1F and Taurus Fan

[GarnerFJ40]

Alright, I don't start too many threads outside the club area. I've looked in the FAQ's and don't see what I need.

Who's running a taurus fan with an 1F? I've seen tons of posts with SBC's but none with a 1f. I think I've got about 3" of clearance between the rad. and the WP pulley. Shroud and motor assbly. of the taurus is around 4+". Have I got the earlier model taurus one? Is the correct one that much slimmer?

 

[mrjay2u]

Boy. I am glad you started this thread, I was going to ask the same question.

Alright, I don't start too many threads outside the club area. I've looked in the FAQ's and don't see what I need.

Who's running a taurus fan with an 1F? I've seen tons of posts with SBC's but none with a 1f. I think I've got about 3" of clearance between the rad. and the WP pulley. Shroud and motor assbly. of the taurus is around 4+". Have I got the earlier model taurus one? Is the correct one that much slimmer?

 

[joeyg1973]

I haven't heard of anybody trying this on a 1f... I think the 1f had a longer water pump. It clears by a hair with my 2f. Even then I am pretty sure I am going to either modify the fan shroud to get it closer to the radiator or cut down the shaft that protrudes out from the pulley flange on the pump. You can also move the radiator forward about 1/2" with a little mod to the radiator mount frame.

 

[GarnerFJ40]

Yeah, I'm not even sure by moving the radiator support and shaving the taurus shroud am I going to get enough clearance to safely put it in. I'll see what I can see tomorrow... Good thing I didn't buy the wiring and relays yet...

 

[mrjay2u]

Keep this updated, I want to see what you figure out.

 

[Jakes40]

we need some pics

 

[Mark W]

The only reason to tun any electric fan is if you can not make a mechanical fab work. This is why you see the taurus used on conversions but seldom on stock setups. My recommendation is to stick with the stock fan or to swap a OEM clutch fan in as the ideal setup.


Mark...

 

[GarnerFJ40]

I figured since I had to pay the $80 for a new fan blade, I might switch it out and try it. I already bought the fans when I noticed everyone doing the mod had SBC in their sigs...

 

[joeyg1973]

The only reason to tun any electric fan is if you can not make a mechanical fab work. This is why you see the taurus used on conversions but seldom on stock setups. My recommendation is to stick with the stock fan or to swap a OEM clutch fan in as the ideal setup.


Mark...

Um you put an electric fan on to gain hp, torque, and fuel economy.

 

[Mark W]

Nope.... A clutch fan pulls no more power than an electric to move the same air. Possibly less since you do not have the inefficiencies of converting to electricity and back to mechanical energy.


Mark...

 

[cruiserbrett]

Um you put an electric fan on to gain hp, torque, and fuel economy.

You buy K&N air filters too, I'm guessing?

Seriously, why go through the trouble of an electric fan on a F/2F? A steady 30A load on the alternator to run the fan is going to draw as much if not more power than the mech fan, and almost certainly more power than the clutched mech fan will.

Joey, I know you have a moderna alternator, but I wouldnt consider running a Taurus fan of a stock 40A alternator.

 

[ojaij40]

You buy K&N air filters too, I'm guessing?

Seriously, why go through the trouble of an electric fan on a F/2F? A steady 30A load on the alternator to run the fan is going to draw as much if not more power than the mech fan, and almost certainly more power than the clutched mech fan will.

Joey, I know you have a moderna alternator, but I wouldnt consider running a Taurus fan of a stock 40A alternator.

I thought another reason to run an electric, was so you could have a toggle swith on dash to turn it off when going through deep water ?

 

[Mark W]

That is a reason, yes... but a clutch fan works as well. The clutch will not transmit enough power to let the blades deform forward under the resistance of the water to hit the radiator, so other than a bit more splashing there is no down side to running the clutch fan here either. Plus you do not have to remeber to turn it back on and there is no constanr on and off required when you are running a braided river bottom as a trail. And you do not have the extra complexity of the electric fan.

When we are out on the trails it is not an uncommon for an alternator to die. Lots of water crossing can take their toll eventually. Normally if that happens to someone they can simply run their battery dead and then swap it for some one else's secondary battery, letting their charge in that secondary spot while they run that battery dead. You can easily run for a week on the trail this way. B ut if you have an electric fan, that complicates it a bit. Batteries die much quicker and in addition many electric fans will not pull enough air to cool the motor unless they are at 13.5-14.5 volts. Battery voltage is gonna be 12 at most.

Really, the only reason to run an electric is if you can ot fit a mechanical fan. I have a Lincoln Continental MK VIII fan in my primary trail rig. But only because my engine location ruled out a mechanical fan.


Mark...

 

[joeyg1973]

Well me and Mark W are going to have to agree to disagree. You do gain HP, torque, and fuel economy with an electric fan. There is a good reason that you only find electric fans on vehicles sold today. If there wasn't a marked improvement, all rear wheel drive vehicles would still be running mechanical fans. As far as alternators failing at water crossings... I can see that happening to the older electro-mechanical regulators and circuitry... but a modern alternator with their sealed solid state electronics will handle that with no problems.

I do agree with Brett though. You will need to upgrade the stock alternator to a high Amp CS-140. The stock alternator in a 40 is rated at 30-40 amps brand new... a used one is probably putting out only 20-30 amps. It's not worth putting on the electric fan unless you are upgrading the alternator and the wiring too. He is however wrong about the amp draw and I have explained this before... an electric motor only draws full amps when it is stopped, once it is running the amp draw draw drops drastically. The amount of amps drawn is directly linked to the amount of work that needs to be done. In other words it draws more amps the harder it gets to keep turning.

 

[Mark W]

Joey, come run with us.... Toasting alternators is a sadly routine thing when you have a bunch of rigs running lots of trails with lots of silty rivers in the mix. Believe me or not, no big deal.

And the biggest reason for electric fans on cars is fitment. Try running a belt drive fan on a transverse mounted engine with about 2 cubic inches of room to spare under the hood anyway. On on the front of a longitudinally mounted V8 in a corvette. Or... Or... Lots of problems with fitting a mechanical fan in most modern cars. THAT is why they are far more common. Fitment and nothing else. And very very few modern cars are built for the third world or for the conditions that a hard used Cruisers sees.

BTW, the Taurus and Mrk VII fans pull 30 amps continuously. About 100 on startup. That poor F engine alternator will not push it on it's best day


Mark...

 

[joeyg1973]

Oh I would love to go wheeling in Alaska.

If you are frying alternators a lot, why not use whatever alternator is used in an HMMV? I would think those would be completely sealed considering you can go through water up to the top of the air cleaner on those things.

On a transverse mounted engine, a mechanical fan makes no sense that is why I said rear wheel drive. Trucks have the room, why are most of those electric?

 

[cruiserbrett]

He is however wrong about the amp draw and I have explained this before... an electric motor only draws full amps when it is stopped, once it is running the amp draw draw drops drastically. The amount of amps drawn is directly linked to the amount of work that needs to be done. In other words it draws more amps the harder it gets to keep turning.

Huh? It has a always has a load on it. so it never goes to "zero"

Startupload on the tauras fan is pretty stout. like 70 amps or so for the instant the motor is a dead short,and settles out to 30 amps or so running... they regularly toast the connector pins if they arent clean, and they use 10 gauge good quality wire, which is easily conservatively rated to 30+ amps.

Out of curiousity I tested one mounted to a cruiser radiator at the local machine shop with there ammeter(for testing alternator loads) and it was a steady 30amp draw.

EDIT: Almost forgot the most important part: we ran a BBC marine motor on this radiator combo with no charging system(testing a re-sleeve for leakage) and it would kill the ignition (draw the battery down) in less than 20 minutes with the fan running, if we didnt have the shop battery charger set at 30 amps charge.

 

[brider]

Great discussion, but I've read this discussion here before on MUD, and there were actual elec-to-mech power calculations (hp) and test results regarding mech fans at high speed thrown in, although I don't remember the players.

I was considering a Taurus fan in my 55 based on those previous discussions, (I had the WP pulled off anyway because of a crank pulley swap) because of the arguement regarding high HP draw of the mech fan at high rpm. Can't remember the numbers, but the HP draw of the mech non-clutch fan was ASTOUNDING at high rpm, which for me was the best arguement for the elec fan in my poor, dog-slow 1F 55. The idea of gaining that significant HP on the road was appealing-

MARK: I gotta ask: what is that picture in your profile? Is that some poor driver sitting on top of his submerged rig? I still have an older copy of TT where you wrote an AWESOME article about river crossings and backcountry travel in general. WELL done.

 

[Trollhole]

A clutched fan is the way to go. Save yourself a lot of heartache.

 

[Eric_S]

I run a Taurus fan on my 2F. However, I only use the low speed so it only draws about 10 amps continuous.

From what I have measured:
High speed = 100A inrush, 33A continuous
Low speed = 30A inrush, 10A continuous