power steering mount - will it work?

i am about to the the Astro van power steering conversion. i picked up a box from the local junk yard, and it looks to me like it is the same (external) case as a normal Saginaw box, just with the pitman arm facing the opposite way. (of course, the internals are different to provide the reverse swing as well).

the Astro conversion requires mounting the box *behind* the front crossmember in the engine compartment, but otherwise it is similar to the normal, in-front-of-the-crossmember style.

so my question is: will the box mounting plates that most vendors offer work with the Astro steering box? i planned to just print out the dimensions of the plate from the Tech section and compare, but my printer is on the fritz.

also, most plate designs look the same, but Downey sells a different one (i think i read that it was an old Advance Adapters style). i read a few posts that say this mount is crap, but i also see that it is what proffitts uses and they are generally regarded as doing good work. thoughts?

here is the link to proffitt's: power steering plate

IIRC, there is no mounting plate for the Astro PS.
The Astro PS is similar to the Scout Saginaw PS.

You have to drill and sleeve the frame at the spot the Astro PS attatches to the frame.

That is the downey and advance adapter plate.
One of the guys in my club has one and it failed recently.

Here are some pics

Tigerstripe40 said:

The Astro PS is similar to the Scout Saginaw PS.

Click to expand...

the astro box installs on the inside of the frame rail, like the normal saginaw box. (the scout style box installs on the outside of the frame rail i believe).

here are some pictures of the astro box - i dont have a regular saginaw box on hand to compare to, but i think the cases are similar.

Tigerstripe40 said:

That is the downey and advance adapter plate.
One of the guys in my club has one and it failed recently.

Click to expand...

and oh yeah, thanks for the pics of the failed plate. doesnt look like too good of a situation to be in.

any idea on why proffitts uses that plate? maybe jeremiah is on here and can shed some light.

That pittman arm seems to point the wrong direction..

Looks like you would have to mount that box in the middle of the Driver side engine mount..

I cannot see how that would be a good thing.. I would think that you might need a Very long pittman arm if you wanted to move the axle forward at all.

Those mounts can be fine but you HAVE to know how to weld cast. If you do not know how to weld cast then you will get exactly what happened to Tiger's buddy...

Mace said:

That pittman arm seems to point the wrong direction..

Looks like you would have to mount that box in the middle of the Driver side engine mount..

I cannot see how that would be a good thing.. I would think that you might need a Very long pittman arm if you wanted to move the axle forward at all.

Those mounts can be fine but you HAVE to know how to weld cast. If you do not know how to weld cast then you will get exactly what happened to Tiger's buddy...

Click to expand...

the pitman arm points toward the front of the rig since the box mounts behind the front crossmember. (here is the link to the Tech write-up with some pictures - this is one of the only complete astro write-ups i have found on the internet).

the front of the box ends up being just about flush with the back of the front crossmember, so it clears the engine mount just fine (i am running a v8). currently, my axle is in the stock position and will most likely stay there as this is a daily driver (well, right now it is a daily-sit-in-my-garage).

but the question remains - is the external casing the same as a normal box? would any type of saginaw mount line up with this box's mounting holes?

Mace said:

Those mounts can be fine but you HAVE to know how to weld cast. If you do not know how to weld cast then you will get exactly what happened to Tiger's buddy...

Click to expand...

thanks for the advice.

the current downey catalog says that "casting is made from low carbon mild steel so that special welding rods and techniques are not required" - seems blatantly misleading to me, but i know next to nothing about metals or welding.

regardless, i dont plan to use that plate, just wondered about it. but if someone can verify that the astro box has the same external dimensions as the normal saginaw box, i might try to use a pre-fabbed mount plate (cruiseroutfitters, etc).

I have both an Astro box and a comercial box mount plate. I'll dig them out in the morning and see if they fit together.

Mace: I have installed an Astro box on an FJ40 with flipped front springs. When all was said and done the shaft where the pitman arm bolts to the box was centered over the front axle. Needed a slightly longer pitman arm than the Astro arm to make it work. The Astro arm, with the box centered, points about 15 degrees towards the drivers side of the truck. I cut the Astro arm up and made a custom arm about an inch longer and pointing straight ahead when the box was on center.

The box ends up in front of the motor mount but the steering shaft needs to go right through where the lower mount is (with a 2F). I don't have experience with V8 mounts to say if they are in the way or not. But if you can do a V8 conversion then you should have enough skill to deal with that IMHO.

HTH,
Nick

zebrabeefj40 said:

I have both an Astro box and a comercial box mount plate. I'll dig them out in the morning and see if they fit together.

Click to expand...

thanks nick!

I just did this conversion

I bought some 1/4" plates from Ragman after I saw a post that he had made about his Astro conversion. For $70 shipped, I got two beefy 1/4" plates drilled to the correct spacing pattern with the holes slightly larger than the supplied sleeves for good weld penetration. The outer plate is cut to go around the stock shock tower, but I cut a little more clearance in order to get the two lower holes inside the frame and fairly level. Mounting the box this high up also required me to change the pitman arm to a drop style which I got off of a Firebird.



He also cut the sleeves slightly longer than necessary in order to provide space inside the framerail where the box meets the plate since the box wouldn't mount flush otherwise.



Mounting the box this way did require me having to remove some metal from the radiator support (look at first pic) and to gind down a casting nub on the steering box.



I used the stock collapsible astro steering shaft. To mate this with the origianl LC steering shaft, I used some 3/4" ID pipe that I had laying around in the garage. The original shaft is slightly larger than 3/4", so I polished it enough to slip into the pipe extension so I could get a good weld. On the other end I used some 3/4" bar stock sleeved and welded onto a Chevy steering shaft end which fit into the Astro shaft. I still needed to clearance the V-8 motor mounts a little.







The pulley on the pump was one of the bigger PITA, since I originally got a double which didn't clear the box. Finding a smaller diameter single pulley was relatively easy, but it took 5 or 6 trips to Autozone to get the right sized fanbelt. I should have switched everything over to serpentine, but I was being lazy .



I have read many times how PS was the greatest mod made to other peoples cruisers, and I can testify now that it's true. I went wheeling recently after finishing the install, and it made wheeling so much nicer. In the past there were tight areas on the trails that looked like they would be fun to try, but I avoided them since it would take too much effort with 3 point turns etc. Now I can go wherever the truck can handle with ease and it made the day much more enjoyable. At GSMTR last year I had to let my buddy drive after two days since my elbows needed a rest! I hope this helps and good luck on the install.

Cruiser Clint said:

I hope this helps and good luck on the install.

Click to expand...

thanks a ton, clint! the pictures and descriptions are great. if nick determines that the standard mount plate wont fit the astro box, the it sounds like ragman is the way to go.

thanks again.

OK, I compared the Faultline Fab plate I have here to the Astro box. Looks like the box will fit standard Saginaw plates.

Nick

That's a good looking plate!

zebrabeefj40 said:

OK, I compared the Faultline Fab plate I have here to the Astro box. Looks like the box will fit standard Saginaw plates.

Nick

Click to expand...

thanks a ton!

i figured they would work, but you confirmed it. that will make the swap a little easier.

in the post above, the plate supplied by ragman had pipe sleeves to reinforce the frame, but most of the commercial saginaw plates dont have the pipe sleeves - do most folks run without them or do they just assume you will provide your own?

I sleeved the frame with pipe from Lowes. I have a mount on another Cruiser that was not sleeved. The frame is slowly collapsing as I retighten the bolts. It is soon to be swapped out for a different system so I haven't bothered to fix it.

The short answer: Sleeve the frame.

Nick

phishtaco said:

That's a good looking plate!

Click to expand...

It'll look better on your truck in a day or two.

sleeve the frame..

so I take it you have a V8 then...

Mace said:

sleeve the frame..

so I take it you have a V8 then...

Click to expand...

mattcrandle said:

the front of the box ends up being just about flush with the back of the front crossmember, so it clears the engine mount just fine (i am running a v8). currently, my axle is in the stock position and will most likely stay there as this is a daily driver (well, right now it is a daily-sit-in-my-garage).

Click to expand...

yup - running a v8. i will sleeve the frame for sure based on everyone's input, and now that i know that the standard saginaw plate will work, i just need to get one. didnt i see that orangefj45 was selling some in the Vendors section? anybody else got a recommendation, or are they all pretty much the same? i think i would prefer one with out the angled mount since the box will already be mounted at an angle because of the angle of the frame rails in that position.

thanks everyone for the help (as always).

Got a quick question. Are the pitman arms keyed to the output shaft or in some other way fixed so they fit the splined output in only one location, or can they be installed 180 degrees off from stock? My 71 currently has a manual sag box and am thinking ahead since I found that the local pick-a-part has a lot of Astro's in stock. Power steering is in the future, after I finish some of my other projects.

Typically with Saginaw steering gears, there are four wider alignment or indexing tabs on the pitman arm and steering gear output shaft, making it so that you can install the pitman arm in one of four locations. I have read on Pirate that people have ran into the indexing issue, and used a die grinder, and removed the wider indexing tab from the internal splines on the pitman arm, allowing it to be installed at many more locations other than the four originally permitted. I have not done this, but fail to see why it would not work.


Good luck!


-Steve