That's been going on forever. A Mercedes blows away a Lexus in terms of luxury and features.
But which one is still on the road 20+ years later, and how much money was spent on maintenance and repairs in the process?
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That's been going on forever. A Mercedes blows away a Lexus in terms of luxury and features.
But which one is still on the road 20+ years later, and how much money was spent on maintenance and repairs in the process?
Yes, you're making my point, how are these other manufacturers able to continue to do that while also meeting stricter CAFE standards?
Also, we're talking about current models and their mpg and emissions, I doubt any 250 or GX owners would be interested in betting on these vehicles making it over 400k miles and 23+ years like my 100 series anyways.
So be it. Other religions would refer to it as blasphemy. Regardless, they will be just fine and will sell a tons of them.
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- #224
Sure but we're getting off in a rabbit hole. Apples to apples, 2 manufactures building disposable cars now, both meeting cafe standards, same price range, one gets much higher grade materials than the other is what's the head scratcher.
I know you own both, so wouldn't like to contradict your statement, and maybe later I will get the 250 because there is nothing else to get and not because IT is THE one to get (different reasons although easily confused), so apologies in advance, but after three test drives, the 250 fails to make me feel that LC feeling you are talking about, and it kills me because I WANT it to impress me and make me buy one, yet it doesn't / hasn't, sadly. Also part of the struggle is that lack of this LC feeling in a $75000 vehicle, that is a lot of cash that one can buy in another brand and get that feeling. I am a Toyota fanboi at core, and really DONT want to buy any other brand, but it is becoming more and more difficult. I seek refugee in both my 200 and 80 for now.... 
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- #227
Sure, but the underlying build quality of the fasteners used to secure everything tightly in the cabin is still there, which is the important piece. Most other makes have parts break off and do not provide that long term durability aspect.
Our 250 is still drum tight in the cabin with no squeaks or rattles. Hell, the 200 (2016) has more rattles in the cold than the 250, but it is 8 years old now, so I’ll give it that.
But 1 is still built to last longer and be more reliable than the other. So nothing's really changed.
Unless you are saying that all new vehicles meeting CAFE standard are just doomed to be equally unreliable and disposable. In which case, why buy the Lexus?
Do we have any data for how long and reliable the GX was built to be?
I thought we were all just nodding along that the 250/GX is not built like a 100 or 200?
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- #230
So for me, turning off practically all of the driving tech nannies and putting the car in tow haul mode fixes most of the aggravating things about the driving experience. The car feels fairly old school once you do that.I know you own both, so wouldn't like to contradict your statement, and maybe later I will get the 250 because there is nothing else to get and not because IT is THE one to get (different reasons although easily confused), so apologies in advance, but after three test drives, the 250 fails to make me feel that LC feeling you are talking about, and it kills me because I WANT it to impress me and make me buy one, yet it doesn't / hasn't, sadly. Also part of the struggle is that lack of this LC feeling in a $75000 vehicle, that is a lot of cash that one can buy in another brand and get that feeling. I am a Toyota fanboi at core, and really DONT want to buy any other brand, but it is becoming more and more difficult. I seek refugee in both my 200 and 80 for now....
When you compare the price tag against most unibody CUV’s on the market, the 250 is actually a fairly decent value proposition for a BOF rig. No, it’s not 200 series of luxury, but you can tell Toyota did their homework where it matters. I can’t say the same about most of Toyota’s offerings nowadays.
Agreed, nominally more expensive than a 3-row crossover, and it's a much more capable rig as it can actually wheel and tow.
How about not wanting to give Toyota my money just to send a message that I don't like where they're heading. They've made clowns of themselves repeatedly the last few years. It doesn't really seem like this is the same Toyota that made bulletproof vehicles in the 90s/early 00s.
They better be careful, I heard ISIS is shopping around for their next technical vehicle of choice.
They better be careful, I heard ISIS is shopping around for their next technical vehicle of choice.
The comparison isn't with the 100 or 200. It's with any new (2024+) vehicle from any other manufacturer also built to the same CAFE standards.
It's one thing to argue that CAFE regulations may bring down reliability and longevity across the board.
But it's another thing to argue that because of these regulations all manufacturers vehicles will now be equally unreliable and a 2024+ Lexus isn't going to last longer or be more reliable than a 2024+ Mercedes / Audi / BMW / Land Rover.
Historically Lexus has always been behind the curve of their rivals in terms of luxury, tech, and power train. However, they still used very nice materials and the high level of build quality was apparent throughout the line up. They are still behind the curve today with most of their "new" tech and features being things we have seen in other makes for the last 5+ years. Where things have gotten shaky however is the build quality is now inconsistent across models and some of the new materials that are being used in their latest design language just miss the mark when it comes to feeling luxurious. The materials are nice, they aren't 2000's GM sh!tbox grade but they feel more like upper trim Toyota bits than Lexus luxury. I.E. things you would find in a fully loaded Highlander, Camry, or LC250. I honestly feel like some of the Toyota variants of these models have ended up with nicer interiors and build quality. So is Toyota punching up in that department or has Lexus fallen down a peg?
It's still too early to call. Many peoples complaints on the new stuff are valid but I'm also willing to chalk that up to first model year woes. Point scored for those folks who say it's best to wait a couple years or more before picking up a clean sheet, redesigned car or truck.
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To be honest, we should feel lucky that Toyota was able to hang on to their UR engines and antiquated 6-speed automatics in the LC/GX/Tundra until 2021-2023. Outside of 2500 and up trucks, the domestics killed off their comparable drivetrain offerings nearly a decade ago.
A 300 would have cost much more than the 70k you're thinking.
A base Land Cruiser in 2020 is $107k in today's dollars.
.Bro if you have to drive it 4 times to convince yourself I don't think that's the truck for you.
You missed the point of my argument the first time I made it and you're still missing it. YOU brought up vehicles lasting 20+ years, which you could only be talking about the 100 series or older, maybe predicting the lifespan of the 200s too? Otherwise you're claiming you believe the 250 was built for a 20+ year life?
At no point in my original argument did I bring up or make any claims or predictions about longevity or reliability of new cars. That was you, and others.
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