Is the dealership trying to screw me??

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Liam

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Ok - here some history https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=135272

I took the truck into the dealship to get what code/s it was throwing. He tells me it is the TPS and i say ok, lets order it and be on our way. He then tells me that i also need to change out the entire throttle body or I will keep having the same problems..........he tells me that they have change 100's of these TPS's and they always come back if you dont change the throttle body too.....
the TB is $1400
the TPS is $80
I said why would i change the TB is there is it is throwing a TPS code only?/ He said there is an updated TB that you need to put in if you change the TPS....

WTF is going on here.....

are the F'ing with me is there any truth to what he is saying???
 
For $80 vs. $1400, I'd find out for myself. I'd do the $80 job, clean the TB, and see if the fix sticks.
 
Last edited:
It's a dealship. So ...... Yes they are trying to screw you.

Often the TPS and the APPS (accelerator pedal position sensor) both need replaced.

What year is your 100? (Add that to your sig line)

And also try the TPS/APPS thread in the FAQ.
 
In this case the dealer is correct. As long as your code is for the throttle position sensor and not the accelerator pedal position sensor; they are both located on the throttle body.

What is happening, is on some of the earlier model 100 series the grease that keeps all the gears lubed inside the throttle body and electric motor would seep into the TPS and contaminate it. So you could put just a tps in and may be OK for a bit ( a bit being the unknown, two weeks or two years). The updated throttle body has a better seal and a guide that does not allow the grease to get into the tps.

Ultimately you are the consumer and you have the choice as to how you want to repair it. The dealer wants to do it the right way and do it once. They really have your best interest in mind.
 
onesprung60 - this is an explanation for the TPS problem I hadn't heard before but sounds reasonable. How did you get this information ?

I haven't heard of anyone having both the TPS and APPS replaced and having a recurring problem.

Note - this thread has been added to the TPS/APPS FAQ thread
 
Do it yourself or order the parts and pay a few hours of labor.

Throttle body $762.37
TPS $61.27

Total $823.64, plus shipping.


If you talk to him again, ask him what year they fixed the TB.
 
QUESTION: I read the FAQ. It states that this is an issue with the 98-99? So have 2000 and newer TPS/TPPS failed? I ask because I might just replace both during my 2001 rebuild any how...starting in a week. ???
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
QUESTION: .............I might just replace both during my 2001 rebuild any how...starting in a week. ???
Click to expand...

WHY? Is yours playing up and throwing codes and CEL?
If not then I can help you get rid of that spare GRAND that you desperately want to get rid of!
 
100 TD said:
WHY? Is yours playing up and throwing codes and CEL?
If not then I can help you get rid of that spare GRAND that you desperately want to get rid of!
Click to expand...

Preventative. The TPS is cheap. What about the TPPS?

I'm gonna do starter contacts too (for no reason).
 
This is news to me too. When my APPS went, they said the TPS was ok and more accessible anyway if it needed replacement. The dealer cleaned the TB and I have had no other problems. Now I doubt their integrity completely and they did not seem to have much experience with this vehicle although they have been a Toyo dealer for about 30 years. (Maybe that is a good sign?)

If you can independently verify this fact, I recommend the expense, because it will hit you again later. OTOH you would think this would be one of the maintenance red flags, like the 90K service, that others would have experienced already.
 
ShottsUZJ100 said:
Preventative. The TPS is cheap. What about the TPPS?

I'm gonna do starter contacts too (for no reason).
Click to expand...

Starter contacts are preventative maintenance. As a matter of fact, why not just replace the whole starter? The throttle body can be cleaned up a bit when it's off, but I see no reason to replace it or the TPS unless you throw a code.
 
The thread title "Is the dealership trying to screw me?", is like being outside in the summer in a swamp and asking "Are the mosquitos trying to suck my blood?".

(Sorry, the title...the title...couldn't resist.)

The dealer has two motives:

1. To screw you and make more profit, by any means they can get away with.
2. To prevent unhappy customer returning because of further problems apparently related to repair work by dealer.

Replacing whole assy rather than just a component accomplishes both goals, in some cases. "Two birds with one stone" - Bravo!

For example: The local dealer told me they no longer replace only the starter contacts, but replace the whole starter assy only...for reason # 2. They did not mention reason # 1, but it is there too. (I replaced my own contacts)
 
onesprung60 said:
In this case the dealer is correct. As long as your code is for the throttle position sensor and not the accelerator pedal position sensor; they are both located on the throttle body.

What is happening, is on some of the earlier model 100 series the grease that keeps all the gears lubed inside the throttle body and electric motor would seep into the TPS and contaminate it. So you could put just a tps in and may be OK for a bit ( a bit being the unknown, two weeks or two years). The updated throttle body has a better seal and a guide that does not allow the grease to get into the tps.

Ultimately you are the consumer and you have the choice as to how you want to repair it. The dealer wants to do it the right way and do it once. They really have your best interest in mind.
Click to expand...

FTR - it is a 98 100

this makes a bit of sense. From what i gather from your post you vote to go with the TB and the TPS - I think in fact he said the new TB comes with the TPS. That is a hard pill to swallow $1400:eek: . I hear people say to clean the TB, is there a thread on doing this correctly?? when i changed out my starter i did clean any grease build up on all parts i was taking off.......is there a better way to clean.

also or the price of a new TB you could buy 20 TPS.........
 
Tinkerer said:
The thread title "Is the dealership trying to screw me?", is like being outside in the summer in a swamp and asking "Are the mosquitos trying to suck my blood?".

(Sorry, the title...the title...couldn't resist.)

The dealer has two motives:

1. To screw you and make more profit, by any means they can get away with.
2. To prevent unhappy customer returning because of further problems apparently related to repair work by dealer.

Replacing whole assy rather than just a component accomplishes both goals, in some cases. "Two birds with one stone" - Bravo!

For example: The local dealer told me they no longer replace only the starter contacts, but replace the whole starter assy only...for reason # 2. They did not mention reason # 1, but it is there too. (I replaced my own contacts)
Click to expand...
i would venture to guess changing out the entire starter is much less time consuming. Less time on one truck = more trucks they can work on in a day, which in turn ='s more cashola....
 
OK, here is the other side of the story. What most people don't know is that technicians work on flat rate. For example, gets paid 4 hours to R&R starter. If it takes them 2 good for the tech, if it takes them 6 bad for the tech.

So here is the scenario, you don't know anything about cars, but you have your truck towed in with starting issues, dealer is nice and decided to save you some money and R&R starter contacts. You save $200 on the job but next week your wife is stranded again due to the truck not starting. You are all pissed off and this time you insist the dealer tows in it on their expense and fix the mess they made last time. Catch is this time it is the solenoid that went bad due to the 150k miles on the truck. You don't know anything about cars, but you do know the dealer worked on the starter last so it must be their fault..

So what does the shop do, eat the cost, make the tech swap the starter on his own time, all this to make an irate customer happy because you threaten to tell everyone on your myspace friends list that this dealer sucks. This is not fiction, this does happen.

So, how do the dealer fix this problem. They replaced the starter with a reman from Toyota, because if that fails, they can turn to Toyota and ask them to cover the work to R&R it again.

Now replace starter with throttle body and you have Noah's case. Customer might perceive it as screwing them, dealer looks at it like good business practices. I am not defending them, just illustrating the other side of the coin. Now if all customers understood their trucks and were reasonable, we would not have this situation.

But if you knew your truck, then you would do the work yourself. That is why the dealer has a parts counter. So you can choose to save money and rebuild parts. If it works, great saved money, if it does not, you are out of your own time.

So the knowledgeable diy'er never goes to the service dept, making the problem even worse since the majority of people that visit the service dept are uninformed. They are the ones that shout, "You worked on it last, you fix it"

Case and point at the shop yesterday. Existing customer calls with truck with powersteering that makes noise. We get the truck, diagnose it and determine new pump and high pressure hose are needed. Quote the job, customer states he wants to save money and get a used pump or rebuild it.

Well, we won't guarantee either as a full solution. Used pump is obvious, reseal the pump will ensure it does not leak, but if the internals are worn they are still worn afterwards.

So customer now has diagnoses, then calls back in the afternoon that he can get the work done cheaper somewhere else for $200 less. Did ask what he owed for diagnosing the problem. We refused payment and told him his truck is ready to be picked up.

Could our estimate be considered "we are screwing the customer" because we wanted to replace with new parts and not install a $30 rebuilt kit and send the hose to a local shop to be repaired? Sure, by the customer.

Off soapbox.
 
sleeoffroad said:
OK, here is the other side of the story. What most people don't know is that technicians work on flat rate. For example, gets paid 4 hours to R&R starter. If it takes them 2 good for the tech, if it takes them 6 bad for the tech.

So here is the scenario, you don't know anything about cars, but you have your truck towed in with starting issues, dealer is nice and decided to save you some money and R&R starter contacts. You save $200 on the job but next week your wife is stranded again due to the truck not starting. You are all pissed off and this time you insist the dealer tows in it on their expense and fix the mess they made last time. Catch is this time it is the solenoid that went bad due to the 150k miles on the truck. You don't know anything about cars, but you do know the dealer worked on the starter last so it must be their fault..

So what does the shop do, eat the cost, make the tech swap the starter on his own time, all this to make an irate customer happy because you threaten to tell everyone on your myspace friends list that this dealer sucks. This is not fiction, this does happen.

So, how do the dealer fix this problem. They replaced the starter with a reman from Toyota, because if that fails, they can turn to Toyota and ask them to cover the work to R&R it again.

Now replace starter with throttle body and you have Noah's case. Customer might perceive it as screwing them, dealer looks at it like good business practices. I am not defending them, just illustrating the other side of the coin. Now if all customers understood their trucks and were reasonable, we would not have this situation.

But if you knew your truck, then you would do the work yourself. That is why the dealer has a parts counter. So you can choose to save money and rebuild parts. If it works, great saved money, if it does not, you are out of your own time.

So the knowledgeable diy'er never goes to the service dept, making the problem even worse since the majority of people that visit the service dept are uninformed. They are the ones that shout, "You worked on it last, you fix it"

Case and point at the shop yesterday. Existing customer calls with truck with powersteering that makes noise. We get the truck, diagnose it and determine new pump and high pressure hose are needed. Quote the job, customer states he wants to save money and get a used pump or rebuild it.

Well, we won't guarantee either as a full solution. Used pump is obvious, reseal the pump will ensure it does not leak, but if the internals are worn they are still worn afterwards.

So customer now has diagnoses, then calls back in the afternoon that he can get the work done cheaper somewhere else for $200 less. Did ask what he owed for diagnosing the problem. We refused payment and told him his truck is ready to be picked up.

Could our estimate be considered "we are screwing the customer" because we wanted to replace with new parts and not install a $30 rebuilt kit and send the hose to a local shop to be repaired? Sure, by the customer.

Off soapbox.
Click to expand...




always good to hear the other side. thanks for taking the time.
 
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