1978 FJ40- external resistor (1 Viewer)

[pithicus]

I thought the 78 was supposed to have electronic ignition? Or was it imported?
Now i'm confused. My covid is playing up again DOH
Sorry for the confusion erm6266, I just assumed it had points. I got the years wrong, and the wiring diagrams wrong. Please ignore lol.
Anyhoo dizzy type is irrelevant to your problem.

It should still have a resistance wire in the harness. and an igniter like this http://www.globalsoftware-inc.com/coolerman/fj40/DizzyFAQImages/IMG_0150.jpg

 

[Saguaro]

Aren't they all "imported"? The diagram shows two wires to coil. One from starter, one from ignition switch. HEI would have one switched 12V source. No resistor, as you said. Whatever Toyota does could be different. Diagram shows an "ignitor". .....Wikileaks says: The igniter is the step up transformer that sits inline between the engine control computer and the ignition coil. It takes the low amperage signal from the computer, usually a 12 volt square wave, and steps it up to higher amperage trigger signal for the ignition coil.

Don't know what you mean by "Electronic Ignition". If you mean HEI or equivalent, does not look that way to me on this one so far. Correction invited.

 

[pithicus]

Aren't they all "imported"?

As in from south america or oz. etc Elec ignition is hei / petronix / anything non points. @Saguaro Sorry ignore this, I had a brain fart.

Back on point, check that fusible link, and once you figure out why there is no power to the coil + you should be good.

 

[Saguaro]

Understood. It is a Magnetic Coil "electronic distributor". No points. Not HEI. Uses an externally resisted coil. This is a Pertronix style pickup. Early Pertronix does use external traditional coil and Ballast Resistor. Not high energy, but pointless. Same as Toyota FJ40 1978.? Does not change the troubleshoot or solutions on this. Except that it's resisted not for the points, it is resisted for the coil primary. With early Pertronix you keep ballast with stock coils or no ballast with their coils. The Toyota coil seems to have a Primary that needs resisted....or their are other components vulnerable.

 

[erm6266]

OK erm6266, I'm going to try and help you with a little humor along the way. Don't take offence. It's good info for you to learn and I will continue to help if you wish.
I looked at the 78 wiring diagram thanks to Coolerman. Now, here's the deal:
Points style distributors can not survive on 12V, they will burn soon. Soooooooooooo..........
Most automakers use two wires to the coil. One is a full 12V during starter motor operation because the starter tries to suck all the juice and the coil needs some too. This 12V is supplied only when starting. Then the other wire takes over. This other wire is run thru a resistance to lower the "Run" voltage to 8V or 9V so as to "save" the points/points contacts. This system uses a coil that says "externally resisted" on it because it is externally resisted by the system, as you will see. Some folks do not use any resistance system wiring. Those folks use a internally resisted coil. Resistance is "built in" to the coil. Those people are communists and their hair will fall out. So anyway...........

There are two ways that resistance is introduced. Earlier FJ used a regular old resistor. A big ceramic block with a coil. It is referred to as a Ballast Resistor. This was mounted on the firewall or near coil.

Then some genius decided that a long piece nickle/blabium wire would act as a resistor. But it had to be so long that it was doubled back in itself inside the harness. Travels all over the place. This is referred to as Resistance Wire. A real hoot of an idea. It's better to snip it on both ends and install a good old ceramic one.

With either of the two resistance methods, there is a "bypass" wire. That's the coil wire that's "hot" only during cranking. That there wire is supplied by the starter solenoid. Sometimes labeled "R". It goes directly from solenoid to coil.

Now the problem here, as usual, is that we don't know very much about this problem. The poster knows nothing about ignition and has chosen to ask about how to check some thingy. He has a some sort of reason for bypassing an exact explanation of the problem and just ask for help.

1. First we see "where is the external resistor?"................on this thing.
2. Then "what is a loom?" vs harness/bundle/wiring
3. Then he/she is told to chase a Pink Yazi wire. Holy Moses!
4. Then we have "no spark".
5. Wait, it's no voltage to the coil with key on. (I hope)....But we don't know if it fires at that point.
6. So we hook up 12V directly to the coil. It starts!!!!! So we do have spark!!!! Awesome. The key was on and a jumper was hooked up, you then had Voltage.... but.....but.......... it wasn't because the key was on, you bypassed the key. It did start due to that wire. But not exactly sure if it "fired" without that wire. Not start, but fire. That...... we need to know.
7. You can continue to guess and chase the Pick wire and wonder what it's all about or we can get back to basics with you doing some tests and report the results.
8. Get the Coolerman 78 FJ40 diagram downloaded so we can talk the same language. I am not a Toyota expert but probably can figure out this deal with the help from the crew here who do know FJ40.
9. Maybe I can get you to do a firewall ballast resistor. But some here will revolt to that idea so as to be "original". I really don't know if "original" is a ballast resistor or resistance wire for 78. The diagram shows the symbol for a resistor. That could also be the Japanese way of showing a long wire, and you seem to have that long wire.
The End.

All great points and as you can probably tell I am thoroughly confused by all the advice. Just to let you know, my '78 has a stock stolid state distributor, no points or condenser. I assume when I use the jumper wire from the battery to the coil and the engine starts, that tells me that everything from the coil forward is working properly. It appears my issue is between the ignition switch and the coil. But, I'm no expert

 

[Solace in Solitude]

Read posts #3 & 16 —> Help wiring up a DUI HEI dizzy please.

‘78 US Spec is electronic ignition. EDIT: More Mark (Coolerman) info In post# 4, paragraph 3 —>

Troubleshooting electronic ignition ('78 FJ40)

I had hoped to hear the ol' 2F roar back to life this weekend, but no joy! :crybaby: It appears the problem is with the ignition. Fuel is good - I'm pulling fuel from the tank to the rebuilt carb, via the new pump no problem. Starter is good and strong, battery well charged and putting out...

forum.ih8mud.com

EDIT: Read post# 20, Mark’s explanation of how the big, pink resistor wire is used —> Igniter Plug

FYI: All if this can be found by, searching MUD, from Google... example: ih8mud: Coolerman 1978 electronic ignition

 

[Saguaro]

erm6266: You are correct.........

If motor stops when jumper removed, the voltage source to coil from ignition switch is somehow open. That can be anything, as said, from no power to ignition switch, fuse, bad switch, no power getting to coil from ignition switch thru the resistance wire. Logic says that if the starter turns over, the solenoid is getting power from the ignition switch, so the ignition switch does have power to it and is sending that power to the solenoid but not to the coil. As others have said, you need to check the terminal on the ignition switch that is for "coil on" and see if it is hot with key on. If it is, the resistance wire is broken. If it is not, the switch is broken.
To confirm, without jumper attached, motor should fire when key is in "start" position, then stop when key is released and returns to "ON" position. I have asked for that test already. No response. Without that test, we don't know for sure if the coil is getting voltage from the solenoid during crank. The jumper bypasses both voltage sources to coil. We do know that the ignition voltage to coil is no good due to motor shut off when jumper removed.

If you figure out that the resistance wire is bad. Disconnect it from the ignition switch and from the coil and tape the ends. Buy a generic Chevy Ballast Resistor. Mount it on the firewall. Run a wire from ignition "ON" to the Ballast Resistor, out the other side of Ballast Resistor to coil. Leave the solenoid feed on the coil. Done and fixed.
just brainstorming, your thinking is on the right track. Stay with it. It's not difficult to fix. I would 100% forget chasing the Yazi Pink wire. If you do rip it out, make sure you torture it before throwing it away. It's garbage.

As far as the links in #26 above. You don't need a relay to run a DUI HEI. (If that is what it says).

 

[erm6266]

erm6266: You are correct.........

If motor stops when jumper removed, the voltage source to coil from ignition switch is somehow open. That can be anything, as said, from no power to ignition switch, fuse, bad switch, no power getting to coil from ignition switch thru the resistance wire. Logic says that if the starter turns over, the solenoid is getting power from the ignition switch, so the ignition switch does have power to it and is sending that power to the solenoid but not to the coil. As others have said, you need to check the terminal on the ignition switch that is for "coil on" and see if it is hot with key on. If it is, the resistance wire is broken. If it is not, the switch is broken.
To confirm, without jumper attached, motor should fire when key is in "start" position, then stop when key is released and returns to "ON" position. I have asked for that test already. No response. Without that test, we don't know for sure if the coil is getting voltage from the solenoid during crank. The jumper bypasses both voltage sources to coil. We do know that the ignition voltage to coil is no good due to motor shut off when jumper removed.

If you figure out that the resistance wire is bad. Disconnect it from the ignition switch and from the coil and tape the ends. Buy a generic Chevy Ballast Resistor. Mount it on the firewall. Run a wire from ignition "ON" to the Ballast Resistor, out the other side of Ballast Resistor to coil. Leave the solenoid feed on the coil. Done and fixed.
just brainstorming, your thinking is on the right track. Stay with it. It's not difficult to fix. I would 100% forget chasing the Yazi Pink wire. If you do rip it out, make sure you torture it before throwing it away. It's garbage.

As far as the links in #26 above. You don't need a relay to run a DUI HEI. (If that is what it says).

Ok, I have tested the ignition switch (new one). From what I understand from the above post, I need to test the black/yellow wire on the back of the ignition switch. With the key "on", I have 12.44 volts on the black/yellow wire. So, that tells me the ignition switch is good. As far as finding the broken resistor wire, I have no clue which wire is the resistor wire. I have checked for any other in-line fuses and can't find any under the dash. From the information from the above post, there is no resistor wire coming off the battery as pictured. I cannot locate a fusible link as pictured. My next step is trace the black/yellow wire from the ignition to see if it is spliced into another wire. If so, I think that should be the resistor wire. But, I'm no expert

 

[pithicus]

My next step is trace the black/yellow wire from the ignition

yessir, that's the logical step. Nearly there.

Also sometimes you can get a break in a wire right at the crimped lug/ring connector. I would check the one at the coil+ terminal.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

erm6266: You are correct.........

If motor stops when jumper removed, the voltage source to coil from ignition switch is somehow open. That can be anything, as said, from no power to ignition switch, fuse, bad switch, no power getting to coil from ignition switch thru the resistance wire. Logic says that if the starter turns over, the solenoid is getting power from the ignition switch, so the ignition switch does have power to it and is sending that power to the solenoid but not to the coil. As others have said, you need to check the terminal on the ignition switch that is for "coil on" and see if it is hot with key on. If it is, the resistance wire is broken. If it is not, the switch is broken.
To confirm, without jumper attached, motor should fire when key is in "start" position, then stop when key is released and returns to "ON" position. I have asked for that test already. No response. Without that test, we don't know for sure if the coil is getting voltage from the solenoid during crank. The jumper bypasses both voltage sources to coil. We do know that the ignition voltage to coil is no good due to motor shut off when jumper removed.

If you figure out that the resistance wire is bad. Disconnect it from the ignition switch and from the coil and tape the ends. Buy a generic Chevy Ballast Resistor. Mount it on the firewall. Run a wire from ignition "ON" to the Ballast Resistor, out the other side of Ballast Resistor to coil. Leave the solenoid feed on the coil. Done and fixed.
just brainstorming, your thinking is on the right track. Stay with it. It's not difficult to fix. I would 100% forget chasing the Yazi Pink wire. If you do rip it out, make sure you torture it before throwing it away. It's garbage.

As far as the links in #26 above. You don't need a relay to run a DUI HEI. (If that is what it says).

My post, in 26, wasn’t directed to you. It was directed to the OP.

If someone were actually motivated to read the suggested posts and links in 26, they would learn how to determine whether the PINK wire exists in the harness, what it’s connected to and knowledge that very few MUDders have.

You’d be better served to not presume to know it all.

 

[erm6266]

My post, in 26, wasn’t directed to you. It was directed to the OP.

If someone were actually motivated to read the suggested posts and links in 26, they would learn how to determine whether the PINK wire exists in the harness, what it’s connected to and knowledge that very few MUDders have.

You’d be better served to not presume to know it all.

I read your post. There is a pink wire in the harness, but it's not a large 10 gauge wire. I will trace it to see if maybe it's spliced into the yellow/black ignition wire under the dash. It is not spliced into the wiring harness near the firewall under the hood as the photo you sent.

 

[erm6266]

yessir, that's the logical step. Nearly there.

Also sometimes you can get a break in a wire right at the crimped lug/ring connector. I would check the one at the coil+ terminal.

Good idea. I will check that. I appreciate your help!

 

[Saguaro]

We are all trying to help the poster. Characterizing my opinions, advice, suggestions, whether they are contrary to others or not, can't be stiffeled by someone saying I am a know-it-all. I am experienced in many areas, that is true. I can be wrong about Toyota because I'm new to them. Much of older automotive electrical is all the same. Electrical explanations by me or anyone else can be challenged for the benefit of the poster and all others. We can't have one person for all answers. If you have a specific point to correct about my advice and opinions, let me know. A cheerleader for one person is not helpful. I respect everyone's opinion. If I feel it is debatable, I will indicate. My delivery can be too direct for the sensitive type, but I try to ad humor and don't attack anyone as you did. But I will defend myself. Let me know if this forum is not open to varied methods and advice for posters who are electrically challenged as this poster is. I especially like to help folks like him. I am him, I was him, I feel his frustration. Let's all stick to helping the poster get good accurate information.

erm6266: Can you advise what "as pictured" means? So I can understand your interpretation of the wiring in this statement. " From the information from the above post, there is no resistor wire coming off the battery as pictured. I cannot locate a fusible link as pictured." I need to see what you are referring to . For example: I didn't see where the resistance wire is "coming off the battery". Please be specific. Thanks. Also have you understood the work around using a ballast resistor and what is your opinion about that fix? So far you have ignored that bit and are still chasing a pink yazi wire. It's OK to want to find it. As you have figured out, you must physically follow the wires from that "ON" terminal. You can buzz them out or you can UNWRAP the harness to see and inspect all its connections, branches and splices. There is no other way to find a break or loose connection. Hence the reason for abandoning it as I have stated. IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE even for an experienced person. You can cause more trouble while grubbing around with it. That wire can be hard to find a replacement for and it can be hard to solder. It's weird stuff. This is food for thought, meant to offer alternatives to get this fixed for you. Not know-it-all demands. It makes absolutely NO SENSE to be a Toyota purist about electrical. It's a silly notion.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

I read your post. There is a pink wire in the harness, but it's not a large 10 gauge wire. I will trace it to see if maybe it's spliced into the yellow/black ignition wire under the dash. It is not spliced into the wiring harness near the firewall under the hood as the photo you sent.

The only pink wire in a US spec harness is a 10ga pink resistor wire.

I didn’t send a photo of the harness or the pink wire. I described roughly where to find it.

 

[erm6266]

We are all trying to help the poster. Characterizing my opinions, advice, suggestions, whether they are contrary to others or not, can't be stiffeled by someone saying I am a know-it-all. I am experienced in many areas, that is true. I can be wrong about Toyota because I'm new to them. Much of older automotive electrical is all the same. Electrical explanations by me or anyone else can be challenged for the benefit of the poster and all others. We can't have one person for all answers. If you have a specific point to correct about my advice and opinions, let me know. A cheerleader for one person is not helpful. I respect everyone's opinion. If I feel it is debatable, I will indicate. My delivery can be too direct for the sensitive type, but I try to ad humor and don't attack anyone as you did. But I will defend myself. Let me know if this forum is not open to varied methods and advice for posters who are electrically challenged as this poster is. I especially like to help folks like him. I am him, I was him, I feel his frustration. Let's all stick to helping the poster get good accurate information.

erm6266: Can you advise what "as pictured" means? So I can understand your interpretation of the wiring in this statement. " From the information from the above post, there is no resistor wire coming off the battery as pictured. I cannot locate a fusible link as pictured." I need to see what you are referring to . For example: I didn't see where the resistance wire is "coming off the battery". Please be specific. Thanks. Also have you understood the work around using a ballast resistor and what is your opinion about that fix? So far you have ignored that bit and are still chasing a pink yazi wire. It's OK to want to find it. As you have figured out, you must physically follow the wires from that "ON" terminal. You can buzz them out or you can UNWRAP the harness to see and inspect all its connections, branches and splices. There is no other way to find a break or loose connection. Hence the reason for abandoning it as I have stated. IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE even for an experienced person. You can cause more trouble while grubbing around with it. That wire can be hard to find a replacement for and it can be hard to solder. It's weird stuff. This is food for thought, meant to offer alternatives to get this fixed for you. Not know-it-all demands. It makes absolutely NO SENSE to be a Toyota purist about electrical. It's a silly notion.

Thanks again for your reply. When I mention "as pictured", I am referring to members that have responded to my post and provided links to photos of resistor wires, fusible links, resistor wires from the battery, etc. Please know that I am not ignoring what you are suggesting. I'm getting so many responses, I'm a bit overwhelmed. What I do is read individual posts sent to me, make notes, go to my 40 and look for what folks are telling me what to look for.

 

[erm6266]

The only pink wire in a US spec harness is a 20ga pink resistor wire.

I didn’t send a photo of the harness or the pink wire. I described roughly where to find it.

Thank you! Had you confused with another member that send photos

 

[Saguaro]

erm6266. So nice to see your approach to this and your reaction. I will give you some space to sort out the path. I am so bent on getting a problem solved, that I do not pace the info. Sorry about that. My engineering background dictates my thought often. Everyone has been great to support you. You are learning very fast and none of this is easy to grasp. I try not to approach it in high technical terms. I try to be more practical than technical sometimes. You are really a smart person and it's nice to see you are DIY oriented. In the end, it's way more fun to fix it yourself with some internet (forum) help. I look up everything from household appliance troubles to medical to automotive. It's all on the web somewhere and with videos! Stay well and don't blow anything up on your FJ

 

[Solace in Solitude]

We are all trying to help the poster. Characterizing my opinions, advice, suggestions, whether they are contrary to others or not, can't be stiffeled by someone saying I am a know-it-all.

Much of older automotive electrical is all the same.

We can't have bogus info especially supported by someone who does not know anything about electrical but just trusts one person for all answers.


A no-nothing cheerleader for one person is not helpful.

I try to ad humor and don't attack anyone as you did.

Let's all stick to helping the poster get good accurate information.

It makes absolutely NO SENSE to be a Toyota purist about electrical. It's a silly notion.

Yes, we are all trying to help the OP.

Regarding the rest:

First: I never said you were a know-it-all, I mused that you hadn’t even read the link
I posted, before recommending the OP disregard it. What I said was, “You’d be better served to not presume to know it all.”.

Second: Regarding your “Much of older automotive electrical is all the same” statement is certainly true. Some is not. The pink resistor wire is not even the same on all 40s.

Third: Regarding your “We can't have bogus info especially supported by someone who does not know anything about electrical but just trusts one person for all answers.” statement, it’s both presumptuous and condescending.

While I don’t know as much as Mark knows (and probably not even as much as you know) about FJ40 electrical, I know more than I ever wanted to know and, certainly, enough to get back home from all the places I’ve been.

Fourth: Regarding your: “A no-nothing cheerleader for one person is not helpful.” statement, I’m devastated!! I’ve spent many of my 71 years trying to impress you.
Also, I’m a know-nothing, not a no-nothing... never a no-nothing.

Fifth: Regarding your “I try to ad humor and don't attack anyone as you did.” statement, please try harder. If you feel I attacked you, I apologize. You must be one of those sensitive types, I merely pointed out your foibles.

Sixth: Regarding your “Let's all stick to helping the poster get good accurate information.” statement. I agree, but please point out any inaccurate information I’ve posted.

Seventh: Regarding your “It makes absolutely NO SENSE to be a Toyota purist about electrical. It's a silly notion.” statement. I’m conflicted. First, I’m not a purist, my 40 has a number of modifications, to improve reliability and performance. But, beware, many MUDders ARE purists. Second, Saying something is a silly notion is insulting to all the purists on MUD.

Cheers.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

You really need a fusible link of some sort... to prevent melting your harness and/or burning your truck to the ground.

if your truck is a ‘78 US spec, the BY 10ga and the BY 12 ga originate at the same point, under the hood. It’s been a long time, but IIRC they originate at the igniter, on the coil. I can’t check my truck, I don’t have the oem coil and igniter any more. The only difference in the two BY wires, other than the wire size, is the pink resistor wire spliced to the 10ga BY wire.

 

[Saguaro]

Solace, I edited my rough parts a long time ago after seeing it was "unprofessional". I don't know how you quoted the unedited??? Maybe there is a lag. Sorry. As far as your First and Second comment above. I don't think there is any difference in what you said and what you re-said. Next, the, so called, pink wire is what I would call a resistance wire. I don't care what color it is or how it's bundled in various Toyota's or Domestic, it does the same thing and is wired functionally the same way. You seem to be grasping for ways to argue while trying to seem fair............. It ain't workin'. Stop the BS.