05, 06, 07 LC/LX lower quality?

[SR.GRINGO]

Some have stated that the quality is down on the newer LC's/LX's my question is....is this true or have a few people had a bad experience? What is the deal with Araco--at the end of 04/ start of 05 were the cruisers made in a new physical location or is it simply a name change?

 

[a990dna]

good question. My first thought it was a name change but I'd have a difficult time as a manufacturing manager justifying why I would move a product line to another location if it was at the end of the life-cycle -- unless they consolidated to make more space for a new line.

I don't know about the LC/LX line but Toyota is known for their flexibility and LEAN Manufacturing efforts.

I would tend to believe it's more supplier related problems as they continue to source components to lower cost regions -- may very well be having an initial impact on quality.

 

[spressomon]

FWIW: There seem to be a higher number of complaints regarding '05+ LC's on this forum...

 

[CrusrDug]

Outside of things like a990dna's frame problem, I think a lot of the complaints are creature feature complaints like NAV's, bluetooth and how things actually work(CDL push button right by the knee). It would be interesting to hear from the people with newer base models that are not loaded. I did have a headliner problem.

 

[JJ_SC]

We bought an 06 LC last December. After almost a year it's been flawless - well, okay, the driver's seat lumbar support motor had a short and was replaced by the dealer at the same time I had the 10k mile service done. Not bad considering the LR3 we traded in had to have the entire rear-end replaced in the 2nd week we owned it! (and that was just the start...)

I love the Land Cruiser and plan to drive it into the ground for the next 20 years (only way to justify the expense!). I think quality is just a function of probabilities. Any make or model could be a lemon. You just have a higher likelihood of getting one if you buy a Land Rover then you do if you buy a Toyota. Also, you're going to hear about and remember the bad experiences more then the good ones. Especially here on a forum. These forums weren't as popular when the '00s came out so who knows what problems may have been posted.

Or, I'm just rationalizing in hopes that my car won't break down...

 

[aedgington]

Agree w/ CrusrDug. Most of what I've read have been bells & whistles issues. I think the manifold posts have actually been on the decline, and the starter posts have been on the rise, if anything.

 

[flyfish4life]

I would tend to agree that the later year model issues have not been mechanical for the most part - probably hear of more complaints on these just b/c of the very low volume of units sold in last couple of years. My only basis of comparision is to my wife's GX470 with 16K miles, which is rock solid to date, and the Sequoia I traded at 130K miles for the 100.

The Sequoia was just too damn big for my daily needs and was not near the build quality of the GX and now the LC. When I traded the SQ, I had already replaced both ex. manifolds, replaced rear axle seals, had numerous brake issues, could only ocasionally get it to engage in 4wd and the engine sounded like a diesel. LC is absolutely perfect size and has superior driving dynamics for a mid-large SUV and just feels like a well built vehicle. Definitely the kind of truck that you would want to keep forever if possible. I feel certain I will hang on to it long after the GX has seen its better days.

 

[a990dna]

There are several things that could potentially affect quality on a stable 10 year old platform:
1) design enhancements - low risk.
2) changing workforce - high risk.
3) product line consolidation - high risk.
4) expense control to maintain margins - med to high risk.

There will always be software problems to contend with...

It appears most of the problems I've experienced and compliants I've read here are more related to assembly issues... which leads me to believe they've consolidated lines or had a major change in skilled labor.

Maybe most of those older workers on the Land Crusier retired when Toyota assumed majority financial control of Araco.

 

[Jim_Chow]

There are several things that could potentially affect quality on a stable 10 year old platform:
1) design enhancements - low risk.
2) changing workforce - high risk.
3) product line consolidation - high risk.
4) expense control to maintain margins - med to high risk.

There will always be software problems to contend with...

It appears most of the problems I've experienced and compliants I've read here are more related to assembly issues... which leads me to believe they've consolidated lines or had a major change in skilled labor.

Maybe most of those older workers on the Land Crusier retired when Toyota assumed majority financial control of Araco.

I read an article in the japan times months back saying that Japan is starting to experience an experienced labor shortage as older workers retire. There are guys at toyota who have been working on the same product lines for 30 yrs. In LC mag, there's a LC 100/LX470/LC79 plant tour. Three of the managers shown have been working on the LC program well back into the 40 and 50-series days.

 

[SR.GRINGO]

One of things that made me ask this question is a family member purchased an 06 on my advise. Took a ride the other day the center arm rest leather has peeled off. When the brakes are being used there is a loud thump--I am a little dissapointed. This cruiser is only 6 months old--my 94 leather on the arm rest is in better shape. Here a cruiser is the same price as an LX in the states--they don't come with navigation or the vvti motor.


I have to admit I have been checking out the new mdx

 

[Jim_Chow]

One of things that made me ask this question is a family member purchased an 06 on my advise. Took a ride the other day the center arm rest leather has peeled off. When the brakes are being used there is a loud thump--I am a little dissapointed. This cruiser is only 6 months old--my 94 leather on the arm rest is in better shape. Here a cruiser is the same price as an LX in the states--they don't come with navigation or the vvti motor.


I have to admit I have been checking out the new mdx

This is the first time I've heard of the leather peeling on such a new vehicle. I know one guy w/ a '01 LC who has done nothing in terms of leather care and very minimal maintenance. The leather on his door is as hard as cardboard, but it was also parked in the California sun for 3 years! I'd get the dealer to replace it under warranty.

 

[aedgington]

That's crazy. It's peeling like it cracked and is peeling, or it's peeling like it wasn't securely fastened to the armrest?

Call the Araco labor union, tell them to extend their retirement age

 

[calamaridog]

I have a couple things to say.

I seriously doubt the quality of the later vehicles is significantly different than the earlier ones.

Most of the complaints have been silly stuff with only one serious problem.

The vehicles are produced on the same line, with the same tools, at the facility formerly known as ARACO but now known as TOYOTA AUTO BODY.

 

[Jim_Chow]

True, but is it produced by the same people? That's the $55K question. Is it by the 55 yr old guy with 30+ yrs LC experience with Araco or the 23-yr old who moved from the Corolla line to the LC line at the switchover in '05?

 

[SR.GRINGO]

The leather has rubbed off--it is intact but the grey on top has worn off. Also the speaker grill covers are coming off-- to me it looks like they are sourcing product from the corrolla parts bin.

 

[a990dna]

True, but is it produced by the same people? That's the $55K question. Is it by the 55 yr old guy with 30+ yrs LC experience with Araco or the 23-yr old who moved from the Corolla line to the LC line at the switchover in '05?

In a move to take full control over a contract manufacturer sometimes part of the deal is to offer a golden handshake to the existing workforce.

If older employees dedicated the lineage of the Land Cruiser were replaced by younger less dedicated workers that could make a difference in the fit and finish department -- like i said most of the problems seem to be assembly type issues causing squeaks and rattles.

I've yet to have a component fail -- the frame defect is an anomaly.

 

[83bj60]

the facility formerly known as ARACO but now known as TOYOTA AUTO BODY.

... and before that known as Arakawa Auto Body...

(just in case you didn't know)

Chris
'83 BJ60 Landcruiser, body by Arakawa...

 

[aedgington]

Sorry to hear about the leather, but I've always thought the grey leather did not stand up as well over time as the tan... but yours sounds like an extreme case.

I have no problem believing the new vehicles are not built as well because of changes at Araco, both in it's place in the corporate umbrella and because of retirees. Personally, if *I* were a bigwig, I would have pulled the remaining old timers off of the line to help with the 08 engineering and production processes before their knowledge base was lost. If that were the case, I would obviously replace them with newbies.

 

[flyfish4life]

Sorry to hear about the leather, but I've always thought the grey leather did not stand up as well over time as the tan... but yours sounds like an extreme case.

I have no problem believing the new vehicles are not built as well because of changes at Araco, both in it's place in the corporate umbrella and because of retirees. Personally, if *I* were a bigwig, I would have pulled the remaining old timers off of the line to help with the 08 engineering and production processes before their knowledge base was lost. If that were the case, I would obviously replace them with newbies.

Picked up the 2006 Consumer Reports SUV issue and looked at the reliability history for the LC from '98 thru '04. Although its recommended overall by CR, it does not exactly have stellar marks throughout the years that you would expect from the flagship vehicle. Lots of mixed scores throughout several categories such as electrical, drive system, exhaust, paint/trim, body integrity, body hardware and power equipment. With respect to the 2004 model, I did note that power equipment was solid black (worst), which may have been the NAV issue. Overall, kind of hard to argue that the 2005-2007 models are going to be any less trouble prone when all years seem to have recurring minor issues, most of which were under the Araco/old timers' watch. Engine, tranny and cooling had very high marks all years, which is my primary concern.

 

[aedgington]

True, but CR is something to read on mass-produced, mass-purchased items. Considering the low #'s of LC/LX bought, I would think talking to twenty owners would be far more accurate than opinion polls based on the few people who had problems that were annoyed enough to report them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's the case, but I can tell you that from working in the car business that talking to owners of low production vehicles (NSXs, BMW 8s, etc) is a much better indicator than talking to a service dept. That's just me, though, and my approach towards buying personal vehicles.