replace everything. Pads/rotors front rear and fluid. Drove perfect.
It came back after a dealer rotation out of the blue 10k miles ago and hasn't stopped getting worse albeit intermittently.
Tires have been rotated since, balanced, warrantied one, had two alignments and now UCAs with perfect specs aligned.
I blamed everything but the "new" brakes. Kind of shocking to be honest, specially with my "improved" brakes. Cant imagine what the small ones are like.

Seems like this is brake pads indeed since I cant imagine a rotor being to blame here.
What is most shocking to me is how much shaking it can induce with no brake application from being that out of balance from deposits alone.
At 70MPH or above, it's just shaking all the time and gets super rowdy when braking under load.

I dont want to deal with this anymore. Im doing a full brake job soon but I really need a pad recommendation.
Any consensus or other recommendations? Akebono vs TRD? I dont really care too much about dust.
Its noise and deposits that are more my concern.

EDIT: Forgot to mention very uneven pad wear up front. Im not sure these were ever installed properly. Like everything else, ill rip it apart myself and do it right...

 

[OregonLC]

Even with City, 20k is pretty short for pads. With my driving style at least.

How are the calipers? Any chance you've got a stuck piston that's causing drag? Do inboard/outboard pads have the same rate of wear?

That you have vibration prior to braking that gets amplified when brakes are applied point to something other than brakes. Wheel bearings, bent wheel, worn suspension components, tie rod ends... its a hard process of elimination for sure.

 

[c4xplsv]

Im still chasing a vibration and have eliminated every possibility outside of brakes.
I haven't even hit 30k on this set of OEM pads and rotors that dealer installed at this point but it started a while ago.
I didn't realize 20k miles is about what I can expect with mostly city driving...

When i bought this CPO, first drive out the dealership it shook, I had the dealer actually replace everything. Pads/rotors front rear and fluid. Drove perfect.
It came back after a dealer rotation out of the blue 10k miles ago and hasn't stopped getting worse albeit intermittently.
Tires have been rotated since, balanced, warrantied one, had two alignments and now UCAs with perfect specs aligned.
I blamed everything but the "new" brakes. Kind of shocking to be honest, specially with my "improved" brakes. Cant imagine what the small ones are like.

Seems like this is brake pads indeed since I cant imagine a rotor being to blame here.
What is most shocking to me is how much shaking it can induce with no brake application from being that out of balance from deposits alone.
At 70MPH or above, it's just shaking all the time and gets super rowdy when braking under load.

I dont want to deal with this anymore. Im doing a full brake job soon but I really need a pad recommendation.
Any consensus or other recommendations? Akebono vs TRD? I dont really care too much about dust.
Its noise and deposits that are more my concern.

EDIT: Forgot to mention very uneven pad wear up front. Im not sure these were ever installed properly. Like everything else, ill rip it apart myself and do it right...

The Akenbono pads solved the shuddering for me - not a big fan of Toyota pads at this point. Similar issue with my Lexus is what brought me to that brand. Just happened to fix the shuddering issue on the LC as well.