ignition parts

I have searched, but I have not found what I am looking for. I need to upgrade the ignition on my 73 40. I have a 78 2F and want to get a different dist, etc. I have seen the DUI and the HEI conversions as well as non-us dist options. What in your opinion is the best way to go?

If it helps, I am using this on moderate trails primarily in the rocks. Very little road use.

Thanks.

1st, I am confused, is the motor a 73 0r 78? is the dizzy a 73 or 78? if the motor and dizzy are both 78 than you already have a pretty good set up, 78 is electonic.

if your dizzy is a 73 then the cheapest and prolly a good improvment over the point is the Pertronix's set up, it replaces the points and basicly make your 73 dizzy an electonic dizzy. Cost less than $100

the non US dizzy is the same as a 66 and earlier US set up, it uses points still, but you can swap the pertonixs inside. If you want one of these I have one I would sell, its used and I have never run it, but it looks like its in fine shape.

IMOP prolly the best set up is a 81+ fj60(or fj40) fully electonic set up. You need to change the side plate on the motor so the larger cap will fit(or dent the plate) so you need...the dizzy, coil/ignitor and side plate, can get everything used for $100-150. This is what I am converting my fj45 to. Or you could go to the 78-80 electonic small cap which doesn't need the side cover.

the HEI or DUI(same basic thing AFAIK) doesn't float my boat, I keep hearing of problems of one kinda or another. I would stick to Toyota parts........but thats just my opinon

What are you trying to impove on I guess is the question?

I agree with the PIMP on most of this. Easy/cheapest way to go is a NON USA dist wih Pertronix inside, or just leave it with points. Your stock Dist is probly a vac retard which does not help with running strong at all The late 40 or 60 series dist that John mentioned is a grate set up but more involved in that you need to re run a few wires and change the lifter cover. It will give you the best, most waterproof set up avail stock. NAPA sells new 60 series dist for around $200 or used for around $100. With the NON USA you will need a non ported vac source to get it to advance correctly. The current vac port on the 73 carb will work but not as well. I am not a fan of HEI or DUI. Have heard many a bad story involving them.

David, seeing how someday soon I will be putting the fj60 dizzy and stuff on my 77 2f(in a 76 fj45 body) what extra wires do I need to mess with. I kinda thought it was a stright swap.

thanks
John

[quote author=dd113 link=board=1;threadid=12714;start=msg116915#msg116915 date=1078710300]
I agree with the PIMP on most of this. Easy/cheapest way to go is a NON USA dist wih Pertronix inside, or just leave it with points. Your stock Dist is probly a vac retard which does not help with running strong at all The late 40 or 60 series dist that John mentioned is a grate set up but more involved in that you need to re run a few wires and change the lifter cover. It will give you the best, most waterproof set up avail stock. NAPA sells new 60 series dist for around $200 or used for around $100. With the NON USA you will need a non ported vac source to get it to advance correctly. The current vac port on the 73 carb will work but not as well. I am not a fan of HEI or DUI. Have heard many a bad story involving them.
[/quote]

The engine is a 78. The dist is a 73. It is running very badly and since I am going to have to spend some money I might as well upgrade while I am at it. I want to stay toyota. The current carb is from a 76 and has a ported port. Why does the non-us dist. take non-ported vacuum? I thought the only way for the advance to work properly is for the port to be ported.

So I can get a 78-80 dist. with the full electronic set up? If I udnerstand correctly, the only difference between the 78-80 and 81+ is the cap size.

I am trying improve starting and pull throughout the engines range. I have very little spark right now, so I thought I would get rid of the vacuum retard dist and get better performance out of it.

[quote author=Landpimp link=board=1;threadid=12714;start=msg116927#msg116927 date=1078711334]
David, seeing how someday soon I will be putting the fj60 dizzy and stuff on my 77 2f(in a 76 fj45 body) what extra wires do I need to mess with. I kinda thought it was a stright swap.

thanks
John
[/quote]

The connectors are different and you bypass the ballast resistor and send the hot wire to the ignightor. it was really simple. Nothing to it

yeah OK, cool........thats what i thought when i looked at it(and the 60) a while back..........was afraid I had missed something.....thanks

[quote author=dd113 link=board=1;threadid=12714;start=msg116962#msg116962 date=1078714902]
The connectors are different and you bypass the ballast resistor and send the hot wire to the ignightor. it was really simple. Nothing to it
[/quote]

Well, my .02. I'm a big fan of the HEI. Biggest difference in performance I've done. I'm sure it would be better if I had the diz recurved specifically for the motor, but for my application, that's like picking fly sh!t out of pepper. Easy and quite rewarding.
But...you're getting good advice from some knowledgable guys.
GL
Ed

Just one more point of clarification.

If I get a 79 dist.
Can I use a regular coil for it?
Does it use the ballast resistor?

okay maybe two points.

Thanks again.

I think the 79 uses a coil/ignitor, so you do away with the ballast resitstor

[quote author=73lndcrsr link=board=1;threadid=12714;start=msg117412#msg117412 date=1078782073]
Just one more point of clarification.

If I get a 79 dist.
Can I use a regular coil for it?
Does it use the ballast resistor?

okay maybe two points.

Thanks again.

[/quote]

Degnol -

I was considering the HEI setup, and had a few questions for somone who had done it...

Did you get a used Chevy distributor, or one of the new / reworked ones (e.g. DUI, M-A-F)?

Any issues with the clamp? I thought the clamp installs in a different location/manner on the HEI and stock toyota engine.

Is the standard vacuum from a '74 sufficient for the HEI advance?

Can you get a Toyota Distributor Gear separatly? I hate to mess up my current distributor in case the HEI swap doesn't work out. (I know, I'm a chicken!)

What do you do with the extra wires? Just tie them off?

Thanks for the advice.

Rocky

PS. A similar thread states you won't get performance gain by upgrading the distributor, the reason it seems like it is because people tune up their rigs (carb & ignition) after making the swap. Anyone have any thoughts on this comment?

Did you get a used Chevy distributor, or one of the new / reworked ones (e.g. DUI, M-A-F)?

These are not "re-worked"...they are new units made by these people..

http://www.performancedistributors.com/toyotadui.htm

I have one in my truck, along with my 38mm Weber, and it is great. I have installed these in other Land Crusier F and 2F engines, and know others who are not on any of these forums, who have them, and have had them for a few years now, and not had any issues with them.


Any issues with the clamp? I thought the clamp installs in a different location/manner on the HEI and stock toyota engine.


The distributor clamp will install in one of the two threaded holes that you have in your block where the current calmp attaches, the only thing you will need is a longer bolt, no big deal...




Is the standard vacuum from a '74 sufficient for the HEI advance?


Will be fine, provided you have a source above the throttle plate/butterflies in the carb you are using...



Can you get a Toyota Distributor Gear separatly? I hate to mess up my current distributor in case the HEI swap doesn't work out. (I know, I'm a chicken!)

I am not 100% on this, but would say that yes they are available, since DUI uses a Toyota gear on thier distributors..'least that is what I was told by them..



What do you do with the extra wires? Just tie them off?


All you need is a switched, fused 12V going to the coil, everything else can be insulated, isolated and secured. I would not cut anything off or back, just in case you want to go back to what you had..

Thanks for the advice.

Rocky


You are welcome...



PS. A similar thread states you won't get performance gain by upgrading the distributor, the reason it seems like it is because people tune up their rigs (carb & ignition) after making the swap. Anyone have any thoughts on this comment?

There is truth to this. Many people do not know how, or want to spend the time learing, or want to spend the money on going through their existing system to optimize the potential that is there. Everyone is looking for a 'quick fix'. I had a Toyota vac. advance distributor, and still bring it with me when I go on outstate trips, just in case , but did not have a problem with it, just drove a similar Land Crusier to mine that had the DUI in it, and was very surprised by the difference, how ever it works, and since installing mine, have nothing but good things to say about it.


Good luck!

-Steve

Well, Poser about covered it. When I did my swap it was the only thing I changed and the difference was amazing.
I used the old Toyota hold down and had to make a bushing for it, which I'm not real happy with. It works, but I'll probably change to the GM style clamp. I don't know what Steve did with respect to timing, but the factory timing specs did not work for me or my conversion. I just seat-o-the-pants timed it.
You won't necessarily ruin the old diz by removing the gear. And with a new pin , Mine could be put back together.
Oh, and mine is from a junkyard, just benchtested it first and put a new cap and wires on it.
The "one wire" coming out of the diz is about 12 ga, and I probably should run a bigger wire.
GL
Ed

Seems to me that the roll pin in the Toyo gear/shaft was bigger than the pin in the GM. Anyway I had to redrill something to make it a little bigger, but I'm sure I could go back...still have the Toyo diz.
I also had to remove some metal from the GM to get it to seat completely. Not a huge amount, IIRC I did it with a bastard file, like a little lip or rim. Take some measurements from the old diz before removing the gear. Replacement is a little particular, as the vacuum port on the advance almost hits the oil filter on mine, might need to move it back a tooth, but so far, running well.
As I mentioned, mine was tuned up, new manifold gaskets, rebuilt carb, valves adjusted etc BEFORE I did the HEI and from the minute it was installed, I noticed a big improvement in starts and power all across the pedal.
GL
Ed

Thanks for the info.

I found an HEI distributor for $40 (can't find any of the $19.95 U-Pull-It junkyard specials!), but it looks clean and has everything.

I've seen some used 6cyl HEI distributors on EBay going for 50-75 (plus shipping!). Seems high, but it may just be the convenieice factor....

Rocky

Help!!!

I just swapped out my 69 distributor for a toyota electronic out of a 79 FJ40. In the old setup, the positive post of the coil went directly to the ignition switch. On the new setup I took the wire from the ignition that previously went to the coil and hooked to the positive of the green plug that comes off the ignitor.

I am getting no spark. Can someone help with the wiring aspect?

Ballast resistors and coils are matched pairs. If the coil came with a resistor, use it. If not, it doesn't use one. If you just remove the resistor, the coil will overheat and may fail. The resistor is there to improve starting in conjunction with the resistor bypass wire from the starter. This isn't as necessary in warm climates.

Edit:

Not sure what you mean by "upgrade", but if you are looking for a significant improvement in performance you are likely to be disappointed that you wasted your money. All a distributor does is provide a spark at the right time and if your distributor is in good shape, it is already doing this job. High energy, nigh voltage, high intensity, high performance, etc is all marketing hype. The performance difference you realize will be comparable to doing a tune up with a good factory distributor, since you have to tune it when you install a new distributor.

If you had a high performance engine (high compression, supercharged, RPM > 8,000, etc,) then you would need an ignition with performance to match, but putting a high performance distgributor on a 2F will accomplish as much as putting lipstick on a mule.

One will see a significant improvement if his reason for a swap is that the old distributor is worn out...worn shaft bushings will allow side to side movement of the rotor shaft.. or worn shaft cam lobes... resulting in what some folks refer to as "point bounce" or "dwell angle float" more noticeable at higher RPM levels, which can result in a engine misfire and poor performance..

All that is well and good, but I'm still not getting spark from the coil. Do I assume that the red wire from the ignition plugs into the positive half of the green connector coming off the ignitor, and the other half of that connector goes to ground?

Sorry... you need 12vs to the plug to the green plug with male looking spade terminal in it .. I think that wire is light brown in color... the other wire is for a tach hook-up.. yellow wire I believe... it is important the igniter has good ground...