150K mile PM (8 Viewers)

kcjaz

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So I'm at 150K miles on my 2013 200. I'm the second owner and bought it in 2015 with about 40K miles. I've done all of the recommended maintenance stuff and before I owned it, it was dealer maintained but am wondering if it would be worth it to replace the water pump, hoses and belts just to preempt an issue on the road or trail. The belt and hoses all look OK. I've also thought about just carrying these parts with me so I have them if/when I need them. Soliciting opinions on this. Anything else I should go through to inspect and/or replace?
 
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So I'm at 150K miles on my 2013 200. I'm the second owner and bought it in 2015 with about 40K miles. I've done all of the recommended maintenance stuff and before I owned it, it was dealer maintained but am wondering if it would be worth it to replace the water pump, hoses and belts just to preempt an issue on the road or trail. The belt and hoses all look OK. I've also thought about just carrying these parts with me so I have them if/when I need them. Soliciting opinions on this. Anything else I should go through to inspect and/or replace?
I replaced all of the above when I had my radiator done, due to the “crack” at 90k. ‘13 here as well. Sitting at 120k currently. Travel with a starter on long road trips. Need replace that soon.
 

RET2

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So I'm at 150K miles on my 2013 200. I'm the second owner and bought it in 2015 with about 40K miles. I've done all of the recommended maintenance stuff and before I owned it, it was dealer maintained but am wondering if it would be worth it to replace the water pump, hoses and belts just to preempt an issue on the road or trail. The belt and hoses all look OK. I've also thought about just carrying these parts with me so I have them if/when I need them. Soliciting opinions on this. Anything else I should go through to inspect and/or replace?
You might consider adding radiator, belt tensioner and starter to your list.
 

kcjaz

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You might consider adding radiator, belt tensioner and starter to your list.
I was not thinking I need to worry about the radiator because I have a 2013. For some reason, I thought the "radiator issue" was for pre-2013 and my radiator doesn't have the markings on the flat spot so I thought I had the "new" one. In reading through the "radiator issue" threads, I think I am wrong about this. Still, I don't see any evidence of any crack developing. How can you tell for sure what radiator you have? There is a number on the far side that is PA66-GF35. I googled that it I get Toyota radiator hits but I still can't tell which one I have.

Rad1.jpg


I do have a leak at the hose connection though:
Leak.jpg
 
Last edited:

40Man

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I was not thinking I need to worry about the radiator because I have a 2013. For some reason, I thought the "radiator issue" was for pre-2013 and my radiator doesn't have the markings on the flat spot so I thought I had the "new" one. In reading through the "radiator issue" threads, I think I am wrong about this. Still, I don't see any evidence of any crack developing. How can you tell for sure what radiator you have? There is a number on the far side that is PA66-GF35. I googled that it I get Toyota radiator hits but I still can't tell which one I have.

View attachment 2497913

I do have a leak at the hose connection though:
View attachment 2497915
That is the old radiator. The new one has a different shape on the raised spot on top. Yours looks good but keep an eye on it!
 

bloc

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That doesn't appear to be an OEM radiator for a landcruiser/LX, though I have no idea why it wouldn't be original if you got it at 40k. Did it have any accident history? You could try looking on the top and bottom tanks for a logo.. or maybe spend some time on rockauto looking through the (small) photos of the broad range they have there to see if you can identify it. If it's not OEM it likely won't have the same crack issue, but then the overall quality could be less too. Hard to say. When you pull your upper hose off, if the outlet isn't dark black like the rest of it, possibly a brown or more mottled tan, it is seeing some age. Same story when you look inside the filler neck.



I disagree on your "hoses look OK" assessment. That lower hose is old, and needs to be replaced. Almost certainly why that leak is present. Consider changing that plastic lower neck too. And if your top hose is original, do it as well. I'd keep the stock spring clamps. They do a very good job even if they are a bit more annoying to operate than screw clamps.

At about 150k I needed a new fan support bearing/bracket. If you are going that far, consider tensioner and idler too.

Can the truck be down for a bit while you have it apart? If so I'd start taking things off and see how they feel, and replace as needed. I'm betting at 150k a lot of your drive pulleys will feel dry and free spinning even if they aren't making noise.

Personally I'd hold off on starter unless you have a habit of spending time in the backcountry where an immobilized vehicle would be dangerous or a huge inconvenience. If it dies in town, it is the same cost (plus a tow) to get it replaced when needed as it would be for PM, and I'm not convinced this is a super common issue anyway.. meaning you might not need to spend the money in the first place.
 

RET2

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That doesn't appear to be an OEM radiator for a landcruiser/LX, though I have no idea why it wouldn't be original if you got it at 40k. Did it have any accident history? You could try looking on the top and bottom tanks for a logo.. or maybe spend some time on rockauto looking through the (small) photos of the broad range they have there to see if you can identify it. If it's not OEM it likely won't have the same crack issue, but then the overall quality could be less too. Hard to say. When you pull your upper hose off, if the outlet isn't dark black like the rest of it, possibly a brown or more mottled tan, it is seeing some age. Same story when you look inside the filler neck.



I disagree on your "hoses look OK" assessment. That lower hose is old, and needs to be replaced. Almost certainly why that leak is present. Consider changing that plastic lower neck too. And if your top hose is original, do it as well. I'd keep the stock spring clamps. They do a very good job even if they are a bit more annoying to operate than screw clamps.

At about 150k I needed a new fan support bearing/bracket. If you are going that far, consider tensioner and idler too.

Can the truck be down for a bit while you have it apart? If so I'd start taking things off and see how they feel, and replace as needed. I'm betting at 150k a lot of your drive pulleys will feel dry and free spinning even if they aren't making noise.

Personally I'd hold off on starter unless you have a habit of spending time in the backcountry where an immobilized vehicle would be dangerous or a huge inconvenience. If it dies in town, it is the same cost (plus a tow) to get it replaced when needed as it would be for PM, and I'm not convinced this is a super common issue anyway.. meaning you might not need to spend the money in the first place.
It's a case of risk management and convenience. Having had Mr. Murphy come knocking a couple of times I tend to plan accordingly, that's not to say the best made plans of men and mice....
 

kcjaz

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That doesn't appear to be an OEM radiator for a landcruiser/LX, though I have no idea why it wouldn't be original if you got it at 40k. Did it have any accident history? You could try looking on the top and bottom tanks for a logo.. or maybe spend some time on rockauto looking through the (small) photos of the broad range they have there to see if you can identify it. If it's not OEM it likely won't have the same crack issue, but then the overall quality could be less too. Hard to say. When you pull your upper hose off, if the outlet isn't dark black like the rest of it, possibly a brown or more mottled tan, it is seeing some age. Same story when you look inside the filler neck.



I disagree on your "hoses look OK" assessment. That lower hose is old, and needs to be replaced. Almost certainly why that leak is present. Consider changing that plastic lower neck too. And if your top hose is original, do it as well. I'd keep the stock spring clamps. They do a very good job even if they are a bit more annoying to operate than screw clamps.

At about 150k I needed a new fan support bearing/bracket. If you are going that far, consider tensioner and idler too.

Can the truck be down for a bit while you have it apart? If so I'd start taking things off and see how they feel, and replace as needed. I'm betting at 150k a lot of your drive pulleys will feel dry and free spinning even if they aren't making noise.

Personally I'd hold off on starter unless you have a habit of spending time in the backcountry where an immobilized vehicle would be dangerous or a huge inconvenience. If it dies in town, it is the same cost (plus a tow) to get it replaced when needed as it would be for PM, and I'm not convinced this is a super common issue anyway.. meaning you might not need to spend the money in the first place.
Thanks. I agree about the hoses when I really started looking at it. I need to check the radiator as it is possible it was replaced as part of the front end repair when I hit a deer (pre TJM) though I didn't think they did replace the radiator at that time.

The good thing is that I can take my time to go through it. I now have a Tacoma as my daily driver!!
 

bloc

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Thanks. I agree about the hoses when I really started looking at it. I need to check the radiator as it is possible it was replaced as part of the front end repair when I hit a deer (pre TJM) though I didn't think they did replace the radiator at that time.

The good thing is that I can take my time to go through it. I now have a Tacoma as my daily driver!!
Yeah, if you look closely that upper tank and flat area doesn't look like any of the OEM radiators in the big public service thread. I'm betting it's aftermarket.. which kinda leaves it up in the air as to whether it should be done as PM. How long ago was that deer strike? If that rad is 50k or something I wouldn't bother. But, the new-design OEM radiator is pretty cheap, and you'll be 90% of the way there with the other work it sounds like you have planned.

You asked in a PM about my comment for "dry" bearings vs new, I figure answering here could help some more people out.

See the video in this thread I started about fan bearing bracket:

Basically, new bearings with a full load of grease and tight tolerances will be super smooth, but when spun will feel like they have fluid resistance. Just like you can imagine the heavy grease in the ball bearings swishing around, slowing the spin of that new bearing.. but it doesn't grind, or have a metal feel to that drag. "fluid" is the best way I can describe it.

With age and the millions of revolutions these things see, the grease will slowly become slung out, or the VOC's evaporate out, and you are left with less grease in there, and what remains is pushed out of the areas it can do any good. Spin a well-worn bearing and it will just free-wheel like there is no resistance what-so-ever. This can be well before you start hearing grinding, screeching.. see any play.. but it is a sign a 150k mile bearing should be replaced unless you want to get back in there in the next few ten thousand miles.

In truth this is a "feel" judgement call, and plenty of experience wrenching on cars helps. But my thought is if you have the whole front of the engine taken apart doing a few of the parts, if the others are 80% through their life cycle, and not $500 each, I usually just throw the full list of parts at it and can be confident I have another 100-150k before I have to think about any of that stuff again.

Congrats on the DD.. I had to do the same. And even with that I put more miles on the cruiser (with 75%+ of it's use being trips) than the DD.
 
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Hoses and clamps are cheap. IIRC the dealer charged me about $120 in parts. If that's where it's leaking, replace 'em.

Water pump will give you plenty of notice it's going. Radiator may or may not once the hairline crack starts to form, but if it's still in good shape I wouldn't worry.

Toyota says the clamps are single use and should be replaced when you replace the hoses. You can choose to re-use, up to you, but it's probably $20-30 more to do it right

Starter is apparently a huge PITA to get out, so if it goes on a trail expect to spend half a day fixing it.
 

CharlieS

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I agree that that doesn't look like either the stock early or updated radiators that I've had my hands on or seen online.
 
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Hoses and clamps are cheap. IIRC the dealer charged me about $120 in parts. If that's where it's leaking, replace 'em.

Water pump will give you plenty of notice it's going. Radiator may or may not once the hairline crack starts to form, but if it's still in good shape I wouldn't worry.

Toyota says the clamps are single use and should be replaced when you replace the hoses. You can choose to re-use, up to you, but it's probably $20-30 more to do it right

Starter is apparently a huge PITA to get out, so if it goes on a trail expect to spend half a day fixing it.
What’s your go to dealer in Chicagoland? Trust them?
 
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What’s your go to dealer in Chicagoland? Trust them?
Bredemann Toyota in Park Ridge. I've been very happy with their service. They've had no issues working on my truck despite the mods. Their service prices are reasonable and they've been honest thus far.

Avoid Grossinger in Lincolnwood. At least based on one single experience I had.

YMMV of course.
 

kcjaz

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Yeah, if you look closely that upper tank and flat area doesn't look like any of the OEM radiators in the big public service thread. I'm betting it's aftermarket.. which kinda leaves it up in the air as to whether it should be done as PM. How long ago was that deer strike? If that rad is 50k or something I wouldn't bother. But, the new-design OEM radiator is pretty cheap, and you'll be 90% of the way there with the other work it sounds like you have planned.

You asked in a PM about my comment for "dry" bearings vs new, I figure answering here could help some more people out.

See the video in this thread I started about fan bearing bracket:

Basically, new bearings with a full load of grease and tight tolerances will be super smooth, but when spun will feel like they have fluid resistance. Just like you can imagine the heavy grease in the ball bearings swishing around, slowing the spin of that new bearing.. but it doesn't grind, or have a metal feel to that drag. "fluid" is the best way I can describe it.

With age and the millions of revolutions these things see, the grease will slowly become slung out, or the VOC's evaporate out, and you are left with less grease in there, and what remains is pushed out of the areas it can do any good. Spin a well-worn bearing and it will just free-wheel like there is no resistance what-so-ever. This can be well before you start hearing grinding, screeching.. see any play.. but it is a sign a 150k mile bearing should be replaced unless you want to get back in there in the next few ten thousand miles.

In truth this is a "feel" judgement call, and plenty of experience wrenching on cars helps. But my thought is if you have the whole front of the engine taken apart doing a few of the parts, if the others are 80% through their life cycle, and not $500 each, I usually just throw the full list of parts at it and can be confident I have another 100-150k before I have to think about any of that stuff again.

Congrats on the DD.. I had to do the same. And even with that I put more miles on the cruiser (with 75%+ of it's use being trips) than the DD.
So I found the invoice from the deer strike from December 2018. The radiator was replaced at that time and the part # on the invoice is 1640050384 which I believe is a the Toyota OEM part. I agree it doesn't look like some of the pics I've seen and there are no Toyota markings on it. There is another number on it, PA66-GF35 , but I can't find any info on that. I suppose the repair shop might have bought an aftermarket radiator but but in the OEM for the insurance. Is there really anyway to tell other than the comparing the pictures?

At any rate, I've only put 25K miles on this radiator so I'm not going to replace it now.
 

bloc

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So I found the invoice from the deer strike from December 2018. The radiator was replaced at that time and the part # on the invoice is 1640050384 which I believe is a the Toyota OEM part. I agree it doesn't look like some of the pics I've seen and there are no Toyota markings on it. There is another number on it, PA66-GF35 , but I can't find any info on that. I suppose the repair shop might have bought an aftermarket radiator but but in the OEM for the insurance. Is there really anyway to tell other than the comparing the pictures?

At any rate, I've only put 25K miles on this radiator so I'm not going to replace it now.
PA66-GF35 is a DuPont glass fiber reinforced plastic, so that’s definitely not the radiator part number. Based on the pictures alone I’m 99% confident that is not an OEM part.. those features just look too different from every OEM one I’ve seen. But you are correct.. with so few miles it’s fine.
 

kcjaz

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Yeah, if you look closely that upper tank and flat area doesn't look like any of the OEM radiators in the big public service thread. I'm betting it's aftermarket.. which kinda leaves it up in the air as to whether it should be done as PM. How long ago was that deer strike? If that rad is 50k or something I wouldn't bother. But, the new-design OEM radiator is pretty cheap, and you'll be 90% of the way there with the other work it sounds like you have planned.

You asked in a PM about my comment for "dry" bearings vs new, I figure answering here could help some more people out.

See the video in this thread I started about fan bearing bracket:

Basically, new bearings with a full load of grease and tight tolerances will be super smooth, but when spun will feel like they have fluid resistance. Just like you can imagine the heavy grease in the ball bearings swishing around, slowing the spin of that new bearing.. but it doesn't grind, or have a metal feel to that drag. "fluid" is the best way I can describe it.

With age and the millions of revolutions these things see, the grease will slowly become slung out, or the VOC's evaporate out, and you are left with less grease in there, and what remains is pushed out of the areas it can do any good. Spin a well-worn bearing and it will just free-wheel like there is no resistance what-so-ever. This can be well before you start hearing grinding, screeching.. see any play.. but it is a sign a 150k mile bearing should be replaced unless you want to get back in there in the next few ten thousand miles.

In truth this is a "feel" judgement call, and plenty of experience wrenching on cars helps. But my thought is if you have the whole front of the engine taken apart doing a few of the parts, if the others are 80% through their life cycle, and not $500 each, I usually just throw the full list of parts at it and can be confident I have another 100-150k before I have to think about any of that stuff again.

Congrats on the DD.. I had to do the same. And even with that I put more miles on the cruiser (with 75%+ of it's use being trips) than the DD.
I am about to order parts and will probably just go ahead and replace the idler and tensioner as they are not too expensive. I think I'll wait to decide on the fan pulley bracket until I can spin it to test it like your video (thanks for that) just because its $165.

In looking at the fan and water pump pullies, it looks like there would be no reason to replace them, unless there is some obvious damage, as the bearings are in the fan bracket and water pump. It looks like the fan bracket and water pump do not come with the pullies and you have to buy them separate or reuse the old ones. Is that right? The alternator looks like it comes with the pulley.

So for the cooling system PM parts list, I've come up with this:

Fig Item #DescriptionP/NCostQntyTotal cost
5Water pump1610009491
113.2​
1​
113.15​
6Water pump gasket16271-38020
5.62​
1​
5.62​
3Upper hose16571-38080
18.41​
1​
18.41​
4Lower hose16572-38131
24.22​
1​
24.22​
8Thermostat Unit Gasket16326-38010
4.26​
1​
4.26​
10Thermostat Unit16031-0S010
36.77​
1​
36.77​
1Serpentine belt90916A2033
44.14​
1​
44.14​
14By-Pass Hose16282-0S030
12.92​
1​
12.92​
50/50 Toyota Super long life antifreeze00272-SLLC2
13.48​
5​
67.40​
14Fan pulley mounting bracket16380-0S010
164.3​
1​
164.27​
2Serpentine Tensioner16620-0S012
63.77​
1​
63.77​
3Idler Pulley16603-38012
62.57​
1​
62.57​
617.50​
 
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While you can reuse the hose clamps, Toyota claims they are not a reusable part. I suspect Toyota feels they lose some of their holding strength with age and/or with being removed-reinstalled. Up to you whether to replace them. They are fairly inexpensive.
 

bloc

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While you can reuse the hose clamps, Toyota claims they are not a reusable part. I suspect Toyota feels they lose some of their holding strength with age and/or with being removed-reinstalled. Up to you whether to replace them. They are fairly inexpensive.
I assumed they were one-time because they come pre-opened with the little catch engaged. In many years of working on some very high mile Toyotas and reusing those clamps I’ve never had one present any hint it was losing strength, though I haven’t tested that for sure.

You are right though, they are cheap.

I’m going to have to do another radiator by next summer I think, I’ll try to answer that question.
 

kcjaz

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While you can reuse the hose clamps, Toyota claims they are not a reusable part. I suspect Toyota feels they lose some of their holding strength with age and/or with being removed-reinstalled. Up to you whether to replace them. They are fairly inexpensive.
I was thinking about that last night after I posted and had read your prior post on this topic. I started trying to find the part numbers but was having some trouble as the descriptions for the part numbers aren't quite clear. Here is what I found on the EB Toyota site:

Lower,Upper Radiator Hose Clamp (at radiator)90466-A0026
7.25​
Lower Radiator Hose Clamp90467-43002
5.19​

I'll probably just call my local dealer and tell them what I'm looking for.
 

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