150K mile PM

[bloc]

Upper hose 2x
96136-54801

Lower hose 1 each:
90467-43002
96136-54801

Note that my numbers may be superseded by new ones, but that will come up when searching on any parts site.

 

[linuxgod]

I was thinking about that last night after I posted and had read your prior post on this topic. I started trying to find the part numbers but was having some trouble as the descriptions for the part numbers aren't quite clear. Here is what I found on the EB Toyota site:

Lower,Upper Radiator Hose Clamp (at radiator)	90466-A0026	7.25​
Lower Radiator Hose Clamp	90467-43002	5.19​

I'll probably just call my local dealer and tell them what I'm looking for.

You need 4 clamps, IIRC. Top and bottom at the radiator and at the engine/water pump. 3 of the first, 1 of the second. Dealer invoice below...

2008-2018 Radiator Failure and Public Service Announcement

I guess the issue isnt necessarily the cost or even effort that it takes to replace. It’s not knowing when it’s going to fail. It’s not a wear item, we all go through all the effort to bulletproof our vehicles, but at the end of the day we don’t know when that thing is going pop. All that said...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[kcjaz]

Upper hose 2x
96136-54801

Lower hose 1 each:
90467-43002
96136-54801

Note that my numbers may be superseded by new ones, but that will come up when searching on any parts site.

thanks. 96136-54801 has been SS and is now 90466-A0026. As I'll be over $600 and a chunk of time into this, another $27 on new OEM hose clamps seems like a no-brainer, even if it really isn't necessary. its called PREVENTIVE maintenance for a reason...

Upper hose (x2)	90466-A0026	7.25​	2​	14.50​	was 96136-54801
Lower Radiator Hose Clamp x1	90467-43002	5.19​	1​	5.19​
Lower Radiator Hose Clamp x1	90466-A0026	7.25​	1​	7.25​

 

[kcjaz]

You need 4 clamps, IIRC. Top and bottom at the radiator and at the engine/water pump. 3 of the first, 1 of the second. Dealer invoice below...

2008-2018 Radiator Failure and Public Service Announcement

I guess the issue isnt necessarily the cost or even effort that it takes to replace. It’s not knowing when it’s going to fail. It’s not a wear item, we all go through all the effort to bulletproof our vehicles, but at the end of the day we don’t know when that thing is going pop. All that said...

forum.ih8mud.com

View attachment 2513320

yep. should have updated my screen before I just posted. Thanks!

 

[kcjaz]

Now that I am back in the same place as my truck, I'm looking at this project and making my plan of attack. In looking through the FSM, it appears that I can replace the things I'm planning on (water pump, hoses, serpentine belt, idler, fan pulley bracket, and maybe alternator) without removing the radiator. However, I am wondering if just removing the radiator would be worth it for better access and making everything else more accessible and easier to work on.

 

[stonepa]

You are driving a properly maintained LC 200. These are built to run well for decades with little maintenance, let alone the need to carry around a bunch of spare parts. This isn’t a Land Rover. Get out there an enjoy it.

 

[bloc]

Now that I am back in the same place as my truck, I'm looking at this project and making my plan of attack. In looking through the FSM, it appears that I can replace the things I'm planning on (water pump, hoses, serpentine belt, idler, fan pulley bracket, and maybe alternator) without removing the radiator. However, I am wondering if just removing the radiator would be worth it for better access and making everything else more accessible and easier to work on.

You’ll have 90% of the work done to pull the radiator, and doing so would get you another 2.5” or so in a pretty tight spot. I’d do it, personally. By that point it’s just the four mounting bolts, the lower hose, and the trans cooler lines.

 

[Lester did that]

Just pull the radiator. That extra space is going to make your life simple. It's going to give you the space to check the rest of the work you have done. You won't be at some weird angle. It's already torn apart.

 

[linuxgod]

I'd pull the radiator to get the free space.

I tried to do the belt and tensioner myself but I couldn't get a good enough angle to rock the tensioner forward sufficiently to slip a drill bit in the hole to hold it in place when accessing from the top. It was a seriously tight fit. I could reach it easily from the bottom but I needed more leverage than my socket wrench cold give me, and from underneath my cheater bar was too long without putting the truck on jack stands.

(I had a few other things to deal with around the house so ultimately I caved and my local guy did the belt/tensioner swap in under an hour. Figured it was worth paying him and focusing on house repairs than doing it and paying someone else to deal with the house stuff.)

 

[kcjaz]

Yeah, if you look closely that upper tank and flat area doesn't look like any of the OEM radiators in the big public service thread. I'm betting it's aftermarket.. which kinda leaves it up in the air as to whether it should be done as PM. How long ago was that deer strike? If that rad is 50k or something I wouldn't bother. But, the new-design OEM radiator is pretty cheap, and you'll be 90% of the way there with the other work it sounds like you have planned.

You asked in a PM about my comment for "dry" bearings vs new, I figure answering here could help some more people out.

See the video in this thread I started about fan bearing bracket:

Fan support bracket & bearing - with high mileage check yours

forum.ih8mud.com

Basically, new bearings with a full load of grease and tight tolerances will be super smooth, but when spun will feel like they have fluid resistance. Just like you can imagine the heavy grease in the ball bearings swishing around, slowing the spin of that new bearing.. but it doesn't grind, or have a metal feel to that drag. "fluid" is the best way I can describe it.

With age and the millions of revolutions these things see, the grease will slowly become slung out, or the VOC's evaporate out, and you are left with less grease in there, and what remains is pushed out of the areas it can do any good. Spin a well-worn bearing and it will just free-wheel like there is no resistance what-so-ever. This can be well before you start hearing grinding, screeching.. see any play.. but it is a sign a 150k mile bearing should be replaced unless you want to get back in there in the next few ten thousand miles.

In truth this is a "feel" judgement call, and plenty of experience wrenching on cars helps. But my thought is if you have the whole front of the engine taken apart doing a few of the parts, if the others are 80% through their life cycle, and not $500 each, I usually just throw the full list of parts at it and can be confident I have another 100-150k before I have to think about any of that stuff again.

Congrats on the DD.. I had to do the same. And even with that I put more miles on the cruiser (with 75%+ of it's use being trips) than the DD.

Good call @bloc on the dry bearings. Compared the old fan bracket bearing to the new one today. The old one just spins and the new one definitely has more resistance and feels "greased packed." Its a very noticeable difference side by side and now I know what "new" feels like. Thanks!

 

[bloc]

Good call @bloc on the dry bearings. Compared the old fan bracket bearing to the new one today. The old one just spins and the new one definitely has more resistance and feels "greased packed." Its a very noticeable difference side by side and now I know what "new" feels like. Thanks!

Any time!

 

[kcjaz]

Any time!

Paging @bloc its time again . I can't see how to remove the fan bracket without removing the bolt that holds the hard oil cooler tubes that go to the cooler. I just loosened that bolt thinking I could push the tubes out of the way enough but I can't get the bottom bolt of the fan bracket to clear the hard tubes. I've got it completely loose but I can't pull the tubes back enough to get it out of its hole. I'm afraid to completely remove the hard tube bracket because getting to it is almost impossible and as it backs out it is getting close to the compressor. Its gear wrench trap if I'm not careful. The only other thing I can think if is unbolting the AC compressor to get better access. How did you do this?

 

[bloc]

Paging @bloc its time again . I can't see how to remove the fan bracket without removing the bolt that holds the hard oil cooler tubes that go to the cooler. I just loosened that bolt thinking I could push the tubes out of the way enough but I can't get the bottom bolt of the fan bracket to clear the hard tubes. I've got it completely loose but I can't pull the tubes back enough to get it out of its hole. I'm afraid to completely remove the hard tube bracket because getting to it is almost impossible and as it backs out it is getting close to the compressor. Its gear wrench trap if I'm not careful. The only other thing I can think if is unbolting the AC compressor to get better access. How did you do this?

View attachment 2549419

I ended up loosening the bolts holding the AC compressor on to slide it over and make room. I seem to remember someone else removing the compressor pulley as it was easier to get to, but don’t do that without searching. I’m really fuzzy on exactly what they did

 

[kcjaz]

I ended up loosening the bolts holding the AC compressor on to slide it over and make room. I seem to remember someone else removing the compressor pulley as it was easier to get to, but don’t do that without searching. I’m really fuzzy on exactly what they did

Taking off the compressor clutch and pulley and clutch is easy and quick. There is a thread on that was helpful.

 

[kcjaz]

Got the new PS pump this week (several weeks delay due to USPS issues at local distribution center) and put it in yesterday. I'm pretty sure that the PS fluid was the original fill as it was yellowish brown in color (not red). That's on me for never changing it. Hopefully 150k on the original fluid hasn't caused issues in the steering linkage itself. The pump itself seemed completely fine. It is re-buildable and would be cheaper to rebuild than buying a new one. That said, just swapping a part is easier. I had drained most of the fluid with the disassembly and I flushed the whole system with Dexron VI and bled the air out of it it by just temporarily putting the return to the reservoir to a bucket and repeatedly filling the reservoir (need to plug the return hose barb on the reservoir) and then turning the steering wheel left and right. until I had nice clean Dexron coming from the return hose.

 

[kcjaz]

I plan on putting the radiator back today. In removing it, I lost some amount of transmission fluid but I do not know how much. Probably less than 1/2 a quart. My lesson learned here is that I should have made an effort to collect and measure the AFT I was loosing. If I had, I would have some idea how much to put back and then check by removing the level check plug after getting the tranny to the right temperature. So my question is how best to proceed to get the ATF level correct? Options I see are:

1. Button it all back up w/o adding any fluid. Start the truck and get the AFT to the correct temp then remove the level check plug and pump in new ATF until I get it to start draining from the check plug hole. How bad is running with the fluid level a little low? I doubt 1/2 quart low is a problem form the amount of time I'd be running the truck.

2. Add 1/2 a quart now and then fire up the truck and check the level hoping to get a small amount of fluid to come out the check plug hole. I'd likely be over filling but don't really know. How bad is overfilling by less than 1/2 a quart?

3. As, an alternate to #2 I could open the check plug with tranny cold and add fluid until I get a little to come out the level check hole. This would assure I have "too much" ATF fluid in the system. Then run the truck until the ATF temp is right and and drain the excess from the level check hole.

My inclination is #3 . I just don't know how much fluid is too much and how much the ATF expands going from 45F (cold in the shop) to 140F (or whatever the spec temp is). As I type this, I realize I can probably do that math. There has got to be a ATF density vs. temp chart out table out there somewhere. I'll check and update.

edit: Found this via Google. ATF density. the magic temp is 41 to 46 C. So from the density table I'll be seeing about a 3% change in density. Assuming 12 liter total capacity (need t verify that number) I'd be looking at 0.35 liters (0.38 quarts) "overfill" if I fill it cold. I got to think that is not a problem as the tranny can and does operate hotter than than. So I'm planning on #3.

Another idea occurs to me that maybe I could connect a hose to the check level hole and run the truck letting the fluid drain out the hole as the tranny heats up. Over thinking? yeah, that's just what I do...

 

[linuxgod]

I plan on putting the radiator back today. In removing it, I lost some amount of transmission fluid but I do not know how much. Probably less than 1/2 a quart. My lesson learned here is that I should have made an effort to collect and measure the AFT I was loosing. If I had, I would have some idea how much to put back and then check by removing the level check plug after getting the tranny to the right temperature. So my question is how best to proceed to get the ATF level correct? Options I see are:

1. Button it all back up w/o adding any fluid. Start the truck and get the AFT to the correct temp then remove the level check plug and pump in new ATF until I get it to start draining from the check plug hole. How bad is running with the fluid level a little low? I doubt 1/2 quart low is a problem form the amount of time I'd be running the truck.

2. Add 1/2 a quart now and then fire up the truck and check the level hoping to get a small amount of fluid to come out the check plug hole. I'd likely be over filling but don't really know. How bad is overfilling by less than 1/2 a quart?

3. As, an alternate to #2 I could open the check plug with tranny cold and add fluid until I get a little to come out the level check hole. This would assure I have "too much" ATF fluid in the system. Then run the truck until the ATF temp is right and and drain the excess from the level check hole.

My inclination is #3 . I just don't know how much fluid is too much and how much the ATF expands going from 45F (cold in the shop) to 140F (or whatever the spec temp is). As I type this, I realize I can probably do that math. There has got to be a ATF density vs. temp chart out table out there somewhere. I'll check and update.

edit: Found this via Google. ATF density. the magic temp is 41 to 46 C. So from the density table I'll be seeing about a 3% change in density. Assuming 12 liter total capacity (need t verify that number) I'd be looking at 0.35 liters (0.38 quarts) "overfill" if I fill it cold. I got to think that is not a problem as the tranny can and does operate hotter than than. So I'm planning on #3.

Another idea occurs to me that maybe I could connect a hose to the check level hole and run the truck letting the fluid drain out the hole as the tranny heats up. Over thinking? yeah, that's just what I do...

My $0.02 - if you're sitting in P then running it a little low until it warms should be fine, since the TC is not engaged.

Alternately, insert a paperclip in the AT thermostat so that it opens up right away, then top it off... no need to wait until it reaches operating temp

 

[kcjaz]

My $0.02 - if you're sitting in P then running it a little low until it warms should be fine, since the TC is not engaged.

Alternately, insert a paperclip in the AT thermostat so that it opens up right away, then top it off... no need to wait until it reaches operating temp

I saw some video that mentioned opening the tstat. In my mind though it is the "swelling" of the oil as it gets hot more than it is the fact that I've really just lost fluid from the cooler side. Ultimately you need both the right temp and the tstat open to get the right level. If you force the tstat open when its really cold and then top off, you will be overfilled.

Bottom line is that I really wonder if plus or minus a 1/2 quart out of 12.6 matters at all if all I am doing is running the engine until the ATF is 41-46 C and then shifting through all the gears with my foot on the break. My gut tells me it doesn't matter but I'm also the guy with a new transmission in a 2013 LC because I learned that when all the fluid leaks out, really bad things happen. So somewhere between 0 and 12.6 qt low, a line is crossed.

Really I would just like to know what others, who have replaced their radiator, have done.

 

[linuxgod]

The dealer did my radiator and to my knowledge they captured the original fluid and added it back in when they were done. I say "to my knowledge" because they didn't charge me to top it off. (So there's my answer to your last sentence, but it's likely not helpful to you)

Two things:

1. In my experience, normal operating temp of the AT is ~195F, which is about 90C. I don't know if AT fluid continues to "swell" as it continues to warm up though. If it does than it's a lot different between cold start (it was 15F outside this weekend) vs normal operating temp.

2. The above is irrelevant in terms of fill level though because the FSM says the fluid temp should be between 109F (43C) and 118F (48C) when checking the level.

Side note: The FSM says you should do the thermostat bypass when doing the fill procedure, so I'd go with what Toyota says there. Even if the pan level is correct, it'll likely drop once you start cycling the gears, but the thermostat won't open until it's 80C/176F IIRC which would prevent you from pushing fluid through the hoses and into the radiator.

 

[bloc]

Toyota probably wants the thermostat open so all of the fluid gets to measurement temp, not just part of it. If the stuff in the cooling loop stays cold while level is checked with the rest, once the cooling loop opens now that fluid will warm as well and the result is the overall level being higher than intended.