100 Series vs 80 Series (1 Viewer)

[ShottsUZJ100]

A little argumentative for someone from Arizona telling me what handles better on ice there Shotts. All I can tell you is the 80 is a driver's vehicle. If you know how to drive on ice the 80 is a firmly planted, sure footed beast. The 100 takes most of the driver's inputs out of the picture, which can be quite dangerous on ice or snow. Once, again both are great vehicles, but the choice for me is an 80 series, locked and loaded. You can't beat it in our climate. Fire away Shotts.

Nothing to fire.

What do you think? We don't get snow and ice in AZ?

Atop Mt Lemmon there's a road I cannot climb in the 80 or 100 (locked) no matter how I try. I just slide sideways. The 100 with TRAC and VSC chatters away and up the hill it goes.

I've also played in icy parking lots. There's no comparing the traction and the control of the 2000+ 100 no matter how good a "driver's vehicle" the 80 is. Now....if you could add TRAC and VSC to an 80 we'd not be talking.

 

[tech_dog]

When I only drove an 80, I thought the 80's brakes were marginal.

Now that I drive a 100 and an 80, the 80's brakes feel even worse.

If you go back and forth between the two vehicles, you really feel the difference. After driving the 100 for a while and then going back to the 80, I'm instantly reminded of the difference and have to conciously remind myself to hit the brakes considerably harder than in the 100.

I'd imagine someone going between a 911 Turbo Carrera and an 80 has even more problems...

 

[dclee]

Atop Mt Lemmon there's a road I cannot climb in the 80 or 100 (locked) no matter how I try. I just slide sideways. The 100 with TRAC and VSC chatters away and up the hill it goes.

I've also played in icy parking lots. There's no comparing the traction and the control of the 2000+ 100 no matter how good a "driver's vehicle" the 80 is. Now....if you could add TRAC and VSC to an 80 we'd not be talking.

For harsh winter conditions, you're comparing Mt. Lemmon in the middle of the Sonoran Desert vs... freakin' ALASKA. I think that says it all right there. Might as well compare Squaw Peak to K2...

 

[tech_dog]

We all have different experiences.

Here in AZ most my 80 friends have cooling issues.

I've never asked the question in the 80's room, but I've always wondered how many of those overheating 80's weigh 7,000 lbs, spin 35"+ tires, have grills covered with lights, and have engine bays filled with compressers, extra batteries, etc.

Do stock 80's have cooling problems, or are the cooling problems just part of having a highly specialized, highly modified, single purpose rig?

 

[LXPearl]

I thought Andrew's post was great. All LCs are great and at the top. Each has improved with the times and the driving needs of the motoring public. Unfortunately, Toyota has limited availabiltiy of some options on the 100s in the USA to the editions and options most new buyers want. This is a marketing issue where the Sequoia was introduced as the more economical option to compete with the Expedition and Tahoe, with essentially same dimensions.

As one who started out trying to control V8 Mustangs in snow and on ice, an 80 LC would have been a supreme and welcome joy. Those Mustangs were not known for their braking power, but they lasted longer than the 80s brakes.

If I was not able to find a 100 in good shape but could find a good 80, would I be happy? I believe so. However, in all my looking at LCs, I did not come across any 80s that were in excellent condition, and only one had both front and rear lockers.

For 99% of my use, the 100 is clearly superior, even if I could find a well maintained low mileage 80 in excellent condition. However, if I was comparing the 80 with a pre-2000 model 100, I would have a more difficult decision. I love the TRAC/VSC in the 100. It is awesome in rain, snow and ice. I feel my family is in one of the safest vehicles on the road, regardless the conditions.

 

[tech_dog]

Nothing to fire.

What do you think? We don't get snow and ice in AZ?

Atop Mt Lemmon there's a road I cannot climb in the 80 or 100 (locked) no matter how I try. I just slide sideways. The 100 with TRAC and VSC chatters away and up the hill it goes.

I've also played in icy parking lots. There's no comparing the traction and the control of the 2000+ 100 no matter how good a "driver's vehicle" the 80 is. Now....if you could add TRAC and VSC to an 80 we'd not be talking.

Yep.....

The TRAC and VSC seem to do pretty well in sand and on ice. That was one of the takeaways on my recent cross country trip.

 

[JJ_SC]

What about this trip?:
http://www.snookoffroad.com/video_Rubicon_2005.htm

Looks like the 100 kept up just fine, or was there a lot of extra struggle that didn't get filmed?? (also, what kinda front bumper is that? TMJ with out the push bar? I like it...) That video makes it hard to tell any difference between the capabilities of the two trucks. And I read some where (probably here) that the 100 was brought along on the Rubicon to support the FJ Cruiser when they tested it out there.

I think this stuff helps argue that it's only going to be a matter of time until the 100 becomes affordable enough to get pushed into harder trails.

Some folks have made the point that the 100 isn't as easily fixed on the trail. I think this does separate the two and makes the 80 a better choice for the hard core. But then again, I remember an old salt, ocean sailor telling me that GPS is totally un-reliable on an off-shore sail boat. Now you'd be considered an unsafe fool if you went off-shore with out it. Technology gets better and better, so I wonder how much of an issue this will really be in a few years.

Anyway, I'm finding these comparisons pretty amusing! I love my truck and I'd love to go wheel'n in an 80 too. In fact, I'll meet any of you at the Rubicon trail head and happily ride shotgun in your 80 across those crazy rocks. I'll even stop at the mall and buy a battery operated coffee pot to bring along.

 

[dclee]

Looks like the 100 kept up just fine, or was there a lot of extra struggle that didn't get filmed??

Yes. Maybe not a lot, but some. Also, that 100 had a superb driver behind the wheel, which helped.

In fact, I'll meet any of you at the Rubicon trail head and happily ride shotgun in your 80 across those crazy rocks. I'll even stop at the mall and buy a battery operated coffee pot to bring along.

Rubithon in June (I assume you're a TLCA member?) and NorCal 80s wagon run in August/September.

 

[Jim_Chow]

I've got to chime in my $.02. In cold weather environments, the 80 blows the 100 out of the water. The 100 will consistently blow CV boots and have more electrical malfuncions whereas the 80 typically keeps trucking along. Of all the 80 series my family and friends have owned I have yet to see any major malfunction that has left the owner stranded. Whereas the 100 series cruisers seem to see the inside of our service center weekly for the afore mentioned issues. I just do not think cold weather testing played into the 100 series design. I'm sure it's great in the warm Arizona-like climates, but not so much in Alaska. Although I will trade my 80 series seats out for the 100's heated variety. ;p

Are the torn CV's because the rubber gets too brittle at sub-zero temps?

 

[Snook]

Looks like the 100 kept up just fine, or was there a lot of extra struggle that didn't get filmed??

Any footages that showed a "real progress" is included since we all have very short attention span, don't we?

(also, what kinda front bumper is that? TMJ with out the push bar? I like it...)

Amando and I made those front and rear bumper to his specification.

That video makes it hard to tell any difference between the capabilities of the two trucks.

The real purpose of this video is to show this to my chicks nurse in the year 2060 while my 100 years old body is strapped to this 4 wheel drive wheelchair.
http://www.ibotnow.com/ibot/4wheel.html

And I read some where (probably here) that the 100 was brought along on the Rubicon to support the FJ Cruiser when they tested it out there.

Yes, we beat them by few days ahead and unlike Amando's, those two support100 series were beaten up.

Cheers,

 

[cary]

Just my thoughts as an 80 owner who has driven several 100's. The 100 is an evolution, not a revolution. It drives nicer, has more features, is quieter, and is a bit more comfortable. The jump is not as dramatic as it was from the 60 to 80, more a refinement. For most things the 100 is a better truck, but I will tell you, when people comment on mine, they say they like that body style better than the 100.

 

[FirstToy]

Yes, we beat them by few days ahead and unlike Amando's, those two support100 series were beaten up.

Cheers,

Yes, alot has to do with excellent driving and an awesome group.

 

[FirstToy]

The 100 is an evolution, not a revolution.

I see the 80 as a evolution and the 100 as a revolution.

80=best evolution of the Land Cruiser wagon
100=revolution=first IFS Land Cruiser wagon

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

What about this trip?:
http://www.snookoffroad.com/video_Rubicon_2005.htm

Looks like the 100 kept up just fine, or was there a lot of extra struggle that didn't get filmed??

I was not on that trip. I have spoken with a few close friends who know me, my four wheeling experience, and who have traveled the Rubicon in different vehicles. I've asked their opinions because I'm contemplating either a Rubi or another Moab visit....though not sure which trip or truck. Basicaly they all agree and tell me the same thing.

1. The Rubicon will be an extreme challenge due to the 100's overall size. Manuevering will be very difficult. Technical-wise, some of the obstacles I've traveled here in AZ are more dangerous and difficult than what's to be had on the Rubicon.

2. Small size is your friend on the Rubi. A stock Wrangler can run the Rubi. Try it in a stock 80 or 100 and you're in trouble.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/Rubicon_trail_2003/index.html

The above words are pretty close to identical to what Scott Brady has told me.

Others have commented:

Take the 80....you won't worry about it.
Take the 100....you know you can get it through if your not rushed and have a good spotter (Brady).

So I'm sure the challenge for Amando on that trip was intense. I did hear in one place they backed him down because his front-end parts were flexing. They feared breakage. I wasn't there though the same has happended to me here in AZ. I'd not back down. The 100's IFS parts have shown immense durability for me. My trust is in them until they fail me (if ever).

 

[FirstToy]

Do not talk about what Amando did or didn't do.
Do not say the trails you run are more difficult than the Rubicon if you've never run the Rubicon.

I was not on that trip. I have spoken with a few close friends who know me, my four wheeling experience, and who have traveled the Rubicon in different vehicles. I've asked their opinions because I'm contemplating either a Rubi or another Moab visit....though not sure which trip or truck. Basicaly they all agree and tell me the same thing.

1. The Rubicon will be an extreme challenge due to the 100's overall size. Manuevering will be very difficult. Technical-wise, some of the obstacles I've traveled here in AZ are more dangerous and difficult than what's to be had on the Rubicon.

2. Small size is your friend on the Rubi. A stock Wrangler can run the Rubi. Try it in a stock 80 or 100 and you're in trouble.

http://www.expeditionswest.com/adventures/2003/Rubicon_trail_2003/index.html

The above words are pretty close to identical to what Scott Brady has told me.

Others have commented:

Take the 80....you won't worry about it.
Take the 100....you know you can get it through if your not rushed and have a good spotter (Brady).

So I'm sure the challenge for Amando on that trip was intense. I did hear in one place they backed him down because his front-end parts were flexing. They feared breakage. I wasn't there though the same has happended to me here in AZ. I'd not back down. The 100's IFS parts have shown immense durability for me. My trust is in them until they fail me (if ever).

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Do not talk about what Amando did or didn't do.
Do not say the trails you run are more difficult than the Rubicon if you've never run the Rubicon.

Oh yes. Very sorry. I do know that you-all have more experience than Scott Brady despite him winning the Morocco Challenge and running the Baja 500 in the FJ Cruiser. I'll never re-quote his words to me again. My appologies.



I'm sorry, however you are not the Almighty Rubicon King who know more than anyone. I'll take Scott's advice over anybodies.

 

[cary]

Shotts,

I know that you love your 100 and feel it is the best vehicle ever made, but you are going over the top here.

Yes, a stock wrangler can make it through the Rubicon, so can a stock 80, Trooper, 100, Pathfinder, etc. Here is a Mercedes ML going through in 1997 by a guy that runs tours up there. He did it to prove that one could go through. The only question is how much damage are you going to inflict on the vehicle.

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ML320_RUBICON.html

BTW, you do realize that the Wrangler Rubicon you posted the link to is not even close to stock. That is unless Heep started equipping those things with ARB bumpers, winches, snorkels, etc.

Guys also take full sized trucks there there, i.e. bronco's and pickups. While the 100 is larger than the 80, it is not like it is a suburban.

While, I'm sure you have gone on some obstacles you have driven over are as hard as sections of the Rubicon, part of what makes the rubicon so hard it is that it is relentless. It isn't just an obstacle, drive 1/2 a mile, then hit another, it is one after another, after another, after another.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

So I'm sure the challenge for Amando on that trip was intense. I did hear in one place they backed him down because his front-end parts were flexing. They feared breakage. I wasn't there though the same has happended to me here in AZ. I'd not back down. The 100's IFS parts have shown immense durability for me. My trust is in them until they fail me (if ever).

Shotts-you really are too much. You wern't there, yet you wouldn't have backed down. Easy to say. Webwheeling at it's best. I was there, and advised Amando to back down. Had he broken there, (and I believe he would have looking at those front wheels pointing at each otherand hearing the popping noises), he would have stopped up the trail and totally screwed our trip. He was man enough to realize what is fun and what is folly. That particular spot is nearly half way in, how are you going to take a broken 100 series back to a trailhead from there? I can tell you the first 100 to attempt the Rubicon came out towed by several Jeeps and was totalled and written off.

Just for the record, the 80s do go through the Rubicon easier than the 100s, and it isn't about size or weight. If you doubt that, ask Amando if he would take his 100 through there again.

If you are so confident about your abilities, then you should join us. We have invited you the last two years. Then you could put the skeptics to rest. From what you post, it sounds like your experience is limited to 1 day trips close to pavement. That's cool. Just remember you need a different perspective about damage control when you are two days from help, especially with a front end that is as hard to repair as a 100 series and even more especially with the limited mechanical aptitude to which you so freely admit.

 

[JJ_SC]

Yes. Maybe not a lot, but some. Also, that 100 had a superb driver behind the wheel, which helped.

So there you go, that's about as direct and honest a comparison of the extreme capabilities of these two rigs as you can get. 80's got the nod, maybe not a lot, but some... And yeah, you can tell you guys know what you're doing out there. I've Mt. Biked portions of that trail and I can't imagine the skill it would take to get either of those trucks through that stuff.

Snook, that video is just good stuff, man. I usually can't make it through off road videos, but that one keeps me interested! Thanks for the site.

Amando and I made those front and rear bumper to his specification.

Man that thing is really good looking. That's exactly what I want. You guys should sell the design to ARB or something. I bet that would sell better then what's currently offered.

Rubithon in June (I assume you're a TLCA member?) and NorCal 80s wagon run in August/September.

Yeah, I'm a member and I'd love to tag along. I'll start working on vacation time!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Shotts,

I know that you love your 100 and feel it is the best vehicle ever made, but you are going over the top here.

Yes, a stock wrangler can make it through the Rubicon, so can a stock 80, Trooper, 100, Pathfinder, etc. Here is a Mercedes ML going through in 1997 by a guy that runs tours up there. He did it to prove that one could go through.

http://www.4x4abc.com/ML320/ML320_RUBICON.html

Guys also take full sized trucks there there, i.e. bronco's and pickups. While the 100 is larger than the 80, it is not like it is a suburban. The only question is how much damage are you going to inflict on the vehicle.

While, I'm sure you have gone on some obstacles you have driven over are as hard as sections of the Rubicon, part of what makes the rubicon so hard it is that it is relentless. It isn't just an obstacle, drive 1/2 a mile, then hit another, it is one after another, after another, after another.

I was telling the other dude (not everybody else) about what I know about taking a 100 through there. That's it. Relax all.

After hearing back from Scott I've decided to never take my current 100 through there. I believe the fun factor would be nil. It's that simple. I also don't believe I'd take my 80 in there either. I think Moab is more my style. Constant manuevering around rocks (in AZ too ) is not really my style. TOO SLOW!

When I build a shortened 100 I'll make to mangle then I MIGHT try the Rubicon to see how a vehicle like that would do. Might never happen though.