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One thing I am confused on is can I swap some parts from my reduction box that is a top shift and make one of the rears a top shift instead resulting in making the forward case (reduction box) a forward shift? And not have to buy a conversion???????


EDIT - SORRY I HADNT SEEN YOUR POST PRIOR TO POSTING THIS.

Ya i totally agree that with my front end welded the twin stick will not make much of a difference. What about with a lock rite? It should beings that the fastest tire can free up right?? Or still not much of a difference? I am not about saying I have a twin stick if it doesnt gain me crap.... I am leaning towards using those dollars to put towards a selectable locker

I read about the cutting and welding to DIY on the top shift conversion and I have the ability but am leaning away from it. I am thinking a kit from Inch worm or TG is a better option for me at the moment so I can focus on the motor swap.

By the way great job on the TECH section Jerod!!!
 
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I don't think your 150 to gear case adapter will take a forward shift case as the reduction case...

If you have a lock right up front, then a twin stick will let you shift into 2wd at will, which should unlock the front, so yes, that will help.

Fast, Cheap, or done right.... Pick 2.... :D Believe me, I feel your pain on trying to build on a budget...

FYI, doing the cut and weld thing easier if you do it for the reduction box... If you still have all the parts of the original top shift case, put it back together and you'll only have to mod one shift rail in the front shift to make it a reduction box. You can also mod a forward shift case shift tower and shifter to work in the top shift position....

Thanks for the appreciation, I enjoy helping people where I can... :cheers:
 
One day I will look back and ask myself why I didnt do the mod my self to save a few bucks but for now i will purchase the darn conversion. THANKS for all of your help. And to answer your question I will wait and pick option 3 which is done right. :)
 
top shifts are easily made out of forward shifts.

Ya take a forward shift tower and cut 4 notches in it, two on each side for the bolts to fit into. Then it will bolt onto the top of a range box and seal up just fine.
It will be too short to reach the rails tho. Easily fixed. Just start to build up some weld on the end of the shifter nipple that goes into the rail till it reaches the fork/rail. Then dress it upo with the grinder till it is nice and smooth and normal looking and test fit it till it clicks into hi/low smoothly.

Do this for the range box only as it will require a better job/fit for it to work on a full case smoothly.

Now yo have a range box with a top shift for $FREE.99 and a complete top shift for the second case.
Even a used craigslist topshift will only cost ya $75-100 where as a topshift conversion kit will cost $110 + shipping.

Now get a new tranny.

or

spend loot.

You will need allot of parts to make that 3.0v6 tranny fit in there.
fisrt you will need one of these Toyota, Suzuki Samurai, and Jeep Off Road Parts for $320 then you will need one of these too Toyota, Suzuki Samurai, and Jeep Off Road Parts for $140.

That means you will need to spend $460 just on tcase adapters to make it work. Then ya still need a belhousing kit too.

If you use a 21 spline 4 cly tranny with a forward shift case already on it you wont need any adapters except you dual case adapter and the conversion bellhousing.

Hmmmm:meh: sounds allot cheaper to me. Everybody chases the elusive and expensive R150 swap but 4 cyl trannys are just as tough damm neared. Ya just dont see many tranny failures cuz of breakage. Sure they fail with wear but I have never killed a good condition 4 cyl tranny in my ten years of flogging toyota trucks.

PS, twin sticks are WORTHLESS on a toyota with dual cases. Twin sticks got a cool rep cuz ya can do front digs and burns but a toy case will not permit these functions. A twin stick on a toy case only gives you the option of 2wd low added to the stock selections.

With dual cases ya just put the range box in low and the back case in 2wd and its the same effect.

The only added bennifit of a twin stick on a toyota is so ya can write "twin sticks" in your sig line and pretend it made ya cooler.

NOTHING will cure a welded front diff. They suck no matter what you do to the rest of the truck.
 
Hehe I didn't mean pick #2, I meant you get to pick 2 of the 3 Fast. Cheap. Or done right...
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Totally understood ya ;)

Chop Shop you have a talent for writing what I am already thinking. That was what I figured on the twin stick but I thought maybe I was missing something. I wouldnt try a front dig even if the sticks would allow it as I am already pushing my luck with welded and stock birfs. My thinking on the R150 was that back in the day when I wheeled a lot the only thing I ever killed was 4 cylinder trannys. Now with that said I have no idea which model they were but I went through two of them (I was young and liked to rock it hard when stuck) I knew one of the 4 cylinder trannys was tough and would do almost as good but I needed someone (like you) to say I most likely would never kill it with the 4.3. My thought was this.... If I kill the good model of 4 cylinder tranny they are a bit hard to find and expensive when I see them However if I kill an R150 its a 100 dollar bill around here and that normally inlcudes a chain case hooked behind them. I think its because so many 3.0s have given up but ???. I told myself with the 4.3 if I tore two trannies out in the life of the truck it would pay for the additional adapters. I played with the sm465 idea but didnt want that weight plus the 205 hanging back there and when I called to order the sm465 to toyota gear tcase adapter they said 3 months assuming they ever make anymore he wasnt sure.

So basically that is how I got caught in the R150 crowd ;p

Oh and swapping that crap around was my hope to prevent buying a conversion at 109! I totally agree after I saw the 109 I headed for craigslist for an hour. BUT i will take on the conversion my self and save the money for the next damn adapter!! I already took it in the shorts for the bellhousing. To think I told myself I would buy all this stuff used... :rolleyes:
 
an R150 its a 100 dollar bill around here and that normally inlcudes a chain case hooked behind them.
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LOL probably becuase people are smarter than me and do not want to pay for all the dang adapters!!!! :lol:

Is it bad when you start making fun of your own quotes???
 
Chop Shop I have another question (big suprise huh??).

With dual cases ya just put the range box in low and the back case in 2wd and its the same effect.
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Truth or Myth?? If you run the front box in low and the rear box in high you run a higher risk of snapping the shaft between the two? I have heard if your going to only run one box it should be the rear :meh: I am sure even if its TRUTH your simply referring to a "stay the heck of the throttle and trying to turn to get around a tree" type scenario so I am not questioning you but do want to know the scoop. The guy that told me this handed me a snapped shaft.....
 
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4x4 Station Wagon said:
Chop Shop I have another question (big suprise huh??).



Truth or Myth?? If you run the front box in low and the rear box in high you run a higher risk of snapping the shaft between the two? I have heard if your going to only run one box it should be the rear :meh: I am sure even if its TRUTH your simply referring to a "stay the heck of the throttle and trying to turn to get around a tree" type scenario so I am not questioning you but do want to know the scoop. The guy that told me this handed me a snapped shaft.....
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Think of it this way. The second case is in HI (1 to 1) thats just like its not even there at all.

Now the front case gets put in low (2.2 to 1) thats the normal load its going to see in low range anyways.

Now remember you are doing this to achieve 2 wheel drive low. You do understand things can only get so hairy in 2wd, right? Ive not know to many folks breaking things in 2wd unless being dumb.
 
If you are wheeling to the point where you are breaking transfer cases, then it's time for you to upgrade..... I've only heard of a few transfer cases breaking with a doubler installed. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it's not very common.....
 
sounds good thanks. I have no background on the scenario I was advised of. I didn't think much of it and may not have appeared to care as the guy stated "here I will show you" reached into a drawer and pulled out a perfectly snapped t-case shaft. Again who knows but it definately concerned me enough to check with you guys to be certain as I couldnt find any mention of it when googling.

The example I provided is that I have personally wiped out gears in two 4 cylinder trannys, I have never had an issue with a t-case. I was young and stupid though and probably had it coming.

When I started collecting parts, the 4.3, the r150, the doubler, etc. I was making this vehicle universal to the point i could throw 33s on it and drive it to work during the summer as well as hunt out of which I take very serious. So I really wanted to keep the weight down, the MPG in the acceptable range, the 5 speed to help with that, the comfort of the yota tranny and t-case, etc. In the middle of scouting the 20r was getting 8 mpg as mentioned on here back then and I got tired of fighting it and bought a chevy tracker. So my point here is now its a toy.... nothing more. I do want to keep it street legal but thats it. So I probably should have hocked my parts collection and went with a 465 and 205 and maybe even a v8 for power as well as simplicity of parts. Everyday I get deeper and deeper into the path of no return....... Hope that at least helps clarify the choices I made right or wrong :)
 
I cleaned up the tranny and chain tcase the best I could or am willing and mounted the bell housing. The package is the same length within a 1/2" of my current bellhousing/tranny/tcase. So if I am able to get away with not modifying my rear driveline (again) I am going to go ahead and run the chain case for now until I want to dish out the 400. I am not sure that is going to happen because I am not going with a body lift and it appears as though I may need to move the motor 2" forward to be clear of the distributor.

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:mad: Ok this is getting rediculous. I have a 98 4.3 vortec and I think I am now finding out that my pipe dream of a 153 tooth flywheel is unrealistic. So now I am confused as heck and may have needed the other bellhousing and special nose cone less starter. If this is the case I may reach my frustration point................... I didnt want the 168 tooth because they spoke of clearance issues and more work on the exhaust, special starter, etc. etc. I thought there were two options of flywheels and it was a no brainer as the bolt patterns were different and all the balancing was the same and a 168 and 153 existed for the simple reason of one would allow a larger disc but either could be used. :bang: The more I search the more one guy argues with the next and I get no where

Yep one more reason I should have just went with a v8 and chevy tranny
 
It gets better I am 97% sure I have some special crank that has the pilot hole machined out differently than normal sbc cranks.... I either get to throw the towel in on that motor or assuming I figure the flywheel scenario out I will have to machine a reducer for the pilot hole to adapt in the extended pilot bushing that comes with the adpater kit. I am not one to normally give up but I am less than happy at this point to say the least.
 
This is why I have a 22RE in my TOYOTA wheeler.

V8s and 4.3s belong in fullsize rigs or buggys.

The added weight and power of the 4.3 will not make your welded sheetmetal axle happy either.

You are opening a never ending can of worms to get around spending a grand on a new rebuilt 22re longblock.

But hey, that ol domestic junk was, well, cheap, right? :popcorn:
 
I'm gonna have to side with Chop Shop.... The whole point of dual cases and gears to no end is you don't need tons of power to compensate....

There's simply no such thing as an easy engine swap...

I do hope it works it's self out one way or another for you! :cheers:
 
Unfortunately I agree with chop shop even though I dont want too. :D As for the money.... Come on chop shop if there is one thing you have to give me some credit for it is that I didnt make this decision based off of the price.... as you kindly pointed out earlier (which was right) :) 2ndgen I agree I do in deed need a chevy guru at this point and I appreciate your willingness to help if you could. I have had a 22r with a 20r head that I hogged the hell out of, cam, header, pinto carb, etc and I agree it worked great but I wanted a little more this time. I wanted to try to press every item you have mentioned up to the limit short of needing a dana 60 putting myself back in square one. At this point I may cut my losses on the adapter and hock the rest and build another 22r but obviously maybe step it up on the fuel system. In the end at this point all I have pushed to the limit is my melon. On a better note I just got back from another run on some of the hardest stuff we have and ofcourse since its a yota still I was able to drive it home

Couple pics of today with the last of my co-pilot lights out. Too much of :bounce:
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2ndgen, I didn't make it a full week but your advice was exactly what I needed to get a clear head. I will be 100% honest I am not sure if I am happy to say or sad but I think I have this figured out. In the fine italic print the instructions talk about a larger pilot bushing for the 99 and up GM V8 and V6s due to a larger crank ID. Originally when I looked up the part number it didnt exist and due to my frustration I ended up side tracked. It appears now that it is listed as a different part number now and is a 1.090 EXT. BUSHING(.670 X GM CRANK) where as the old ones are Pilot Bushing 1.090 X .471 so that hoop is tackled.

EDIT I FOUND OUT THAT I WAS WRONG ON THE BUSHINGS LISTED ABOVE AND I NEED A STEEL BUSHING THAT REDUCES WHAT I HAVE WHICH IS PART NUMBER 716155 FROM ADVANCED ADAPTERS!!! I HAVE COME BACK AND ADDED THIS EDIT TO MAKE SURE I DO NOT MESS SOMEONE UP IN THE FUTURE!

I was explaining to a friend of mine the flywheel confusion and he said well that isnt a problem because when we get the new motors they come with a flywheel and we have to take the flywheel off and put a flex plate on so how many flywheels do you want :meh:. So my only bump in the road now is the fact that I am pretty sure I am stuck with the 168 tooth which my block has the staggered bolts for the starter (for a 168) and the bellhousing will accept a 168 I just have to buy a nose cone less starter which I have found for a lot less than I was expecting. I had spent the last few days in a motel with nothing better to do than drink and google and honestly I was not opposed to staying with the 22r and most likely going back to a hybrid. Now I am like :rolleyes: cuz i have all the parts sitting here (oh ya I scored another running 4.3 vortec as a spare with the true vortec heads).
 
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