It looks like you’ve only sanded the original paint off the area…excellent work!
Builds 1977 FJ40 Rebuild – Focus on Custom Stainless Tub
- Thread starter psmbfuer
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psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #122
And now that we have the mid-floor mount areas of the rear floor rebuilt, it is time to replace the outer edge on each side of the rear floor with stainless so the vertical wheel well panel to floor lap joint will be stainless to stainless.
Unfortunately, this is the only pic that we have of the passenger edge being replaced.
And here are several pics of the edge being replaced on the driver's side rear floor. [Edit:] I should have also mentioned that you will see that we replaced the rear floor edge in increments of ~12 inches at a time. We had concern that the floor would loose it rigidity and straightness if we were to remove the entire edge at one, and that we would increase the chances or warping if we removed the entire length and then welded in one new replacement edge.
Here is a look inside the the rear-most rear floor support that was mentioned earlier in the thread on post #120. This will almost certainly be removed when we remove the tub, put it on the rotisserie, and work any remaining issues from the bottom of the tub.
Rather than welding this next patch directly to the bend of the floor edge, we decided to also replace an inch of the outer floor due to some minor pitting. Replacing the horizontal floor area really wasn't necessary, but it was roughly the same amount of effort, so why not.
And I don't have any pics of the left-most section being replaced - this is the last pic that I have of the edge replacement. [Edit - pics were located and can be seen in the next post.]
Unfortunately, this is the only pic that we have of the passenger edge being replaced.
And here are several pics of the edge being replaced on the driver's side rear floor. [Edit:] I should have also mentioned that you will see that we replaced the rear floor edge in increments of ~12 inches at a time. We had concern that the floor would loose it rigidity and straightness if we were to remove the entire edge at one, and that we would increase the chances or warping if we removed the entire length and then welded in one new replacement edge.
Here is a look inside the the rear-most rear floor support that was mentioned earlier in the thread on post #120. This will almost certainly be removed when we remove the tub, put it on the rotisserie, and work any remaining issues from the bottom of the tub.
Rather than welding this next patch directly to the bend of the floor edge, we decided to also replace an inch of the outer floor due to some minor pitting. Replacing the horizontal floor area really wasn't necessary, but it was roughly the same amount of effort, so why not.
And I don't have any pics of the left-most section being replaced - this is the last pic that I have of the edge replacement. [Edit - pics were located and can be seen in the next post.]
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The amount of effort and the quality your your work is exceptional.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #125
Above in post #122, I mentioned that we didn't have a pic of the left-most side of the floor edge in the 2nd to last pic, but we do. We actually replaced more than just the edge, and build the outer rib and floor edge in one piece.
Here is a pic of the floor area and as you can see it is still fairly solid, but more pitting that we wanted in the areas closest to front of the wheel well. So, we cut it out and replaced it.
Here is the new stainless patch.
As most cases through this build, we now replace the mating surface for the new stainless patch, so we have a stainless to stainless lap joint.
Welded the new patch back in place.
And now the entire rear floor edge is stainless, and ready to be mated to the vertical wheel well panel.
Here is a pic of the floor area and as you can see it is still fairly solid, but more pitting that we wanted in the areas closest to front of the wheel well. So, we cut it out and replaced it.
Here is the new stainless patch.
As most cases through this build, we now replace the mating surface for the new stainless patch, so we have a stainless to stainless lap joint.
Welded the new patch back in place.
And now the entire rear floor edge is stainless, and ready to be mated to the vertical wheel well panel.
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Hydroforming and the Figur G15 machine : I've seen there are other variations of this type of machine but does anyone know of any companies in Canada or US ?
I have no idea what the machine and software cost - but I would bet that such a machine or 2 could run 24/7 forming out Land Cruiser sheet metal parts at such a good price there would never be an inventory - print and sell
Google says $500,000 ready to print - I'll buy on when I hit the lotto.
Google says $500,000 ready to print - I'll buy on when I hit the lotto.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Just curious, how many screws have you lost in that bathmat? 
psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #129
Good eye Malleus, but don't be dissing my old mat 
(I know your not) - that bath mat is a central tool in all of this, I kneel on it, lay on it, use it to keep a finished piece of stainless from getting scratched, to keep parts from sliding, keep tools from rolling; I fold it in half and use as a tool-carrying satchel between the house, driveway, and shop; and if you notice the bottom is rubber, so if I am dealing with smaller parts, I just place the rubber side up, so not too many screws have been lost. You have likely notice and maybe this is why you mention it, but the mat first debuted back in post #23, and has appeared in 8 posts since. Again, a lot of words to say "not too many". Where I loose bolts/nuts/screws are on my stone driveway between the house and shop, where we often do mechanical work.
(I know your not) - that bath mat is a central tool in all of this, I kneel on it, lay on it, use it to keep a finished piece of stainless from getting scratched, to keep parts from sliding, keep tools from rolling; I fold it in half and use as a tool-carrying satchel between the house, driveway, and shop; and if you notice the bottom is rubber, so if I am dealing with smaller parts, I just place the rubber side up, so not too many screws have been lost. You have likely notice and maybe this is why you mention it, but the mat first debuted back in post #23, and has appeared in 8 posts since. Again, a lot of words to say "not too many". Where I loose bolts/nuts/screws are on my stone driveway between the house and shop, where we often do mechanical work.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #130
Now that we have the floor edges replaced, we need to do the same to the remaining original front wheel well panels. Here we remove the carbon steel - and remember this edge had a 90 degree bend that would result as a lap joint mating to the quarter panel.
Now a simple new edge with plug weld holes.
And the new edge welded into place from the bottom.
And for those trying to learning about welding, if you look closely below, this is not the best weld in that penetration is inconsistent. This pic is uploaded in full size so you hopefully have a clearer view of the inconsistent penetration. (Most browsers support right clicking the below photo and then selecting "Open Image in New Tab", or something like that - depends on your browser - and then can should be able so zoom in for a better look. We should have been more diligent when welding, but we welded from the bottom and had the welder config tuned in from previous welds and never checked the other side until we were done. If we would have left a small gap of roughly 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch, this would not have happened. Or, we could have turned up the heat (volts/amps) and / or wire speed, but my old Miller 185 has discrete increments for this and we would likely have better off minding the gap.
Now a simple new edge with plug weld holes.
And the new edge welded into place from the bottom.
And for those trying to learning about welding, if you look closely below, this is not the best weld in that penetration is inconsistent. This pic is uploaded in full size so you hopefully have a clearer view of the inconsistent penetration. (Most browsers support right clicking the below photo and then selecting "Open Image in New Tab", or something like that - depends on your browser - and then can should be able so zoom in for a better look. We should have been more diligent when welding, but we welded from the bottom and had the welder config tuned in from previous welds and never checked the other side until we were done. If we would have left a small gap of roughly 1/32 - 1/16 of an inch, this would not have happened. Or, we could have turned up the heat (volts/amps) and / or wire speed, but my old Miller 185 has discrete increments for this and we would likely have better off minding the gap.
It's really inspiring watching your work on this. Ideas in my head for a DIY bend brake...
psmbfuer
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psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #133
We now need to work the inside edge of the remaining factory front wheel well panel. Rather than removing the entire edge as we did for the left side of this panel, we opened up the spot weld removal holes and welded in stainless washers that we will use for plug welds. While is will provide a stainless to stainless weld, there is still overlap in the overall lap that is stainless to carbon, so in retrospect, we could have gone further.
We then removed the upper inch or so of the remaining factory carbon steel front wheel well panel, so we could butt weld the new stainless top wheel well panel to it.
Not many in this series - we jump from the above to a finished wheel well.
We then removed the upper inch or so of the remaining factory carbon steel front wheel well panel, so we could butt weld the new stainless top wheel well panel to it.
Not many in this series - we jump from the above to a finished wheel well.
Maybe you have mentioned this, what equipment are you using for the stainless welds?
psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #135
Hello @knuckle47.
In almost all welds where stainless has been involved, whether stainless to carbon or stainless to stainless, we have used the MIG, with .030 309LSi filler and Tri-mix gas. And in case you are asking about the actually welder, it is a Millermatic 185, transformer-based MIG.
In several welds we used TIG, with 1/16th ER308, or no filler, using Argon gas. Several of the washers that we installed above were welded to the surrounding carbon with the TIG using Argon gas and no filler, and the final stainless to stainless plug weld was done with MIG, using the .030 309LSi and trimix. The "no filler" washer welds were an exception - more a test - to see if we were able to get a flush surface weld that would require almost no finishing work. And in the end, we either went back over them with the TIG, but using filler, or touched them up with the MIG when performing the plug weld. We also welded in the nuts on the rear sill using TIG and no filler, back in post #84.
And the TIG is a Miller 200 DX.
In almost all welds where stainless has been involved, whether stainless to carbon or stainless to stainless, we have used the MIG, with .030 309LSi filler and Tri-mix gas. And in case you are asking about the actually welder, it is a Millermatic 185, transformer-based MIG.
In several welds we used TIG, with 1/16th ER308, or no filler, using Argon gas. Several of the washers that we installed above were welded to the surrounding carbon with the TIG using Argon gas and no filler, and the final stainless to stainless plug weld was done with MIG, using the .030 309LSi and trimix. The "no filler" washer welds were an exception - more a test - to see if we were able to get a flush surface weld that would require almost no finishing work. And in the end, we either went back over them with the TIG, but using filler, or touched them up with the MIG when performing the plug weld. We also welded in the nuts on the rear sill using TIG and no filler, back in post #84.
And the TIG is a Miller 200 DX.
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psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #136
Driver's Side Factory Wheel Well Prep
Now that we have the passenger side front wheel well ready for the rest of the panels to be installed, let's move onto the Driver's side wheel well panel prep. This work will be similar to that work done on the passenger side, but rather than using the washers as plug weld surfaces, we will completely replace both outer and inner edges.
And now we can start to bring the rear of the tub back together, installing the wheel well and quarter panels.
Now that we have the passenger side front wheel well ready for the rest of the panels to be installed, let's move onto the Driver's side wheel well panel prep. This work will be similar to that work done on the passenger side, but rather than using the washers as plug weld surfaces, we will completely replace both outer and inner edges.
And now we can start to bring the rear of the tub back together, installing the wheel well and quarter panels.
psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #137
The pics and progress in this thread to date have generally be focused on panels or specific areas, somewhat in isolation. This was done hoping to best convey a clear understanding of how the panel / area was built. And while in many cases, the progress above also reflected actual chronology, this is not always the case. And as an example of this, we only took one side of the rear apart at a time. We did this to preserve tub rigidity and trueness, at least as much as possible.
Also, before removing any of the larger panels from the rear of the tub, we took our time to get the 40 frame and rear floor sitting level from side-to-side and front-to-back. This was a little challenging in that our suspension is also a little wonky. We then used levels and squares, and measured everything multiple times. We also reinstalled the rear ambulance doors many times to check fitment, squareness, and confirmed the rear opening dimensions, not just through measurements, but by proving that the ambulance doors still fit and had good gaps, closure, and alignment.
And while putting large areas back together, we started with clamps and vice grips, sometimes a few screws, and even duct tape as we final-fit the panel before final weld and installation. We even used a come along to hold the rear opening from spreading and wood to hold pieces in place and square.
Then when we were happy, we would start with spot welds, check all measurements again, and slowly move forward.
Now, let's fall back just a little, and put together the passenger side wheel well and quarter panel.
Below, we intentionally left the top front factory wheel well panel long. This provided a good stable mounting service that we could bolt through as we test fit the wheel well and quarter panels. This will later be trimmed so the two panels can be butt welded together.
If you look closely below, you will see that the screw is obstructed by the top / horizontal wheel well panel. This was not a design feature, but an oversight that cropped up after we redesigned the area, but failed to update all of our drawings. We will build a work-around below.
You will notice in the below pic that we needed to cut three slices in the rear sill extension to slightly tighten the radius. The change in radius was minor, but this now fit tighter than before.
The next two pics show the work-around for the bolt / horizontal wheel well obstruction. We're not loving it, but we couldn't come up with a better solution and it is hidden behind the upright. In the first pic below, we need to remove more metal from the panel so the new nut assembly will drop in a little deeper for proper alignment with the bolt.
Still not done, but more soon.
Also, before removing any of the larger panels from the rear of the tub, we took our time to get the 40 frame and rear floor sitting level from side-to-side and front-to-back. This was a little challenging in that our suspension is also a little wonky. We then used levels and squares, and measured everything multiple times. We also reinstalled the rear ambulance doors many times to check fitment, squareness, and confirmed the rear opening dimensions, not just through measurements, but by proving that the ambulance doors still fit and had good gaps, closure, and alignment.
And while putting large areas back together, we started with clamps and vice grips, sometimes a few screws, and even duct tape as we final-fit the panel before final weld and installation. We even used a come along to hold the rear opening from spreading and wood to hold pieces in place and square.
Then when we were happy, we would start with spot welds, check all measurements again, and slowly move forward.
Now, let's fall back just a little, and put together the passenger side wheel well and quarter panel.
Below, we intentionally left the top front factory wheel well panel long. This provided a good stable mounting service that we could bolt through as we test fit the wheel well and quarter panels. This will later be trimmed so the two panels can be butt welded together.
If you look closely below, you will see that the screw is obstructed by the top / horizontal wheel well panel. This was not a design feature, but an oversight that cropped up after we redesigned the area, but failed to update all of our drawings. We will build a work-around below.
You will notice in the below pic that we needed to cut three slices in the rear sill extension to slightly tighten the radius. The change in radius was minor, but this now fit tighter than before.
The next two pics show the work-around for the bolt / horizontal wheel well obstruction. We're not loving it, but we couldn't come up with a better solution and it is hidden behind the upright. In the first pic below, we need to remove more metal from the panel so the new nut assembly will drop in a little deeper for proper alignment with the bolt.
Still not done, but more soon.
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psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #138
Referring back to the last two pics in the above post, this is another place where the flange nuts came in handy. I happened to have some stainless tube whose ID was a very good fit for the nut. This new "nut assembly" is how we got around the bolt to wheel well panel interference. In the last pic below, we used the TIG without a filler rod, basically using the flange of the nut as filler.
psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #139
Now that we have final-fit all of the passenger panels related to the wheel well and quarter panel, we remove everything and start the final install of each of these panels, starting with the vertical wheel well panel. We use stainless bolts and panel adhesive to mount the vertical panel to the now stainless rear floor edge. And as noted near the top of this thread, the panel adhesive, in this stainless to stainless lap joint, is used as a caulk and to provide an additional strength.
We don't have any pics of the panel adhesive being applied prior to installation in this case, but you can see it in the joint in the second and third pics below.
Next, we installed the top wheel well panel, and also clamped the quarter panel in place to be certain that the fitment was again just right.
And here the wheel well panels are installed and we need to start prepping for the quarter panel install.
We don't have any pics of the panel adhesive being applied prior to installation in this case, but you can see it in the joint in the second and third pics below.
Next, we installed the top wheel well panel, and also clamped the quarter panel in place to be certain that the fitment was again just right.
And here the wheel well panels are installed and we need to start prepping for the quarter panel install.
psmbfuer
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- Thread starter
- #140
Before installing the quarter, we applied several layers of SEM Rust Trap to the lap joint of the skeleton. We then clamped the quarter in placed again and used the plug weld holes along the top edge to mark the exact plug weld locations with a metal paint marker. After making these marks, we removed the quarter panel and carefully ground off the paint at these marks, so we could reinstall the quarter and weld it in place.
Some may be wondering, why we didn't use panel adhesive rather than paint on the skeleton lap matting surface for the quarter panel. This was a tough call and our preference was to use panel adhesive, and someone more experienced might have, but the quarter panel is somewhat awkward to handle and we were concerned that we would smear the panel adhesive into the plug weld areas duing install, making a mess that would be difficult to clean for welding within the panel adhesive working time window.
Below shows the painted surface and the paint mark spots for the plug welds.
Now the paint marks ground to steel for the plug welds.
Again, double checking that final fitment before starting to weld.
Below are the plug welds. After this, we used a wire wheel and cleaned the seam of paint and then started the seam welding in the next pic.
And rather than weld the entire seam at once, we iteratively welded, ground, and again welded to help control the heat and reduce / eliminate potential warpage.
And at long last, the passenger side is back together!
Some may be wondering, why we didn't use panel adhesive rather than paint on the skeleton lap matting surface for the quarter panel. This was a tough call and our preference was to use panel adhesive, and someone more experienced might have, but the quarter panel is somewhat awkward to handle and we were concerned that we would smear the panel adhesive into the plug weld areas duing install, making a mess that would be difficult to clean for welding within the panel adhesive working time window.
Below shows the painted surface and the paint mark spots for the plug welds.
Now the paint marks ground to steel for the plug welds.
Again, double checking that final fitment before starting to weld.
Below are the plug welds. After this, we used a wire wheel and cleaned the seam of paint and then started the seam welding in the next pic.
And rather than weld the entire seam at once, we iteratively welded, ground, and again welded to help control the heat and reduce / eliminate potential warpage.
And at long last, the passenger side is back together!
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