Events/Trails 2008 USA Land Cruiser Pics and Test Drive Impressions

[dclee]

I didn't realize that every 80 and 100 here in the US is a "high revving runaway train" on the trails.

...OK, one last try... I promise... If SHOTTSUZJ100 won't believe me, maybe he'll believe someone else...

This is from a site in Oz called "4WD Encounter Australia" but I thought it offered a good, simple explanation of this concept:

http://www.pps.net.au/4wdencounter/articles/dieselvspetrol.html

"Another distinct advantage of the diesel engine is its engine braking. The design of the diesel engine means that it sucks in air unrestricted and the amount of diesel fuel injected determines how much power the engine makes. A petrol engine requires a constant fuel/air ratio so the amount of air drawn in by the engine is regulated by an inlet buterfly in ratio to the fuel being used. What this means is that at idle, a diesel engine still draws in a large amount of air (RPM x engine capacity) while a petrol has the butterfly almost closed and there is very little air being drawn in.

When using engine compression for downhill braking and factoring in the compression ratio of 20:1 for a diesel and only 9:1 for a petrol, the diesel engine offers significantly greater resistance to an increase in engine RPM. The diesel engine offers significant resistance as large quantities of air are still being drawn in through the unrestricted air intake and being compressed to 20:1. The petrol engine has the air intake butterfly closed during downhill braking and so only minimal quantities of air is being drawn in and then, its only being compressed to 9:1. This is why a petrol engine tends to "run away" compared to a diesel."

 

[FirstToy]

another great thing about diesel engines- much, much longer lifespan than petrol engines.

a good choice for a suv, truck - heavy payload (armor, expedition payload) and owners that will have long-term ownership. diesels are attractive for many reasons. The turbodiesels+low sulfer= good mpgs, 2x lifespan, torque monster that befits a big suv. Tied with the LandCruiser's build quality, it should last forever!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

 

[b56tc]

odd to have this thread hijack re: diesels.
but the reality is:
I've got a 7700 lb truck (Dodge) with a 5.9 Cummins that moves that 4 tons regularly at 20 mpg. And it is 325hp/600+ torque, stock. With aircleaner, exhaust, intake manifold, and chip (about $2500) I can add an easy 100+ hp before adding injectors, higher capacity turbo, which can then add another 100+ hp, available any time I want to burn all 4 due to chip-on-the-fly. And STILL get 20 mpg if I don't burn them every start, chip down, and drive like usual.

Turbocharged diesel engines are nothing short of an amazing efficient and versatile heat pump.

sorry, hijack over

 

[TXLX470]

"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics....Even if you win, you are still retarded" !!!

Are you saying Shotts is retarded??? I had no idea...this explains his stupid arguments

 

[lexusrottie]

Great brochure

This morning I drop by the Toyota of Melbourne for a little spin of the new LC, Salsa Red with Grey interior
Once I climb aboard it was a lot taller than my previous LC, closing the front door heard a thump and felt air tight.
Like other have said, it looks better up close.
I really enjoy the driving it has tremendous acceleration, I thought I would get a headache looking at the gauges but is not true, does not feel obtrusive.
The steering wheels is a bit fatter. The front seat cushion was not very comfortable it was hard.
While looking at the TLC brochure I thought I was reading the National Geographic
is full of beautiful outdoors pictures and plethora of wild animals.
I would have preferred the other way around.

 

[pagemaster]

While looking at the TLC brochure I thought I was reading the National Geographic
is full of beautiful outdoors pictures and plethora of wild animals.
.

A plethora.....only those who read the NG would use a word like this.

 

[dtt255]

This morning I drop by the Toyota of Melbourne for a little spin of the new LC, Salsa Red with Grey interior
Once I climb aboard it was a lot taller than my previous LC, closing the front door heard a thump and felt air tight.
Like other have said, it looks better up close.
I really enjoy the driving it has tremendous acceleration, I thought I would get a headache looking at the gauges but is not true, does not feel obtrusive.
The steering wheels is a bit fatter. The front seat cushion was not very comfortable it was hard.
While looking at the TLC brochure I thought I was reading the National Geographic
is full of beautiful outdoors pictures and plethora of wild animals.
I would have preferred the other way around.

I have to agree about the brochure. I believe it has about 60 pages about the legacy of the LC and about 8 pages on the actual new model.

I find the ride to be sensitive yet not hard. Maybe I say that because the other truck I drive is a Yukon

 

[Thermodyn]

I have to agree about the brochure. I believe it has about 60 pages about the legacy of the LC and about 8 pages on the actual new model.

Ha!

Actually, that's exactly what I like about it!

 

[dtt255]

Ha!

Actually, that's exactly what I like about it!

Well it is like a sequel that makes NO sense...if you don't know what came before it.

Kinda of like watching rocky 4 and wondering what the big deal was about apollo dying. No reference point.


Unless you do some research....like some of us did.

 

[Dougal]

diesals are making a comeback, but i wonder how the politics will play out. Lots of Money got dumped into ethanol, and with the American Gas companies making 10-11 billion in profit, I wonder if they will allow the diesal pumps to get added. Right now, there are very few Diesal pumps compared to gas.

On the ethanol front, the perfect engine isn't far away.
Scania make a city bus which runs ethanol in a compression ignition (aka diesel) engine. It runs 28:1 static compression plus whatever boost the turbo feeds it.
Due to the extremely high compression ratio (necessary to combust ethanol without spark) the efficiency is comparable to or even higher than their same size diesel fuelled engine. 45-50% thermal efficiency.

So it appears no matter what your fuel (diesel, bio-diesel, veggie oil, ethanol etc) there is a diesel engine in your future.
Environmental regulations will eventually spell the end of the petrol (gas) engine. It's efficiency is truely appalling.

At present only my 4wd is diesel, the other car I own is petrol. When it is replaced it'll be replaced by a diesel, possibly VW and not for towing 10,000-15,000lb.

 

[pagemaster]

[Environmental regulations will eventually spell the end of the petrol (gas) engine. It's efficiency is truely appalling.

That is VERY unlikely to happen.

 

[Dougal]

That is VERY unlikely to happen.

Based on what? Your love of petrol engines?

Tightening limits on CO2 emissions will give manufacturers no other option. It'll take time, but it will happen.

 

[pagemaster]

Based on what? Your love of petrol engines?

Tightening limits on CO2 emissions will give manufacturers no other option. It'll take time, but it will happen.

Both diesel and petrol have their plus and minus. That 200 series diesel in New Zealand would cost about $95000 US whereas the petrol comes in at $73000 US both are top line models. This is based on currency conversion. A diesel LC in America would be very tough to justify at that cost compared to the 5.7 200 series truck.

As for small cars, yes if there is no difference in cost then diesel will likely win out, however the performance of the diesel must be on par with the gas. As for large trucks, diesel is already the winner.

with a sedan I can't see a 3.5 v6 diesel being at par with a 3.5 v6 petrol (which almost all manufactuers are have as their bread a butter sedan engine) when it comes to power, efficiency, COST ($$$) and reliability.

I think the Camry has a v6 with 270hp, excellent performance and stunning gas mileage at around 7.0 litres/100 hwy.

 

[Dougal]

Both diesel and petrol have their plus and minus. That 200 series diesel in New Zealand would cost about $95000 US whereas the petrol comes in at $73000 US. This is based on currency conversion. A diesel LC in America would be very tough to justify at that cost compared to the 5.7 200 series truck.

As for small cars, yes if there is no difference in cost then diesel will likely win out, however the performance of the diesel must be on par with the gas. As for large trucks, diesel is already the winner.

with a sedan I can't see a 3.5 v6 diesel being at par with a 3.5 v6 petrol (which almost all manufactuers are have as their bread a butter sedan engine) when it comes to power, efficiency, COST ($$$) and reliability.

I think the Camry has a v6 with 270hp, excellent performance and stunning gas mileage at around 7.0 litres/100 hwy.

Comparing the prices across countries never works. For example when holden exported their Monaro as a Pontiac GTO it sold in the US for far less than where it was built (Australia). Wait until the lexus is released then comparing prices will probably be the only option.

Troll Mercedes, BMW and Audi/VW websites and you'll see the diesels are a long way ahead on torque, fuel economy and often the 0-100km/h sprint when compared to similar displacement petrol engines. Sometimes they win on outright power too.
BMW's 335D is one I'd like to own, it's been mentioned already in this thread.
210kw, 580Nm, 6.2s 0-100km/h at 3L displacement and

Funnily enough, there doesn't appear to be camry offered in the european markets, so that's not a good one to compare. The Avensis is their diesel flagship and it's not a US model.
The Honda Accord Euro is big on diesel, even has a diesel sport model. But that's not a model sold in the US either.

The Yaris is one car we can compare. In the uk it's 62.8mpg for the diesel, 48mpg for the 1.3 petrol and 52mpg for th 1.0L petrol.

BTW EPA on a 3.5L 2007 camry is 22/31. Averages around 9l/100km.

 

[pagemaster]

Comparing the prices across countries never works. For example when holden exported their Monaro as a Pontiac GTO it sold in the US for far less than where it was built (Australia). Wait until the lexus is released then comparing prices will probably be the only option.

Troll Mercedes, BMW and Audi/VW websites and you'll see the diesels are a long way ahead on torque, fuel economy and often the 0-100km/h sprint when compared to similar displacement petrol engines. Sometimes they win on outright power too.
BMW's 335D is one I'd like to own, it's been mentioned already in this thread.
210kw, 580Nm, 6.2s 0-100km/h at 3L displacement and

Funnily enough, there doesn't appear to be camry offered in the european markets, so that's not a good one to compare. The Avensis is their diesel flagship and it's not a US model.
The Honda Accord Euro is big on diesel, even has a diesel sport model. But that's not a model sold in the US either.

The Yaris is one car we can compare. In the uk it's 62.8mpg for the diesel, 48mpg for the 1.3 petrol and 52mpg for th 1.0L petrol.

BTW EPA on a 3.5L 2007 camry is 22/31. Averages around 9l/100km.

Read what I said again. I practically agree with all of this BUT you fail to mention the cost difference. I would like to see the price difference between the BMW diesel and similar gas engine. I bet the gas is a cheaper engine which is why gas engines are not going away anytime soon.

Comparing the 200 series diesel to US is prices is reasonable as the 4.7 petrol in NZ will come out to about the same as a 200 series 5.7 in america.

Below is a quote about the performance of the Toyota Avensis diesel in Europe

0-litre powerplant delivers a decent slug of torque 300Nm to be precise - and performance is reasonable, the Avensis hitting 60mph in 10.3 seconds before running on to a top speed of 124mph. The 2.2-litre D-4D is more advanced as well as being more powerful.

It pumps out 310Nm in 150 guise, delivers a 9.3s 0-60mph time and can hit a top speed of 130mph. Its a second generation common-rail diesel which means improvements have been made to the combustion process which produce greater refinement and efficiency even than the first generation common-rail units. Fuel economy for this larger powerplant is almost identical to that of the 2.

Yes the fuel economy is impressive but the power and performance is pathetic.

 

[Dougal]

Read what I said again. I practically agree with all of this BUT you fail to mention the cost difference. I would like to see the price difference between the BMW diesel and similar gas engine. I bet the gas is a cheaper engine which is why gas engines are not going away anytime soon.

BMW price difference (UK)
335i SE(petrol) = 31,550 pounds
335d SE (diesel) = 33,610 pounds

European states are beginning to mandate CO2 emissions in g/km. Price is not going to be a factor. It's similar to the EPA's CAFE but much tighter.

Comparing the 200 series diesel to US is prices is reasonable as the 4.7 petrol in NZ will come out to about the same as a 200 series 5.7 in america.

I still don't understand how you think such a comparison is valid. $NZ/$US exhange rate has swung over 20% recently as well as the vehicles having different spec and being built with different parts. Waiting until a similar spec lexus is available in NZ or Aus and comparing that to the diesel is the only realistic way.

Here a TDV8 rangerover is $20k cheaper than a supercharged V8 rangerover but the spec is different.
Rangerover sport TDV6 is the same price as the 4.4 V8 sport.
Discovery series 3 (LR3) is same price TDV6 and 4.4 V8 petrol.

The Avensis isn't a sports car. It's a family wagon. Petrol engine option is a 2L.

 

[pagemaster]

BMW price difference (UK)
335i SE(petrol) = 31,550 pounds
335d SE (diesel) = 33,610 pounds

European states are beginning to mandate CO2 emissions in g/km. Price is not going to be a factor. It's similar to the EPA's CAFE but much tighter.


.

The Avensis isn't a sports car. It's a family wagon. Petrol engine option is a 2L.

Nice find however read the technical specs close. The petrol 335 peaks its torque at 1300rpm while the diesel is actually higher around 1750. And for the record, the diesel needs to rev to 4400rpm to achieve its peak hp rating. That is pretty high.

Yes the petrol revs even higher but combined there is a 2.4 l/100km benefit to the diesel but the performance is better in the petrol but not by a substantial margin, but enough. What is interesting is that the diesel cost $4000 US more than the petrol to gain 2.4 l/100km than the a petrol.

What is even better is comparing a 330 petrol to 330 diesel. The 330 petrol achieves its peak hp at 6700rpm while the diesel is a 4000rpm ...Yet the diesel is 1.1 l/100km more fuel effient than the petrol...the diesel doesnt look as effecient now does it?

 

[lexusrottie]

A plethora.....only those who read the NG would use a word like this.

You are right, I am an avid reader of many periodicals.

 

[pagemaster]

You are right, I am an avid reader of many periodicals.

Nice!