100 Series are Expensive - Discuss! (1 Viewer)

[snowmatt1]

I paid 20K for my truck (flew out and drove it back 2000 miles), then (since I'm not mechanical) paid another $5000 for lift, AHC delete, sliders, and K02s. Just dropped another $2K yesterday for my ARB front and winch (saved going Smittybilt vs Warn). Had a costly secondary air intake issue that I chose to spend $1600 and have the dealer fix right rather than do the bypass. So yeah, not cheap at all.

But I tell you what... I'm 43, and my whole life I've had practical, cost-effective stuff, from Honda Accords to second hand gear, you name it. Family came first. And now that I can afford to do what I want, this is what I'm doing. And I look at that truck every day and love it and have zero buyer's remorse. It's a hobby. I will certainly "lose money" on it if and when I sell. But I'm handing down my 16 year old son my Audi A4 and keeping the cruiser as my DD because I just love it.

No regrets! Proud owner! And heading to the Sierra's this weekend.

 

[gatormark91]

Please do not buy an e38 7 Series. You're out of your mind if you think you can refurbish it without spending 5 digits. First of all, a v8 BMW is going to leak oil out of every seal in that thing. It doesn't matter if it's five years old, or fifty years old. Second of all, M62's are notorious for timing chain guide failure. It WILL happen. So if you buy an e38, right off the bat, be prepared to spend about $3,000 on timing chain guides. It's a 30+ hour job requiring a bunch of special tools. And the parts alone are getting close to $1,000. While you have the engine apart you may as well reseal the VANOS gears, thats only a few hundred dollars but good luck finding someone skilled enough to retime your engine after you put them back on. Ask me how I know.

If you're stripping the engine down that far and spending that much money you may as well spend a little bit more and give it a good baseline. Replace all the leaky seals. That'll be ~500+ in parts and probably another $1,000 in labor. Being an old V8 BMW I bet it'll have a lifter tick to it on a cold start. Might as well replace those. You pull out the lifters to find that half of them are completley worn out and need replacing. They're hydraulic. $40 a piece. Theres 32 of them. By now you're getting close to 7-8k but you think you finally have the engine right. Your suspension needs replacing though. Such a heavy car that most likely was driven hard for a good part of its life (it's the ultimate driving machine, right?). New struts and springs alone are about $1,000 in parts. Want to replace all the bushings in the front and rear that are 98% toast? That'll be $1,500 in parts. None of those bushings are serviceable just replace everything. Labor is god knows how much. You don't even care at this point just make it right. But after all this you finally have it right. Now you can find the Sport seats, an m5 Steering wheel, M-Pars, and all the other extremely hard to find goodies that you want. Don't even think about trying to upgrade the sound system. Trust me on that. And being an old BMW I promise you you'll still spend a good amount of money on it keeping it right. Notice I didn't mention anything about the transmission. Lets just pray that keeps working well.

Meanwhile, on my LX470 all I've really had to do on it was replace a condenser and bleed the AHC system. Probably $250 in parts and a few hours of my time. Don't get me wrong, It gets extremely expensive when I start thinking about all the stuff I want to do to it. New globes, Projectors, Roof Rack, Drawers, KO2's. But none of that is really necessary. This has been the absolute cheapest out of warranty vehicle I've ever maintained.

"Nothing is as expensive as a cheap German car"

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

Btw, it's a very important distinction to make for those who pay to have work done and those who diy. My $650 was for the alternator, radiator, muffler and timing belt jobs. If I'd paid to have those done it would have been more like 3500.

 

[Land Caesar]

Man, Great thread! I really want it to continue. Good insight and insight. Racks/control arms/brake booster kit - and misc smaller parts can add up... almost can afford another car. However! When you drive a 100 and Look at it from a longevity standpoint. It’s money well spent.
Try buying a Suburban or Tahoe. A expedition or the like today, that’s throw away money. Drastic devalued cost immediately. I See spending few thousand as Saving Thousands as apposed to getting into another more costly vehicle.
Someday the 200 series will be discussed like this. Yet as of now, a used 100 offers reasonable entry cost, and Comfort like not much else can. Test drive a new 4funner. Cool/nimble/nice.... Then test drive a well maintained, excellent condition 100. One will outlast the other? Maybe. Yet there is no question what one is nicer and more comfortable to Drive! I’ll stay with the Global SUV that’s a True joy to own, even if paying at the pump can get expensive.
Oh and once the majority repair big ticket items are done, a little here and there upkeep cost... You have Smooth Cruising for a long,long time. Just keep an eye on your rig and make it a hobby to pay attention to the Machine

 

[Moderator]

I purchased my 2004 LX in April for $16.5 which is high but I paid a premium because it was a one owner vehicle and miles are fairly low at 147K. It was in great cosmetic shape and had most of the records from the dealership. It hadn't had the timing belt done so after I purchased I paid a local dude $1100 to do timing belt, pulleys, spark plugs, themostat, heater Ts, serpentine belt, oil seals and look over the vehicle. I changed most of the fluids myself after that including greasing the drive shaft. Took it into a 4x4 shop today for front brake calipers (rebuilt), pads, rotors and bearing service which will add another $1200 but that should do it for at least a few years. I'll probably only put 8K on it per year and I don't really go off-road and when I do it's not something a honda civic couldn't handle. I bought the vehicle because it's super comfortable, EXCELLENT reliability, Japanese made, and will have excellent resale value if I ever let it go. I'm assuming that as long as I take care of it (which I certainly will) I should be able to sell it in 10 years for $15K or more when it's a classic. I don't plan on doing any sort of build. I wasted plenty of cash when I owned a 2004 Wrangler Unlimited. (1st year 2 door unlimited was offered) I do miss that vehicle and in hindsight should have kept it because it would have been worth the same today (10 years later) as when I sold it in 2009.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Man this thread is still kept alive!
Having owned and wheeled my truck for a year and half now, I can tell you these trucks are getting to an age where they need a lot of R&R to make them reliable. In the last 3 months I have successfully persuaded at least 3 people from buying a 100 series LC/LX.
Here are the most common expenses I see in most of the trucks approaching 200K:

Timing Belt: $1200 to $1500
All control arms (front and rear): $1500 to $2000
Brake booster motor/accumulator: $1200 to $2000
Alternator: $500
Steering Rack: $500 to $1000
Brakes: $800 to $1200

Optional:
Interior refresh/seat upholstery: $500 to $1500
Audio upgrade: $300 to $600
Headlight upgrade: $300 to $1200
Rust repair: varies

Aftermarket upgrades are also way more expensive than Jeeps. (I haven't checked if they are more expensive than 4R or Taco).
Finally, there are a few design flaws from the factory that I might go into some other time.

As 200 series get cheaper (lots around $25k now!), I keep on thinking about getting one to replace our Sienna but am not sure if they are plagued with these issues as well.

 

[97 AZ LC]

As 200 series get cheaper (lots around $25k now!), I keep on thinking about getting one to replace our Sienna but am not sure if they are plagued with these issues as well.

They have their own issues, generally more expensive than a 100. 200s are a modern high tech vehicle. Prices will keep falling because there is a dearth of people willing to take care of them into old age. There will someday be a crossover point where 200s are worth less than 100s. I've said before it costs approximately nothing to take care of a 98 model here in the desert. I don't abuse it or modify it, it rarely asks for anything, every single bolt breaks loose as it should, parts prices are very reasonable and labor is zero or close to it. It's hard to generalize about 100 operating costs.

 

[kevin2i]

Big difference between "DIY" and Dealer/Mechanic route. I think you did a service to your friends if they thought they could be a 200k vehicle and drive another 200k without issue. In my case, truck started needing attention (more than regular maintenance) around 240k.

Rough prices for DIY

Timing belt (including water pump) - under 500 (all tensiors, belt, OEM parts)
Control arms (Upper front, rears?) - 400-500 plus $50 for lower BJ
Brake booster - Not sure
Alternator (Denso) $120
Steering rack $350-500
Brakes (disks,calipers/pads, hoses) - under $500 (just new pads - $40-100)

Also add
Radiator (plastic tanks crack) Denso $125
A/C rebuild (compressor/evap/condensor/etc) 400-600
Ignition coils (65 each) - got 3 new and a couple of spares
MAF $65
Reboot CV's $100
Immobilizer (fuse box) issue $10 for bypass. (Dealer will probably replace fuse box, guessing $1200).
Starter $180 (including gaskets) - this is a pain, and looks like I will be doing this for the 3rd time. Expensive dealer job.
Put 'starter location' on design flaw list. (although not sure where it could go).


Interior - LSeats - $350
Door panels - I'm stuck here. My next project.
Stereo - Non nav - just replace, carplay/whatever, and speakers (mandatory).
Nav delete - good luck with that. (see JerryB's thread).

I've had my '98 since 2003/60k now with 290k. I know the truck (and I know a place of infinite hundy wisdom on the internets ) I figure I have an equivalent of two or three 'car payments' of $500 to budget a year to keep it going. Starting from 'new' with a 250k truck could be a can of worms (if neglected).

Never been stranded, but stuff that almost got me stuck -
1 The immobilizer issue will strand you - but if you jiggle/replace fuse might get it going. First fuse replace lasted 2 years. A single wire directly to the battery can bypass fuse(holder) and keep it going.
2 Cracked radiator, fortunately 20 miles from home. Had to buy water jugs and refill every 10 miles.
3 Alternator died on a trip, 400 miles to go. Fortunately saw light early - bought 3 batteries at Home Depot. A fresh battery will get you about 200-250 miles (daylight) before going dead. Recharged batteries, returned to HD.

If someone isn't mechanically inclined, and isn't resourceful, a 200k vehicle probably isn't the best choice without adequate budget and a AAA card. On the other hand, if you start with a solid vehicle and keep up on it, if you are capable of DIY, might be the 'cheapest' vehicle to get you to 400k in the long run.

Man this thread is still kept alive!
. . . . I have successfully persuaded at least 3 people from buying a 100 series LC/LX.
Here are the most common expenses I see in most of the trucks approaching 200K:

Timing Belt: $1200 to $1500
All control arms (front and rear): $1500 to $2000
Brake booster motor/accumulator: $1200 to $2000
Alternator: $500
Steering Rack: $500 to $1000
Brakes: $800 to $1200

Optional:
Interior refresh/seat upholstery: $500 to $1500
Audio upgrade: $300 to $600
Headlight upgrade: $300 to $1200
Rust repair: varies

Aftermarket upgrades are also way more expensive than Jeeps. (I haven't checked if they are more expensive than 4R or Taco).
Finally, there are a few design flaws from the factory that I might go into some other time.

As 200 series get cheaper (lots around $25k now!), I keep on thinking about getting one to replace our Sienna but am not sure if they are plagued with these issues as well.

 

[abuck99]

My advice to anyone wanting to "build" a vehicle.... buy a nice one that's already built and save thousands. In the end, only the person spending the money can determine if a good value was purchased. I'm established and drive the cars I like (LX and 2005 4runner), but don't spend wildly more than I would if I had 2 Honda civics (minus fuel).

buying a built vehicle can be hit or miss depending builders process, quality of components and how they looked after it- More likely to spend your time and $$double the money- un-doing all the mistakes and poor choices of a poorly executed build. Better to start fresh with an un molested truck. Honestly half the fun and reward of learning this platform is building and maintaining them.

 

[ranma21]

I am 26 or 27k into a 2002. I've had it 7 or 8 years.... got it with 105k on it I'm around 230k now. If you are the type that has to have the latest gadgets or a new ride every few years then a old cruiser probably isn't for you. If you don't like idea of the note on a new cruiser... cruisers probably aren't for you. I'm probably going to take a nap and then drive through the fields of grandpa's farm collecting firewood and visiting the spots that I often walked to as a kid. And at some point I'm going to hop in it and drive 5 hours back to the big city.
I'm not the least bit concerned about the truck putting me down in the field or on the interstate. If your a like minded individual, neither land Rover nor jeep, chevy,ford or dodge, not BMW ,mercedes, audi, nor rolls, neither, new used,or rebuilt, will do what I want done as fearlessly as cruiser will... even if you just got it from a soccer mom, that just drove it to the mall.
You buy a cruiser cause you got places you want to. Now matter what. Period. Yeah it cost... it cost to be boss.

Cost of owning a cruiser is actually not bad and super reliable as long as you baseline and replace potential failing parts. Just drove my 200 4K miles towing a box trailer up and down Utah Arizona mountain back to Houston after work. Oh yea also wheeled in Arizona Broken Arrow too. Got on highway and cruise all the way home like nothing. Cost of ownership around $2k in 3 yrs 35k miles, new KO2, new brake rotors, pad, oil change and new radiator, hoses water pump. All OEM parts. Did all the work myself. Truck has 110000k miles.

Same as my 97 80 series, cost of ownership around $2.5k in 12 yrs, includes new tires, brakes, water pump, hoses, spark plug wires, filters, oil change, fluid, front knuckle rebuilt, only OEM parts, may not be relevant as it only seen 10k miles in 12 yrs. truck has 136k miles.

But if a high miles neglected truck will cost you more to bring it back to shape. Also be ready to diy to get it right. Or else just buy a newer low mile truck around 100k miles.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Cost of owning a cruiser is actually not bad and super reliable as long as you baseline and replace potential failing parts. Just drove my 200 4K miles towing a box trailer up and down Utah Arizona mountain back to Houston after work. Oh yea also wheeled in Arizona Broken Arrow too. Got on highway and cruise all the way home like nothing. Cost of ownership around $2k in 3 yrs 35k miles, new KO2, new brake rotors, pad, oil change and new radiator, hoses water pump. All OEM parts. Did all the work myself. Truck has 110000k miles.

Same as my 97 80 series, cost of ownership around $2.5k in 12 yrs, includes new tires, brakes, water pump, hoses, spark plug wires, filters, oil change, fluid, front knuckle rebuilt, only OEM parts, may not be relevant as it only seen 10k miles in 12 yrs. truck has 136k miles.

But if a high miles neglected truck will cost you more to bring it back to shape. Also be ready to diy to get it right. Or else just buy a newer low mile truck around 100k miles.

So buy a low mile truck and don't drive it much to keep the cost down? Thats kind of true for majority of cars!

 

[Rigger]

I bet I have $30k in my Hundo. It’s a low miles garage queen. I love it.

 

[ranma21]

So buy a low mile truck and don't drive it much to keep the cost down? Thats kind of true for majority of cars!

Lol, think you missed the point or I did not explain my self properly. Let me see I have had 9 LC/LX in the past 12 yrs, that being said I keep the 97 the longest as I love the 80, I do not drive it that much as it is not child friendly as it is lifted for expedition trip and I have 2 little ones. So currently the 570 and our sienna van are the one we drive most, just more child friendly. And we drive the 570 everywhere and put about 12k miles each year. I tow long distance and drive long distance and go off-road with it.

As for your statement of low miles vehicle and don’t drive to keep cost down, that may be the way to do it if yo do not drive much.

100k miles is not considered low miles for most vehicles unfortunately, none of the German built vehicle is considered low miles at 100k mark and required tons of repairs, but for LC it is considered low miles and needs minimal repair if any.

Just bought another 99 with 180k and another 97 with 300k miles lol Haven’t gone through them yet.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

Lol, think you missed the point or I did not explain my self properly. Let me see I have had 9 LC/LX in the past 12 yrs, that being said I keep the 97 the longest as I love the 80, I do not drive it that much as it is not child friendly as it is lifted for expedition trip and I have 2 little ones. So currently the 570 and our sienna van are the one we drive most, just more child friendly. And we drive the 570 everywhere and put about 12k miles each year. I tow long distance and drive long distance and go off-road with it.

As for your statement of low miles vehicle and don’t drive to keep cost down, that may be the way to do it if yo do not drive much.

100k miles is not considered low miles for most vehicles unfortunately, none of the German built vehicle is considered low miles at 100k mark and required tons of repairs, but for LC it is considered low miles and needs minimal repair if any.

Just bought another 99 with 180k and another 97 with 300k miles lol Haven’t gone through them yet.

View attachment 2137540

Thanks for explaining. This is a good looking bunch you got there!

The reality is despite being most fuel thirsty car, my 98 LX gets most miles. We put 12k miles in just about a year of ownership.

And i own 4 cars!
Lately I have been lobbying my wife to trade in our 2012 Sienna for a 570!
I love the land cruisers and am constantly browsing cl and fb market place posts. But that doesn't change the fact that these cars aren't for your average joe who takes their ride to the local jiffy lube for oil change!

 

[SHIfTHEAD]

Btw, it's a very important distinction to make for those who pay to have work done and those who diy. My $650 was for the alternator, radiator, muffler and timing belt jobs. If I'd paid to have those done it would have been more like 3500.

Update: Just passed 253K miles, 40K since I've owned it (3 yrs now) and the cost of ownership has not gone up for any additional maintenance items.

 

[ranma21]

Thanks for explaining. This is a good looking bunch you got there!

The reality is despite being most fuel thirsty car, my 98 LX gets most miles. We put 12k miles in just about a year of ownership.

And i own 4 cars!
Lately I have been lobbying my wife to trade in our 2012 Sienna for a 570!
I love the land cruisers and am constantly browsing cl and fb market place posts. But that doesn't change the fact that these cars aren't for your average joe who takes their ride to the local jiffy lube for oil change!

Sienna is a very practical vehicle, lots of room and no way LC beat it in that criteria. That is why we are still keeping our 2014 Sienna, but driving experience is night and day compare to the 570. Trust me, let your wife test drive the 570 and she will want one. Now my wife hated the Sienna, said it is cheap and we bought it new too, lol!!

I generally do not let mechanic touch my vehicles unless I know them in person let alone jiffylube lol. Unfortunately to do things right you have to do it yourself most of the time.

 

[wyattroa]

I think the big differences is between the DIY crowd and the ones who are either not mechanically inclined or just don't have the time. I bought my 05 LX with 181k on it in May this year. Since then I have done the following

Heater Tees (were leaking)
Rear lock Actuator (did not work)
timing belt (unknown how many miles on it, looked new when I took it off)
idler pulley (squeaking)
water pump (had it off so replaced it)
Cam seals (had access so replaced them, were not leaking)
crank seal ( had access and replaced, was not leaking)
fan bracket
Front Wheel Bearings ( loose nut, but replaced bearings anyways so I knew they were new)
New belt ( put a new one on with the timing belt)
cabin filter ( they were dirty)
Put Rear LED tails on it (did not have to do this, just preferred the look)

If I were to bring it to a shop to do this, this would have cost a ton. But I was able to do it myself and saved a bunch of cash.

 

[boobird]

I think the big differences is between the DIY crowd and the ones who are either not mechanically inclined or just don't have the time. I bought my 05 LX with 181k on it in May this year. Since then I have done the following

Heater Tees (were leaking)
Rear lock Actuator (did not work)
timing belt (unknown how many miles on it, looked new when I took it off)
idler pulley (squeaking)
water pump (had it off so replaced it)
Cam seals (had access so replaced them, were not leaking)
crank seal ( had access and replaced, was not leaking)
fan bracket
Front Wheel Bearings ( loose nut, but replaced bearings anyways so I knew they were new)
New belt ( put a new one on with the timing belt)
cabin filter ( they were dirty)
Put Rear LED tails on it (did not have to do this, just preferred the look)

If I were to bring it to a shop to do this, this would have cost a ton. But I was able to do it myself and saved a bunch of cash.

How difficult was the timing belt kit job? I'm new to this DIY stuff and have recently changed 1-banana tasks like sway bar bushings, spark plugs, etc.

 

[guardcompany]

Big difference between "DIY" and Dealer/Mechanic route. I think you did a service to your friends if they thought they could be a 200k vehicle and drive another 200k without issue. In my case, truck started needing attention (more than regular maintenance) around 240k.

Rough prices for DIY

Timing belt (including water pump) - under 500 (all tensiors, belt, OEM parts)
Control arms (Upper front, rears?) - 400-500 plus $50 for lower BJ
Brake booster - Not sure
Alternator (Denso) $120
Steering rack $350-500
Brakes (disks,calipers/pads, hoses) - under $500 (just new pads - $40-100)

Also add
Radiator (plastic tanks crack) Denso $125
A/C rebuild (compressor/evap/condensor/etc) 400-600
Ignition coils (65 each) - got 3 new and a couple of spares
MAF $65
Reboot CV's $100
Immobilizer (fuse box) issue $10 for bypass. (Dealer will probably replace fuse box, guessing $1200).
Starter $180 (including gaskets) - this is a pain, and looks like I will be doing this for the 3rd time. Expensive dealer job.
Put 'starter location' on design flaw list. (although not sure where it could go).


Interior - LSeats - $350
Door panels - I'm stuck here. My next project.
Stereo - Non nav - just replace, carplay/whatever, and speakers (mandatory).
Nav delete - good luck with that. (see JerryB's thread).

I've had my '98 since 2003/60k now with 290k. I know the truck (and I know a place of infinite hundy wisdom on the internets ) I figure I have an equivalent of two or three 'car payments' of $500 to budget a year to keep it going. Starting from 'new' with a 250k truck could be a can of worms (if neglected).

Never been stranded, but stuff that almost got me stuck -
1 The immobilizer issue will strand you - but if you jiggle/replace fuse might get it going. First fuse replace lasted 2 years. A single wire directly to the battery can bypass fuse(holder) and keep it going.
2 Cracked radiator, fortunately 20 miles from home. Had to buy water jugs and refill every 10 miles.
3 Alternator died on a trip, 400 miles to go. Fortunately saw light early - bought 3 batteries at Home Depot. A fresh battery will get you about 200-250 miles (daylight) before going dead. Recharged batteries, returned to HD.

If someone isn't mechanically inclined, and isn't resourceful, a 200k vehicle probably isn't the best choice without adequate budget and a AAA card. On the other hand, if you start with a solid vehicle and keep up on it, if you are capable of DIY, might be the 'cheapest' vehicle to get you to 400k in the long run.

These part prices are misleading. These are mostly aftermarket parts prices and a lot of those are known to have issues (ie: steering rack and radiator)

 

[OEMGUY0720]

I think otherwise. Having the correct mindset to own an LC let alone a V8 literally is a money pit. My reason is simple: the quality, the experience of driving it is such a joy you just keep on going. It’s the smiles per gallon. Then comes the through the roof list of upgrades that just won’t end. You use it on-road, you think of “better creature comfort features”. You drive it off-road you think of making it go farther, higher, faster and in the process yes you break things. That’s why I consider this vehicle (and I say the same analogy to my wife) that this is a hobbyist’s car. When I was younger I thought building a straight N1 TRD Corolla or all-out Spoon Civic ground-up was expensive, the 4X4 Land Cruiser world was about 10x more Lol. I guess it’s a matter of understanding and sticking to your objective when you bought your LC/LX (factored-in you have a couple of thousand of bucks for unexpected repairs for 200k+ mile vehicle) with that said I think the cost of ownership of one is similar to much younger Toyota 4x4 like a Tacoma.