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Front rotor removal and replacement (check link to pics)
100/LX Brakes
- Thread starter LX470Pilot
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That is a Frequently Asked Question (HINT)
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Front rotor removal and replacement (check link to pics)
ok...I've done something completely stupid and now I am not sure what to do. When I was taking the caliper off, I took unscrewed the wrong bolts. Then, some liquid, which I simply assumed was brake fluid, started leaking from the caliper. So I quickly tried to screw the bolts back on. There's plenty of fluid in the brake fluid reservoir. Since I don't have the 54mm to do the job right now and I want to get my car back to Long Beach to work on it there instead, I figured I'd put it back together and drive back. But now when I step on the brakes, I have to pump it like 3 or 4 times before the brake pedal hardens.
Any ideas on what I did and how I would solve this problem?
Any ideas on what I did and how I would solve this problem?
- Thread starter
- #23
Not knowing much about this, just a guess but I'd say you got air in the brake lines.
Don't know how to fix it though - has something to do with 'bleeding' the system, which I understand means squeezing the air out, but I don't know how.
-LX Pilot
Don't know how to fix it though - has something to do with 'bleeding' the system, which I understand means squeezing the air out, but I don't know how.
-LX Pilot
Great... like I really needed to add more problems. haha.
FYI: Unless you always have an extra person around when you need to bleed your brake lines...invest in SpeedBleaders so that you can bleed down yourself.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
I think there's one on overhauling an old 4runner front end down to the birfield joints on 4x4wire.com. It's the same procedure except you have no manual locking freehub and the torque specs are totally different, of course. Toyota has used the same setup in their trucks for the last 20 yrs (except I think the 3rd gen 4runner didn't use the 54mm socket), which is one reason I bought the 100. You really don't need an impact wrench except if your lugnuts are over-torqued. On the 4runner, I needed the impact since instead of using a c-clip, there's a bolt, and you can't tighten the bolt w/o everything turning unless you use an impact. With the c-clip setup, you need a bolt to thread in the hole to pull the axle end out far enough to get the C-clip on. Anyone recall that bolt size? 8x1.25? Anyways, if you attempt it yourself, here are some tips I've found helpful:
1) you don't need to remove the hard line for the front caliper; just remove the two (17mm?) bolts (I use a 18" cheater bar) to remove the caliper, remove the metal clip at the junction of the hard and soft line, then tie up the caliper so it's out of the way and the hard line isn't stressed. I haven't had any issues w/ brake pads moving closer together. Maybe i'm just lucky?
2) use a thick brass bar and heavy hammer to pound off the cone washers. I've tried a 3/8" square stock brass and it just bent; bought a thick 3/4" round stock bar at a hardware store in Torrance. That did the trick. Some people lightly lube the cone washers w/ anti-seize to make it easier to remove next time, but it's debatable whether this is wise, as they are supposed to stick.
3) To install the inner oil seal, I originally used a plastic-tipped hammer, but it was still difficult, took maybe 15 min per seal. Last time, I used a stack (maybe 3-4" thick) of leftover hardwood flooring and just pounded it w/ a normal hammer until it was flush w/ the lip of the hub...voila, installed in under 20 seconds!
4) I've never bothered to use a fish scale to measure final bearing tension..I do it by feel w/ my index finger on the lug bolt.
5) I use a lisle bearing packer to squeeze the old grease out of the bearings, buy a tub of amsoil or M1 MP grease and use a plastic butter knife.
PS: do not mix up the parts on either side of the vehicle. The bearings wear to the race so you cannot interchange them. Plus if you change a bearing, you must also change the race for that bearing.
Brake bleeding:
Was the bolt you removed when the brake fluid started squirting out the hard line to the brake (one 10mm bolt)? Anyways, you'll need to bleed that caliper since you now have air in the line. I haven't bled the LX brakes yet or on the newer toyotas w/ electronic brake boosters (got lazy and had the tech do it since it was 105F outside last summer!), only the classic method on my other toyota and honda. I asked the tech about bleeding the LX. From what he told me, for the rear, you just turn the ignition to "on" and step on the brake pedal while your buddy cracks the bleeder valve, and out comes the fluid. On the fronts, you have to pump the classic way or use the toyota hand tool or toyota AHC tool. I've yet to verify if what he told me is correct.
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damn jimmy why didnt you post this on CL a month and a half ago when i went and paid 1300 for new pads and rotors installed at the lexus dealership? I did a double whammie that day, the LX and the LS...guys got 2200 in the end.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
For that much, you could have bought a pair of brembo calipers for the fronts! $1300 for rotors/pads sounds really steep. New rotors are around $110 each, pads about $50/axle, anti-squeal shims about $35/axle (I get the feeling the dealer reuses the shims eventhough the manual says to replace them).
Speaking of that....HI-JACK....what do you think the outcome would be by adding all the Brembo stuff to the 100?
The 100 already has world-class braking for a vehicle it's wegiht and size.
I ask because of my Rx8. You don't out-brake an Rx8 and that's with the OEM setup. Guys that added Brembo's have seen almost no improvment over stock (which is unusual in the sports car industry).
Do you think the same for a 100? What's your guess Chow?
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
John, I've seen two different brembo kits for the front of the 100. One works w/ normal 16" wheels, the other requires 18" wheels and come w/ bigger rotors. I suspect the one for 16" wheels wouldn't be noticeably better. For better braking, I would think bigger diameter rotors will help more than merely larger piston surface area on a stock-sized rotor. OTOH, have you ever seen aviation disc brakes? The calipers/pads cover a large percentage of the rotor (not like a 10 deg pie slice like w/ cars, much more, like 90 deg). But they have different braking requirement.
I was looking at a recent issue of LC mag that listed all the changes of the 100 series from year to year. It says the '03+ 100 has different sized front calipers (it listed something like S12+14 for the '98-02 vs S13+15 for the '03-06, or maybe it's S14+12 and S15+13). I wonder if this was due to the larger 18" wheels?
I was looking at a recent issue of LC mag that listed all the changes of the 100 series from year to year. It says the '03+ 100 has different sized front calipers (it listed something like S12+14 for the '98-02 vs S13+15 for the '03-06, or maybe it's S14+12 and S15+13). I wonder if this was due to the larger 18" wheels?
??? Me no whiz.
It would be interesting to see braking tests between them...and a Brembo kit.
I installed Applied Rotor Technology rotors (cryogen'd), kevlar pads, and SS lines and the difference compared to stock, on my rig, is night and day: Significantly more peak power (I would estimate this at +25% min); much better modulation; virtually no heat fade. FYI: These are the only rotors that will hold up on pre 2007 MY Audi A6's...which have notoriously undersized rotors that have well known heat warp (or call it what you want) issues.
- Thread starter
- #33
OK, ordered Akebono ProAct Ceramics from TireRack.
In related news - myself and WantaCruiser are getting together on Thursday to help eachother install our brakes.
If anyone in the Long Beach area needs help or wants to come by and offer assistance, we'd be happy to have you.
-LX Pilot
In related news - myself and WantaCruiser are getting together on Thursday to help eachother install our brakes.
If anyone in the Long Beach area needs help or wants to come by and offer assistance, we'd be happy to have you.
-LX Pilot
Looks like I may have to invest in a compressor and impact wrench before then. hehe.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
Which kevlar pads?
Porterfields. I don't remember the model however I can contact ART if you want to know. Actually I put the Kevlar's up front and to save some doerayme I put the carbon's in the back.
If you can get the ABS to engage then you have plenty of braking power. The limiting factor is in the tire/road combination. I doubt the large aftermarket kits will be of value for most unless they they are doing something (mountain downhills w/ trailer) that results in brake fade.
I had no brake fade at all on a recent Pikes Peak decent. Temps were only 140 degrees at the half-way point. Trip partners had to stop and allow their brakes to cool as they were over 300 degrees.
I reused my shims and have no queaks. Just apply a generous amount of brake grease ($1 packets) to the shims. Also note which shims go where. They all look quite similar but there are differences.
I had no brake fade at all on a recent Pikes Peak decent. Temps were only 140 degrees at the half-way point. Trip partners had to stop and allow their brakes to cool as they were over 300 degrees.
I reused my shims and have no queaks. Just apply a generous amount of brake grease ($1 packets) to the shims. Also note which shims go where. They all look quite similar but there are differences.
Jim_Chow
V8_Fan
I have the Porterfield R4s street performance pads on my 4runner...excellent braking, no fade, but that was after I beefed up the pathetic stock booster w/ a V6 one. How much for the ART rotors, front & back? I was mulling replacing the rotors w/ Powerslot cryo's. I've been running powerslots (non-cryo) on my 4runner fronts for 5 yrs now, still stops great, no warping. Looking closely at the rotors, they are brembos...they probably bought the blanks, slotted them, and marked up the price.
Correct: ART does not manufacturer the rotors; however they slot them (not slotted to the either rotor radius...as in their website photo(!) and the slot is radiused at the bottom...no 90 degree edges/stress risers...then they cryo the rotors on-site. The complete set of 4-slotted & cryo'd rotors with 1-pr Kevlar and 1-pr Carbon pads with S/H was $775. I would, after putting over 5K on them in all types of conditions including pulling the Horizon on and off-road make the same decision again. As I mentioned elsewhere here we used the ART system on the front of a '00 A6 Audi which has notoriously poorly designed/sized rotors. The above cost does not include the SS lines I had made locally...
FYI: The rotors and pads (presumably the OEM but no record from PS to prove one way or the other) that were on my rig when I bought it, had plenty of life left, if they were not heat warped (or whatever you want to call the symptom). The added weight of AO drawers, steel bumpers, larger tires, gear...taxed a more the adequate brake system for a stock rig...that is why I spent the bucks and upgraded.
- Thread starter
- #40
Ok, so my pads should be arriving today.
Coming up on last call for attendees to our little brake get together tomorrow in Long Beach...
-LX Pilot
Coming up on last call for attendees to our little brake get together tomorrow in Long Beach...
-LX Pilot
