1958 vs taco trdOR
- Thread starter WRBWRX
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- lexus gx taco vehicle tech vs
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An unusual part of this situation is that the lc250 doesn't get better suspension. The shocks on the TRD OR, pro, trail hunter, and possibly limited are all better than what comes on the lc250. Why isn't it at least coming with the equivalent of the TRD OR model? And really why not the Fox or OME stuff. Kinda bummer at $55k to still need another $3-5k in shocks to match up with the Tacoma. Especially on the higher trims.
I wouldn't be surprised if they released a TRD or Trailhunter edition at a later time...can't launch all your easter eggs at once?
I also suspect Toyota figured that many purists will take the base LC250 and start to immediately add lifts, suspension, etc...why make them buy a 2500 upgrade to only rip them right off?
Not sure where to put this comment, but it feels like the GX550 is a better vehicle than the LX600 in every way except the ultra-luxury accoutrements options.
I also suspect Toyota figured that many purists will take the base LC250 and start to immediately add lifts, suspension, etc...why make them buy a 2500 upgrade to only rip them right off?
Not sure where to put this comment, but it feels like the GX550 is a better vehicle than the LX600 in every way except the ultra-luxury accoutrements options.
I agree, it does seem that way. I keep wondering why anyone would buy the LX600 now except the rich doctor moms I see at my kid's school that just want the top of the line everything in life to make up for their husbands never being around and having to raise the damn kids alone.
I can see your point on that. I think the TRD OR version of the 4Runner was similar in that it has all the important stuff that you wouldn't replace and KDSS that would be extremely expensive to replicate aftermarket, but just basic shocks and tires that you're going to throw away anyway. It's kinda the builder's version vs the OEM solution. I guess I'm thinking more that at the $55k price point you're getting a Tacoma SUV but less equipped than a similarly priced Tacoma. Once they all become different flavors of the same vehicle the price and feature comparison starts to favor the Tacoma and probably 4Runner depending on what it ends up being.
I'm with you on the GX550 vs LX. I think the LX is going to be very hard to sell when you put it next to a GX550 and TX500h on the floor and across the street is a Sequoia Capstone. I'm sure the LX is a very well built nice SUV. But you'd have to have a very specific niche need to pay $30k more.
The Limited trim Taco will have a lockable, limited-slip Torsen center differential. The Limited trim has full-time 4WD, which is an advantage if you are driving on slippery roads. When you lock the center diff, it will behave like a part-time system -- that is, the front and rear driveshafts will turn at the same speed. I believe that the front and rear diffs on the Limited trim are open diffs. My question for you is do you really need a locking rear diff? If you are asking yourself that question, I suspect that the answer is that you don't.
The other trims of the Taco will have a part-time system, which means you will be in RWD on the road. It is a cheaper, simpler system, and might give slightly improved fuel economy on the road when compared to a full-time 4WD system.
In terms of the comparison of off-road capability between a Taco and the 250, I think the most important difference might be the difference in wheelbase. The 250 will have a 112" wheelbase. In contrast, the 4-door Taco has a wheelbase that ranges from 131 to 145". That's a huge difference which you will feel both offroad and anytime you are in a tight parking lot.
I feel like the LX is for people who got tired of their XC90 or Range Rover being in the shop all the time.
It also doesn’t have the small rear doors, making it harder to get things out of the back.
Intriguing that the 4x4 limited Tacoma is rated at 20/23/20 mpg which is HIGHER than the 4x4 trd or/sport 19/23/20 (automatic, 4x4, iForce)
Also of note the transfer case is 2.57:1 vs 2.64:1 of the tundra/sequioa Tnga-f vehicles. And Final drive is 3.583, vs 3.31 on tundra. (4.30 on MT)
Also of note the transfer case is 2.57:1 vs 2.64:1 of the tundra/sequioa Tnga-f vehicles. And Final drive is 3.583, vs 3.31 on tundra. (4.30 on MT)
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That’s something I didn’t look at was the drive ratios between the limed with the full time vs LC. The only reason I would look at the limited would be for the all wheel drive. As stated by others I know it’s not needed but I’ve lived with it long enough with the WRX that I like it better. When locked up or situations where u are appt to use 4x4 will the two systems differ greatly? To be honest there isn’t much that I would want more in the 1954 model. All the trucks I’ve driven are old school bouncy light rear ended and never gave me much confidence in normal driving. I’ve aged and no longer need the quickness of a sport car but I’m not a right lane driver.
Transfer makes sense. The Tundra/Sequoia use a BorgWarner unit that has very large internal parts. I don't think Aisin has a transfer case large enough for the durability requirements of the tundra/sequoia with the higher tow rating and hybrid power. The old Tundra shared internals with the F250/350 is my understanding from a teardown of them. The new one is one incremental size bigger than the F250/350 uses internally and moved from a 4 gear planetary low range to a 6 gear planetary setup. It's huge compared to the Land Cruiser and Tacoma stuff. TBH it seems overkill to me. But that's how Toyota rolls.
I have the old BW transfer case in my Tundra. Shifts fast, no issues, only complaint is that it uses a different oil fill and drain plug than either the rear or front diff. So when you change all 3 gear oils you have to have a large socket for the rear diff, a smaller socket and 1/2 drive socket end for the transfer case drain and fill plugs, and then a large (12mm?) allen key for the front diff. Would be cool if they were all the same tool to make life a little easier.
I have the old BW transfer case in my Tundra. Shifts fast, no issues, only complaint is that it uses a different oil fill and drain plug than either the rear or front diff. So when you change all 3 gear oils you have to have a large socket for the rear diff, a smaller socket and 1/2 drive socket end for the transfer case drain and fill plugs, and then a large (12mm?) allen key for the front diff. Would be cool if they were all the same tool to make life a little easier.
When locked they are exactly the same functionally. I think they use the same parts for most of internals except for the awd gear set. I'd have to look closely at a parts diagram to figure out for sure. Whatever the case - locked they are the same. In challenging terrain where you'd have the transfer case locked - they both will perform equally. Want to bomb down a washboard gravel road at high speed? - it'll be pretty much the same experience in 4hi vs awd.
You can drive the non-awd in 4wd on any surface at any time without damage. It's just an issue for scrubbing on tight turns and tire wear, etc on the highway. It won't hurt it though. You could lock it in 4hi the day you buy it and never put in 2wd and you'd never wear out the components. You probably won't love driving anywhere that requires sharp turns. And I don't recommend it. But it won't actually break anything. If it did - you'd never get away with 4wheel burnouts on rock faces and all the other shenanigans we do in Moab or other places. In mixed slippery conditions you can just toss it in 4wd and go.
The Limited has highway tires, while the OR has all-terrain tires. I believe that the OR also has a bit of a lift, which would also increase aerodynamic drag.
so if the 6th gen 4runner again comes with a limited trim with full time 4wd. it will have the exact same drive train as the LC250, built in Japan at the same factory, and have the same frame/platform? I wonder if it would be cheaper, if so that will be my next vehicle
I don't have any special insight, but I'm guessing the 4R will have the non-hybrid T4, so that will probably be a good bit cheaper if that's the one you want. The limited awd with the hybrid would be pretty darn similar to the LC250 if they are the same size. That's still confusing for me how they differentiate the two products if they end up being almost the same thing. But a 4Runner Limited is $52k now, so it's just a stone throw from a base LC250 and if they bump around $3k for the new model then they're super close in price. But the LC would have the rear locker and sway disconnect where the Limited 4R probably has neither. It starts to get pretty blurry between them all.
That’s a big question — how the 4Runner will be distinguished from the 250.
When you put a part-time 4WD vehicle in 4WD, the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed. When you lock the Torsen center diff on a full time 4WD vehicle, the front and rear driveshafts turn at the same speed, just like a part-time system. So the difference off-road between the two systems is less than you might think.
The bigger difference off-road, IMO, is going to be the angles and turning radius. But the important question is what sort of off-roading are you going to be doing? Are you talking taking it out on the beach (which you could probably manage with a Forester) or are you talking difficult trails at Moab? As for the rear locker, you can always add a locking rear diff in the future if you find you really need it.
The new Taco has coil springs in the rear in all the upper trims, which should significantly improve the ride. I expect the Limited trim to have a better ride due to the adaptive shocks.
As a bit of a follow up on the Tacoma vs LC250 or maybe just good information about the two products - the TRD OR tacoma is really impressive to me with the base suspension and features. This is the first video or pictures i've seen of the internals of the new suspension that has monotube multi-stage damping with reservoirs, the disconnect sway bar, and more good info about the rear end. The Toyota engineer confirms that the rear axle is the same diff as the tundra.
In another video they talk about how the front CVs are re-designed on the TRD OR and up models to handle something like 31 degrees of angle with full torque of the hybrid system so they had to re-engineer the CV internals to get an extra 4 inches of travel. I assume it all also applies to the LC250. All of that is pretty great to me!
I'm not sure how much of an expert the youtube personality doing the interview is, but I do think he's right that the new TRD OR tacoma is probably as good if not better than the outgoing TRD Pro. I think it might actually be functional price drop for the new TRD OR if you compare it to the old TRD Pro that it is likely better than. The more I see about the Tacoma, the more I'm impressed by the upgrades they did.
In another video they talk about how the front CVs are re-designed on the TRD OR and up models to handle something like 31 degrees of angle with full torque of the hybrid system so they had to re-engineer the CV internals to get an extra 4 inches of travel. I assume it all also applies to the LC250. All of that is pretty great to me!
I'm not sure how much of an expert the youtube personality doing the interview is, but I do think he's right that the new TRD OR tacoma is probably as good if not better than the outgoing TRD Pro. I think it might actually be functional price drop for the new TRD OR if you compare it to the old TRD Pro that it is likely better than. The more I see about the Tacoma, the more I'm impressed by the upgrades they did.
It'll be interesting to see how aggressive the torque management is. 465ft lbs at low rpm would make it real easy to break stuff without some electronic nannies.
You going to be taking your 250 through the rubicon?
This sub is awful quiet today....
