1985 2wd base Newbie build suggestions

[eazhar]

So I recently had a chance to go off-roading in Sedona for the first time and caught the bug. Rather than do the smart thing and buy a 4wd capable truck, I want to explore some of my future short-term and long-term options with my current truck, with an emphasis on getting the most bang for my buck, with relative ease. I'm thinking about doing the following upgrades in order over the next few years, with an emphasis on long term value and opening myself up for a 4WD. Feel free to answer any of the many stupid questions I've presented..

I. Suspension

Currently, my entire front end is shot and the shop recommends that I replace Front & Rear Shocks, Radius Arm Bushings, Upper Control Arm Bushings, Center Link, and Inner And Outer Tie Rods. So I figure this is as good a time to upgrade as any. At the moment I am looking at getting a Fabtech 3.5" suspension lift kit. Some mention that the truck will still ride a little low toward the read after installation, and I've been looking at 4crawler for some body lift options (Toyota Pickup/Hilux Body Lift Kit Pricing/Ordering Page)

Body Lift Questions (Note: I have a 2WD Automatic):

1) Other than the fact that I may look a little douchy, is there a technical reason I should not go with a 3" lift option?
2) The typical kit seems to be the (D) Ultimate Lift Blocks, Standard grade hardware, (FB) Front bumper brackets--listed as 4WD only, and (RAD) Radiator drop brackets. Should I even bother with the (FB) option if I have a 2WD?

What about the other body lift items listed?
3) (SL) Shift lever extension, does it apply to automatics?
3.5) The A/T bracket and extension are for the 4wd model, should I go ahead and skip them for my truck?
4) (SE) Steering shaft extension?
5) (BS) Bed Spacers?
6) (P) Polyurethane cab mount bushings?
7) Is there a better kit I should be looking at aside from the one provided by 4crawler?

II. Accessories and winches

As far as functionality and getting stuck in the mud, I was thinking about getting a winch.

8) Do you guys have any mid-range winch recommendations?
9) Anything else worth looking into?


III. SAS

10) If I go with a solid-axle swap, should I skip the 2WD Fabtech lift option?
11) What axle is best for this and would be good for a future 4WD conversion? (Not sure if I read it correctly, but I think its been mentioned that using a Chevy S10 axle works and is better? If so what years?)
12) Is there a conversion kit or other parts I should consider before committing the solid front axle? (i.e. do all the other suspension and steering components change?)
13) What suspension lift should I consider with the axle? ProComp?


IV. Transmission

My A340 automatic is on its way out (it leaks and struggles going into overdrive). I am thinking about doing 5-speed conversion in the future. I already have a clutch pedal assembly sitting in the garage and shorter drive shaft.
14) Should I be on the lookout for a W56-A transmission or something else, if I retain the 22R? Or if I want to go 4WD in the future (I know advanced Adapters makes such a transfer case adapter..)

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Whaoooo boy! That's a lot of questions. I won't get to all of them, but I will give you my thoughts.

If you really really really want to wheel a 2wd truck, I would say you need some sort of a locker for the rear differential first and foremost. The cheap options would be to weld the spider gears up, but this is a no-go-back option. Next would be a lockrite or similar "softlocker". Last would be the selectable options, Toyota E-Locker or ARB air locker.

If you're not familiar with "lockers" just do some looking around the internet, youtube has some great videos explaining how they function. The basic idea is that they make both tires go forward no matter what.

Lift etc. I would say get some bigger tires (31's, maybe 32's), and while you're doing the locker in the rear differential, I would look at regearing to match the new tires. Maybe a body lift to make room for the tires, but I would suggest cutting the fenders over a body lift if possible.

A lot depends what your overall plan is. Is this a daily driver? Is it nice looking? Do you want it to stay nice?

Welcome to the slippery slope!!! FYI, it only gets steeper!!!

 

[pappy]

Welcome to the slippery slope!!! FYI, it only gets steeper!!!

What he said.

 

[Huk]

If it's 2wd I would recommend keeping it as light as possible and definitely getting a winch unless you're always going to be offroading with other 4x4s. IMO, At those kinds of plans though and the state of your truck(I'm assuming is a 2wd toyota pickup) I would really look into selling and buying the 4x4 version as it will save you a lot of work and $$$ as the stock trucks are pretty capable. I have seen some 2wd rigs but they are mostly cheap trucks that the owner strips down entirely(they even take off the bed) to go wheeling in.

 

[msahr]

Well first off, don't do a body lift. They suck. I know you'll find some people that swear by them. Whatever, I would NEVER body lift anything.

If you're planning on eventually making it a 4x4, all the money you spend on a 2wd suspension will be wasted. But then you probably already know that.

Definitely a rear locker is a must. I have a Detroit in my 4Runner it works great.

Stock Toyota 4x4s are still fairly inexpensive, might want to consider just starting with a 4x4 to begin with?

 

[yotadude520]

I. Suspension

Currently, my entire front end is shot and the shop recommends that I replace Front & Rear Shocks, Radius Arm Bushings, Upper Control Arm Bushings, Center Link, and Inner And Outer Tie Rods. So I figure this is as good a time to upgrade as any. At the moment I am looking at getting a Fabtech 3.5" suspension lift kit. Some mention that the truck will still ride a little low toward the read after installation, and I've been looking at 4crawler for some body lift options (Toyota Pickup/Hilux Body Lift Kit Pricing/Ordering Page)

Skip the suspension lift and go with a SAS - you won't regret it!

Body Lift Questions (Note: I have a 2WD Automatic):

1) Other than the fact that I may look a little douchy, is there a technical reason I should not go with a 3" lift option?

Body lifts are the worst possible lifts you could do to your rig - the most I would ever personally go would be a 1", but that'd be a last resort. 3" is way too high on a body lift and you're going to have do to a lot of extra work for something that's not great in the first place

2) The typical kit seems to be the (D) Ultimate Lift Blocks, Standard grade hardware, (FB) Front bumper brackets--listed as 4WD only, and (RAD) Radiator drop brackets. Should I even bother with the (FB) option if I have a 2WD?

VVVVVVV

What about the other body lift items listed?
3) (SL) Shift lever extension, does it apply to automatics?
3.5) The A/T bracket and extension are for the 4wd model, should I go ahead and skip them for my truck?
4) (SE) Steering shaft extension?
5) (BS) Bed Spacers?
6) (P) Polyurethane cab mount bushings?
7) Is there a better kit I should be looking at aside from the one provided by 4crawler?

Don't go with the body lift at all

II. Accessories and winches

As far as functionality and getting stuck in the mud, I was thinking about getting a winch.

8) Do you guys have any mid-range winch recommendations?

The Warn M8000 is an excellent winch and it's pretty reasonably priced. With a little Toyota pickup you won't need anything bigger than an 8000lb winch.

9) Anything else worth looking into?

I'm personally a fan of the Smittybilt 8000lb winches. I've had two so far and they're great winches. Their 9500lb is a little cheaper and they work great too!

III. SAS

10) If I go with a solid-axle swap, should I skip the 2WD Fabtech lift option?

Absolutely - A SAS kit will lift your truck a pretty good amount (At least high enough to fit 33's) and you're well on your way to a 4x4 conversion

11) What axle is best for this and would be good for a future 4WD conversion? (Not sure if I read it correctly, but I think its been mentioned that using a Chevy S10 axle works and is better? If so what years?)

If you're going to be doing mild wheeling/rock crawling, I would stick with a Toyota axle from a 1980-1985 pickup. I'd stay away from a 79 because there's no gusset on the axle housing and they are prone to bending. The best axle to get is out of a 84-85 as they have a longer gusset on the bottom. If you're planning on doing any extreme rock crawling or wheeling, I would go with Dana 44's front and rear.

12) Is there a conversion kit or other parts I should consider before committing the solid front axle? (i.e. do all the other suspension and steering components change?)

A good SAS kit will come with everything you'll need to replace all your suspension and steering components (Minus the steering box and the steering shaft). The kit that I would recommend would be a TrailGear kit (Nothing against the other kits out there but the TG kit comes with the most parts for the money). I've seen the TG kit (I was going to SAS mine before I sold it) and it's actually really high quality and comes with a lot of good stuff to rebuild the donor axle and a really nice crossover steering kit.

13) What suspension lift should I consider with the axle? ProComp?

The TG kit comes in three different heights - 3", 4" and 5". I would go with a 3" if you're not planning on doing anything too crazy. Of course if you wanna build an extreme rock crawling rig, that's a different story.

IV. Transmission

My A340 automatic is on its way out (it leaks and struggles going into overdrive). I am thinking about doing 5-speed conversion in the future. I already have a clutch pedal assembly sitting in the garage and shorter drive shaft.

14) Should I be on the lookout for a W56-A transmission or something else, if I retain the 22R? Or if I want to go 4WD in the future (I know advanced Adapters makes such a transfer case adapter..)

Look for a W56 transmission. They're pretty cheap and you can find them at any junkyard or pretty easily on craigslist. They're a good transmission but make sure it's in good shape before you get it. Look for one that's already out of a 4x4 and with a transfer case already attached to it, if you can get one, be sure to take the driveshaft out of it just so you know it will work unless your shorter one is the same.

I based my answers on the idea that this is still going to be a daily driver and you would just like a capable rig with decent street manners. I did skip over a few things like lockers and other mods like bumpers and gear ratios etc etc and the finer aspects of doing a build like this, but at least this will point you in the right direction and give you some insight. If you have any other questions, just feel free to ask me!

Cheers!

 

[msahr]

I agree with the above, good write-up. I'd at least give All-Pro Off Road a look for the SAS and suspension stuff. Their parts are top notch.

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

Wow! Well replied Yotadude!

I would like to put my two cents in on body lifts. They are often complicated as the higher they go, the more they affect. However my 3" body lift along with a clocked transfer case adapter allowed me to have a flat frame to frame skid plate. So I'm happy with it. That said, I did get mine for free.....

 

[yotadude520]

@2ndGenToyotaFan & @msahr Thanks you guys! Appreciate the positive feedback.

 

[ntsqd]

If you're determined to start with your existing truck the first thing has already been mentioned, tires & rear locker. Figure out what your existing axle ratio is to determine the largest reasonable tire size to use.

Unless yours is a factory turbo truck the rear differential is a 7.5" ring gear. The 4x4's have 8" rear ring gears (& fronts too if live axle). So don't put a lot of money into the existing rear axle. Or wheels for that matter because the 2X's are 5 lug and the 4x's are 6 lug.

I once had a conversation with the owner of a company that made (makes?) Toyota truck specific solid axle 3 link front suspension kits. It was unconfirmed, but we both felt that the 2WD truck frame rails might be the same profile as the live axle 4x4 truck rails. If they are not the same, they are closer in shape to them than they are to the IFS 4x4 frame rails. This is a good thing as it increases axle clearance at full bump.

The biggest problem with most SAS kits is that they're designed to work with the IFS frame and that results in a high ride height. Something to work very hard against while still maximizing up-travel. Was it me I'd look to see if that company offering the 3 link kit is still in business. It will be more expensive than a leaf spring based SAS kit, but the ease of being able to set the ride height where it should be, the superior articulation, and the large improvement in ride quality will make it worthwhile.