200 Vs. 250 FE - Owners Perspective (2 Viewers)

[MRego]

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Review: It’s Just Not the Same

Unless you’re talking about the Lexus GX, in which case it is the same. Wait, no, it’s worse.

www.thedrive.com

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Review: It’s Just Not the Same. Unless you’re talking about the Lexus GX, in which case it is the same. Wait, no, it’s worse.

Its like they read forums....?

Man, thanks for sharing the article. I have yet to read a more accurate description for the Prado.

"...And besides that, I would like the new Land Cruiser more if it didn’t pretend to replace the old V8-powered 200 Series. To me, that’s almost offensive—not because the last Land Cruiser was the best rig ever (though it’s definitely good), but because you can’t slash the number of cylinders in half, toss in a battery and electric motor, cheapen everything else, then act like it’s the same thing. It’s not. I don’t want it, and unless I’m just missing something, I don’t know why you would either..."

It is just a perfect description. Like he read my mind.

 

[Patassa]

I think it is part of making the vehicle more cost efficient and lighter, again for efficiency. And thats why we don't have this heft of the car any more. I wanted to gift me a LC300 here , aka LX600, and I left disappointed both times I test drove it. Leaving alone the fact that I feel the panels and controls seem like an after thought, the car finish did not feel a $110000 car. I haven't tried a Range Rover but the Defender is like your comment, feels "cheap" for a car that price, the engine was phenomenal though. I don't think Lexus will change, this is the ways now ...

Agree with this take. I have very little doubt that strength to weight ratios are dominating even interior material choices now. My wife's brand new 68k Lexus TX feels like a cheap toyota inside, gray and black plastic everywhere, it has all sorts of rattles at 10k miles, and it's the "luxury" trim. It's frustrating that this is what we're getting for our money now. Used to be when you bought a Lexus, you were wrapped in premium or even luxurious materials and it really felt like something different, something better, something well put together. Those days seem to be over. If they can shave 100lbs? deleting the wood, using fake leather, gray and black plastics, less panel anchors it seems like they're going to do it to try and meet mpg or emissions numbers.

 

[OGBeno]

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Review: It’s Just Not the Same

Unless you’re talking about the Lexus GX, in which case it is the same. Wait, no, it’s worse.

www.thedrive.com

2024 Toyota Land Cruiser Review: It’s Just Not the Same. Unless you’re talking about the Lexus GX, in which case it is the same. Wait, no, it’s worse.

Its like they read forums....?

Those writers are **definitely** lurking forums and gleaning/stealing information.

 

[Zill]

Those writers are **definitely** lurking forums and gleaning/stealing information.

Hah, it’s a very biased review, that’s for sure.

The whole review is a hit piece without any in-depth thought about looking at the pros of the vehicle. It’s like it was written by somebody who read the forum posts before the 250 even hit the showroom floor.

 

[Phillyd2]

Hah, it’s a very biased review, that’s for sure.

The whole review is a hit piece without any in-depth thought about looking at the pros of the vehicle. It’s like it was written by somebody who read the forum posts before the 250 even hit the showroom floor.

More or less biased than those who parrot Toyota marketing’s approved talking points and who have a vested (emotional, financial, etc.) interest in them?

 

[Rednexus]

Agree with this take. I have very little doubt that strength to weight ratios are dominating even interior material choices now. My wife's brand new 68k Lexus TX feels like a cheap toyota inside, gray and black plastic everywhere, it has all sorts of rattles at 10k miles, and it's the "luxury" trim. It makes me angry that this is what we're getting for our money now. Used to be when you bought a Lexus, you were wrapped in premium or even luxurious materials and it really felt like something different, something better, something well put together. Those days seem to be over. If they can shave 100lbs? deleting the wood, using fake leather, gray and black plastics, less panel anchors it seems like they're going to do it to try and meet mpg or emissions numbers.

It's all about CAFE fuel economy, side crash standards, rollover standards, etc. Every 0.1 mpg counts. Vehicle design is highly regulated and getting more so. Toyota - and everyone else - is now forced into making expensive vehicles that people don't want. We can thank these rules for a host of modern annoyances like 0W16 oil, small-displacement turbo engines that aren't reliable, ugly vertical front-end styling, high beltlines....and probably a lot of other things I'm not thinking of. We can certainly be mad at Toyota, but at the end of they day they are just following the rules and having to jump though tons of engineering hoops and make other compromises and sacrifices along the way.

I do have to say that our Highlander (same platform) has an excellent build quality with zero squeaks/rattles/etc. The overall assembly is just as good as my Tahara-built 120, but the materials are indeed a bit cheaper (after all it's a Toyota, not a Lexus). So I'm surprised yours has squeaks and rattles.

 

[Zill]

More or less biased than those who parrot Toyota marketing’s approved talking points and who have a vested (emotional, financial, etc.) interest in them?

I understand the vehicle has drawbacks against the 200, but also on a comparative basis, it’s 30-40% less expensive than a brand new 200 series when adjusted for inflation. Of course you’re going to have to cut some material costs here and there.

I still stand by the 250 being a great rig and nearing 10k miles on ours with no regrets at all.

 

[987R]

I understand the vehicle has drawbacks against the 200, but also on a comparative basis, it’s 30-40% less expensive than a brand new 200 series when adjusted for inflation. Of course you’re going to have to cut some material costs here and there.

I still stand by the 250 being a great rig and nearing 10k miles on ours with no regrets at all.

Hardly anyone mentions this. The LC200 wasn't selling well. Most people with $100k to spend on an SUV want the flash and badge recognition of a Range Rover or Mercedes. Toyota had to change up the formula if they wanted to sell Land Cruisers.

 

[MRego]

Hardly anyone mentions this. The LC200 wasn't selling well. Most people with $100k to spend on an SUV want the flash and badge recognition of a Range Rover or Mercedes. Toyota had to change up the formula if they wanted to sell Land Cruisers.

True, but Toyota was the first one to compare the 250 Prado with the 200 when advertised it as the "new land cruiser" stateside. Then, every "unbiased" car reviewer/auto-journalist drank Toyota's kool-aid and became not-so-unbiased anymore to keep in Toyota's good graces. That is why (IMO) the article is refreshingly honest and not a hit piece. It does list numerous good things about the 250, but it had to address the elephant in the room - i.e. comparison with the 200.

 

[VWEeplusa]

All I know is I have a 2015 200 and a 2024 GX550 Overtrail+ and:

1. I don't compare the two. Different animals. I don't care what Toyota calls the 250, we all knew going into this it wasn't the Land Cruiser. Otherwise we would have already bought the LX600.
2. I dig the 200. I dig the GX550. I also dig my Rivian R1S Quad. They each have pros, cons, and things I love and things that irritate the life out of me.
3. I put a deposit down on a 250 as well, but the closer it got, the more glaringly deficient it was FOR ME and my priorities, so I pulled the deposit and have dismissed the 250 as something I'm just not interested in at that price point.
4. Let's remember the 200 has had fake wood trim and certain plastic aspects to the interior for 25 years now, even at that price point. Why folks are focused on that now as a negative feels more like grasping than real concern.
5. I've never understood the love of leather seats amongst the Cruiser crowd. Totally counter intuitive to how most on this forum want to view and use their 'rigs.' I hate their wear and how much work I have to do to keep them looking good, and the LC has always looked worse inside than it needed to because the leather is so hard to take care of. I much prefer the interiors with vegan leather, semi-aniline, etc that may not be a real cow, but surely seems to look better longer.
6. I love the rhino proof solidity and overbuilt mechanical and structural nature of the 200. BUT, I knew that was a dying attribute unless I wanted an LX600. I'll probably keep the 200 around forever because of that.
7. Two reasons I passed on the LX600......PRICE and although I love the interior and feel totally securely cocooned inside it, its just not an attractive vehicle on the exterior and even w the new Overtrail coming for 2025, it looks goofy trying to be a half-assed off roader.
8. So far, I accept the GX500, its fit and finish, its difference in solidity, etc for what it is and love the thing. I don't expect it to be an extension of the 200.
9. I get the same level of satisfaction driving the 200 as I do the GX550, just in very different ways. And I like it.

PS.....the seat massagers in the GX are still a joke. Whoever thought being pushed all over by creepy baby fingers while driving was something to market should have their head examined.

 

[W4632018]

Hardly anyone mentions this. The LC200 wasn't selling well. Most people with $100k to spend on an SUV want the flash and badge recognition of a Range Rover or Mercedes. Toyota had to change up the formula if they wanted to sell Land Cruisers.

LC200 didn’t sell well because IMO Toyota didn’t want it to sell well. They sold the most extremely expensive blinged out 200 in the USA. There was almost no price difference with the LX570 because it literally had everything that car had. You know it’s a strange business decision to sell a Toyota that stands toe to toe with Lexus’s (the luxury brand) flagship and costs exactly the same. How was this not a decision designed NOT to fail. Every other country got a variety of specs, and in some middle eastern countries you could get into a 200 series for less than 50K USD! The 250 has its place, but it is by design not a replacement for the 200. Maybe I don’t have a head for business as the suits do in Toyota, but why can’t the USA just have the option to buy a Toyota 300 and 250 at the same time. I don’t want to buy an ugly ass Lexus 600.

 

[hoot504]

LC200 didn’t sell well because IMO Toyota didn’t want it to sell well. They sold the most extremely expensive blinged out 200 in the USA. There was almost no price difference with the LX570 because it literally had everything that car had. You know it’s a strange business decision to sell a Toyota that stands toe to toe with Lexus’s (the luxury brand) flagship and costs exactly the same. How was this not a decision designed NOT to fail. Every other country got a variety of specs, and in some middle eastern countries you could get into a 200 series for less than 50K USD! The 250 has its place, but it is by design not a replacement for the 200. Maybe I don’t have a head for business as the suits do in Toyota, but why can’t the USA just have the option to buy a Toyota 300 and 250 at the same time. I don’t want to buy an ugly ass Lexus 600.

Didn't want to cannibalize 4runner sales. Maybe the 250 is a stop-gap until the new 4runner is ready for primetime, because if the gist of what I know is correct no one will be buying these 250s once the 4R hits stateside.

 

[hoser]

@W4632018 For the early 200's, the price difference between base model LC and LX was over $10k. The LC had an upgrade package for $7k. Not sure how many were sold bare bones though (w/o upgrade package). Later, they just sold the LC as fully loaded. For those in the US who wanted a full sized, non-luxury SUV, they offered us the Sequoia.

 

[TWILLY]

Every other country got a variety of specs, and in some middle eastern countries you could get into a 200 series for less than 50K USD! The 250 has its place, but it is by design not a replacement for the 200. Maybe I don’t have a head for business as the suits do in Toyota, but why can’t the USA just have the option to buy a Toyota 300 and 250 at the same time. I don’t want to buy an ugly ass Lexus 600.

Force-feeding needless luxury to the US Land Cruiser market has been Toyota's business model for decades. In the US, paying for needless luxury is the price of admission to the Land Cruiser wagon.

This began, I would argue, mid-way through the 80 series. I grew up with Land Cruisers; the shift to more bling was, at that point in time, a stark departure.

It's ironic to now read people complaining about a retreat to a more original utilitarian spec, at least with the 1958. Setting aside its low capacities, that is, in my opinion, its saving grace.

 

[Phillyd2]

True, but Toyota was the first one to compare the 250 Prado with the 200 when advertised it as the "new land cruiser" stateside. Then, every "unbiased" car reviewer/auto-journalist drank Toyota's kool-aid and became not-so-unbiased anymore to keep in Toyota's good graces. That is why (IMO) the article is refreshingly honest and not a hit piece. It does list numerous good things about the 250, but it had to address the elephant in the room - i.e. comparison with the 200.

Exactly right. They could have decided to end the LC in North America and bring the 300 here but instead they decided to bring another 4Runner trim level and then rebrand it as a LC to whore* out the prestigious name.

*no, not an accidental use of the term.

 

[Noctilucent]

Exactly right. They could have decided to end the LC in North America and bring the 300 here but instead they decided to bring another 4Runner trim level and then rebrand it as a LC to whore* out the prestigious name.

*no, not an accidental use of the term.

Toyota did bring back a true Land Cruiser to North America, and it’s the 250 Series, which is the Light Duty version of the lineup. Just because it’s not a Station Wagon like the 200 Series doesn’t mean it’s not ''The Land Cruiser.'' 70s, /150/250 200/300 etc They're all ''The Land Cruiser''.

 

[Patassa]

It's all about CAFE fuel economy, side crash standards, rollover standards, etc. Every 0.1 mpg counts. Vehicle design is highly regulated and getting more so. Toyota - and everyone else - is now forced into making expensive vehicles that people don't want. We can thank these rules for a host of modern annoyances like 0W16 oil, small-displacement turbo engines that aren't reliable, ugly vertical front-end styling, high beltlines....and probably a lot of other things I'm not thinking of. We can certainly be mad at Toyota, but at the end of they day they are just following the rules and having to jump though tons of engineering hoops and make other compromises and sacrifices along the way.

I do have to say that our Highlander (same platform) has an excellent build quality with zero squeaks/rattles/etc. The overall assembly is just as good as my Tahara-built 120, but the materials are indeed a bit cheaper (after all it's a Toyota, not a Lexus). So I'm surprised yours has squeaks and rattles.

Yep I get it on the CAFE standards but what I don't understand is how other car makers can provide more luxury and more features for the same price or cheaper than Lexus seems to be doing right now. It feels like Toyota is trying to win the trophy for exceeding the standard or something. I'm baffled at the TX build quality also, some of it might be 1st year problems, but it seems like panel clips fit/finish shouldn't be a first year problem, maybe it's assembly in the US plant, no idea. I'll start spamming Elon and Vivek on Twitter about rolling back these insane CAFE standards anyways.

 

[Phillyd2]

Toyota did bring back a true Land Cruiser to North America, and it’s the 250 Series, which is the Light Duty version of the lineup. Just because it’s not a Station Wagon like the 200 Series doesn’t mean it’s not ''The Land Cruiser.'' 70s, /150/250 200/300 etc They're all ''The Land Cruiser''.

Yes, we all had their marketing materials available from the start and there has been shortage of fanboy influencers.

 

[Noctilucent]

Exactly right. They could have decided to end the LC in North America and bring the 300 here but instead they decided to bring another 4Runner trim level and then rebrand it as a LC to whore* out the prestigious name.

*no, not an accidental use of the term.

Claiming Toyota is 'whoring' out the Land Cruiser name is not only inaccurate but also disrespectful. The 250 Series is a legitimate true Land Cruiser. What’s being misrepresented here is a baseless opinion masquerading as fact.

 

[Zill]

To me, what makes a Land Cruiser a Land Cruiser is how they drive. Nothing else on the road feels like them, and the 250 still has that feeling.

Also, the 4Runner is not a 250 replacement since most of the trims don’t have full time 4WD. I believe it’s exclusive to the limited trim on the 6th gen 4Runner, but they whacked the 4Runner limited with the ugly stick again.