Stock Land Cruiser PTO shaft information needed. (1 Viewer)

[Living in the Past]

All the Toyota PTO shafts I've had and have seen have been matching course spline at both ends that one looks like its had a fine spline end fitted to it

That does look to be added. Mine are both course splines. Good eye.

I thought it was different it had fine splines but the US never got any PTO in any cruiser past the seventies. Past the mid seventies they were very rare as Toyota was having their dealers offer a Warn electric winch as a option. The one in the picture is from a Australia market HJ47RV with a 6/84 production date. Could be something done later but the welds look clean as others I've seen that are factory. I have at least six other driveline setups with coarse spline both ends. All were imported to the US and none newer than 1977.

Distance between the pillow block bearings is just under 26".

The shifter you have looks like the ones used on the one piece case. Replacing your transmission cover with a earlier one it will have a threaded hole for that shifter. Finding a earlier cover will be easier than finding the lock for it that mounts to the transmission hump.

 

[love2fly]

I was mainly corresponding to the PTO shaft design in the early days in the farming industry, military and such as mostly all PTO equipment used the same type of spline type ( count), then they started getting creative and it all started to changes in designs in spline and slip joints which was good.
The Toyota information is great in the fact that it accounts to why so many early FJs were found with Warn winch or Ramsey or others instead of a stock PTO. I know Canada, NZ, OZ, Europe, and South America had a lot of the PTOs just the big industries had a footing here in the USA as you mentioned.
Yeah the slip yoke is different compared to others I have seen. Again, things change and there must of been some reason. Push rod looks a bit bent. Boy you have the collection of shifters and the first one resembles what I will have. It looks to have a solid push rod as in what I am thinking of doing with mine, just engineer around the cable idea which it too complicated and costly. The shafts bearing hangers are most definitely off a few inches but can be cut and welded if you are putting it in a newer LC.
Thanks


PM sent

 

[Living in the Past]

Good to know, I was wondering why it was different on one end, and I am still wondering.
Can one you give me the shaft diameter - inch or mm and also the spline count.

I seen it mentioned about the collar attached to the PTO being different. For the record the longer splined collar was used on the winch end in early years but was the coarse spline. The fine spline is just over 1 1/8" thick. count is 27. Any diagram I've found really doesn't show if it's changed to fine spline in the later years. Could have been changed as I no other late drivelines to compare it too. Doesn't matter as I have no plans changing it and will use it as is.

I was looking at item in the for sale section that had a link to eBay. That auction had a link to Ramsey PTO winch for the 40 which lead to links for Toyota winches and PTOs. All I can say it prices people are asking is crazy.

 

[love2fly]

That's good, if the shaft is around 1 1/8 I am sure I can find something close. In the long run I may have to change everything anyway to build the shafts and hanger bearings so I guess it will make no real difference. I still will see if I can find a 6 - 7 HD coarse spline end when building. I still need to match the coarse end at the winch end as it has the stock yoke with the shear pin attached.
I believe I did see what you are referring to on eBay and agree they must think it's gold. I will always try to pay a fair price on used parts but sometimes I will not even offer at crazy prices.
Well I guess I should mention that the split case gearbox arrived today in the post and it looks as if it is in super shape. This means I can now start the clock on this build. I believe all it needs is the rubber boot on the link are but that should be no problem. A little paint on the light rust areas and a internal cleaning and we should be ready to mount.
I glad it showed up I wanted to get the stock yoke measurements to see what I can start matching up to that's on the market.
Living in the past you can scratch the request for the lever mount measurements I think I have the lay out in my head now from the pictures you
guys have posted.

Okay here we go.

Thanks

 

[love2fly]

Okay I did forget to ask when installing the G/B is there any little points of interest one should know before and during installation?
I know to add the gear oil, new seal or gasket maker, bolts from cap look as they should be long enough for the G /B install.
Anything about the gear in the transfer box, any possible problems with that (see photo).

Thanks


My transfer with the cover off showing the drive gears.

 

[sadam_husain]

5 days from the other side of the world to the US by general surface mail is unheard of that thing must have been on the first flight out of the country

You've probably got that PTO bolted onto the side of the transfer case by now and found that the 2 left hand bolts are pretty tight and fiddly to get in

If you're going to use non Toyota shafts and adapt them to fit try and modify as little as possible to get things to fit it always pays off in the long run when it comes to maintenance and repairs, my fj40 uses a landcruiser pto adapted to a Nissan patrol winch and a combination of different pto shafts joined together to get around the 3" exhaust, modified cross member and chevy engine mounts and it means I've had to get a lot of duplicate pieces machined up and fabricated as spare parts, my fj75 uses all standard winch and pto shafts and any spares are readily available and bolt straight in without having to machine and modify or re-invent anything.

if you cant find a yoke to bolt onto the PTO G/B flange you could make up an adaptor plate similar to how you do a bellhousing to gearbox adaptor to bolt onto the flange and clock 45° to re-drill for the John Deere or whatever other flange you have on the PTO shaft, sorry for the crude pic but I'm sure you'll get the idea and be able to machine up something prettier looking

When it comes to the winch end of the shaft you want to try and get the shaft as straight dead on to the winch as you can get it, when the shaft attaches to the winch on an angle they tend to increase the rate that the coupling flogs out on the shaft with the continual lateral movement and force, when the coupling flogs out and becomes loose it puts more stress and load on the shear pin



Having said to modify as little as possible if you can use a different coupling onto the winch it'll save you a lot of headaches with broken shear pins, the Toyota couplings use a 4mm shear pin which is significantly under rated for the winch load capability and fails easily, unfortunately the coupling doesn't have enough meat left to drill it out any larger, some people have successfully managed to weld collars onto the end of the coupling so they can drill them out to a larger shear pin or sometimes use a spare yoke from a PTO shaft and machine the centre out to fit the winch shaft and drill that out for a larger shear pin, my Nissan winch uses a 8mm shear pin as opposed to Toyotas 4mm, my winch uses an identical wormgear and bronze wheel as Toyota use they are so similar that I'm pretty sure you could probably get away with swapping them over between winches so you could say both winches are basically identical strength. I've only ever broken one 8mm shear pin when I first got the truck 5 years ago and it gets put through a number of our local winch comps and tough truck comps out here without destroying the winch, you do get to read the winch and can feel and hear the loading and treat the winch accordingly when its working and working hard

coupling on the left is the Nissan patrol 8mm pin and right is the Toyota 4mm pin that cant successfully be drilled out without welding a collar to it

this winch we did in the pics below, the fj40 that went up before me with a standard 4mm shear pin (he uses 4mm high tensile masonry nails) went through 3 or 4 pins winching up and we ended up winching him up with another truck, I think he sheared around a dozen pins that weekend he ended up running out of spares, the 8mm pin I was using is the same one I've been using for the past 5 years

 

[peteinjp]

Before you fill the box with oil change out the drain plug to an allen wrench style plug. They sit low (in a 40) and can get snagged/bashed up.

Pete

 

[love2fly]

Thanks Pete I believe I will see if the dealer has one in stock.
Would you have reference to a part number for that if not I can fine it on the web. Type of truck or?
Good information, thanks again.

 

[Living in the Past]

Not sure if the plug is the same but I used these on my FJ62. Still haven't installed all of them but the FJ62 is at another location so can't find the part number on the bag. I would try a search in the 60 section using "allen plug".

Couple of questions for Pete. Are you running the factory skid plate? Also not sure of you year but have you ever seen a fine spline driveline like the one I pictured?

I've been doing a little searching on parts. It looks like some of this might still be available but the housing for the pillow block bearing is not. The mounting brackets might be but are around $40 apiece. Shafts are at least a couple hundred dollars each but shipping from out of the country. Just because I find a price it still might not be available. Can't believe if it's available your looking at over $1K. I also did a search again on eBay. All I can say is prices are insane. Years ago I bought a PTO winch off a FJ55. Since I didn't own a FJ55 I wasn't concerned about the bracket that mounted to the frame. All I did was look to see if it had the extension for the front frame rails which were welded on and get the lock for the shifter. The winch was already pulled by the wrecking yard. I paid $200 for the setup. Those days are long gone. I get messages all the time asking for PTO parts. While it looks like I'm hoarding I have probably double the number of cruisers I could use them on. Like most everybody else I searching myself for parts to complete a setup. At one time you could get a Ramsey PTO winch for next to nothing. The drive would be a good start. One of my FJ25s has Toyota PTO (transmission mounted) driving a Ramsey winch. Really shouldn't be that are. Not sure you even need the second pillow block bearing. Not sure why they changed to a second one with the 83 models. Only thing I can think of that is when a five speed became a option.

Did a search of 60 series PTO winches for sale because I remember a few being for sale. This one was in the Pacific Northwest and shows the drivelines which use a different style bracket. The price makes you wish you had time machine that could take you back just a couple of years. https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/complete-factory-fj60-pto-winch-with-bumper.749757/

Edit: you might see if you can contact this guy as I see other PTO shafts in the pictures.

 

[love2fly]

That link makes me cry, in 2013 that was a honest price he was asking, now- yeah what ever.
I will look under the FJ60 parts listing for that plug.
The process on the linkage to G/B has started and will post soon info and pictures soon.

 

[Living in the Past]

That link makes me cry, in 2013 that was a honest price he was asking, now- yeah what ever.
I will look under the FJ60 parts listing for that plug.
The process on the linkage to G/B has started and will post soon info and pictures soon.

Personally I think he was under market value for two years ago. The issue with a PTO winch you need to find someone local as shipping a lot of times kills a deal but with the current prices maybe not. Wasn't too many years ago there was a brand new PTO setup for a early 40 series on eBay. Seller wanted $1,700.00 which was considered a lot of money to pay when once mounted and no longer new in the crate the value would drop. Now I see the one with a cable on eBay is priced at $1,700.00 just for the winch and it's not even in that good of shape. I have a Downey catalog from 1974. Believe a brand new PTO winch complete was priced at $440. But if I could go back in time I would go back to the early sixties and buy a ton of tool kits. Easier to transport back and clean kits are going for $1K today.

I did do a check and the flange pattern on the early and late Toyota PTO drivelines is the same.

 

[jmphilion]

Just for extra info, if another is in need of the info, this is my second box.
here is a pto box setup on a 1972-73 floor three speed.

JM

 

[love2fly]

That is simplicity. Thanks for that I would think someone can use this information other than me. I believe I am going with a simple link set up as the cable one is way to costly. You information on that type is good to see as I never saw or knew where it went in the truck.
I will be posting my start in a day or two. Just loaded Windows 10 and having some problems.
Was the a gent on the Mud site making and selling the PTO floor lockouts. I am about to make one out of a blank weld-able door hinge but if one is available would be much faster.
Thanks

 

[Living in the Past]

Just for extra info, if another is in need of the info, this is my second box.
here is a pto box setup on a 1972-73 floor three speed.

JM

View attachment 1119409

You picture shows the offset in the rod going from the shifter to the PTO. When I switched from three to four speed I used one of shifting rods from a early FJ40 high/low shifter. I cut the rod down to the size needed and threaded for the end that attaches to the shifter. The other end on both the PTO shifter and high low shifter are tampered down to a smaller size and match each other. Picture also shows how the special stud the lever pivots off of is long enough for a second shifter. Parts diagrams show a second lever for a second PTO that mounts to the end of the transmission. Last thing as mention before switching the top cover with a earlier would be the simplest way to mount the lever on the post 8/80 four speed transmission. The top on the later cover is cast for the threaded hole so guess you could try to drill and tap but I personally would replace the top.

That is simplicity. Thanks for that I would think someone can use this information other than me. I believe I am going with a simple link set up as the cable one is way to costly. You information on that type is good to see as I never saw or knew where it went in the truck.
I will be posting my start in a day or two. Just loaded Windows 10 and having some problems.
Was the a gent on the Mud site making and selling the PTO floor lockouts. I am about to make one out of a blank weld-able door hinge but if one is available would be much faster.
Thanks

I think you would find shifting a problem with the lever on the front of PTO. That bracket bolts to the PTO using the top mounting bolts is needed to keep the cable stiff. With just he bracket to the frame I bet it would flex too much.

Hope Window 10 is better than 8. I like my Windows seven but that computer is old and really slow and needs some work which I haven't a clue about.

 

[love2fly]

Windows 10 is more designed around the APP type of thing found on most cell phones now a days. I say now a days lightly as I am sure tomorrow things will change to something else. Just went back to Windows 7 seems so much better than 10, some things just would not work, and the app thing just looks to cheap. I think the worst part is Microsoft has made it a lot more un secure as in your location information, who you email and were you are on the web a few other things. You can choose to turn some of the things off but the program was designed to work around this kind of information.

Well the complete shifter is complete and will be installed tomorrow then we start the drive line build from the G/B forward.
The cable thing is out and went with simple. Pictures will be posted later, wanted original but it seems like simple just was the way to go, so thanks for the information on that and someone will be interested in the working of that also.
I was looking at the servicing for the transfer with oil level, and when read it says THE OIL LEVEL IS SATIFATORY IF THE TRANFER OIL IS UP TO THE FILL HOLE LEVEL. Are you not supposed to add oil when the PTO G/B is installed and up to the shown line of the filler hole.
I am going to run it down to the lube in a box store as its around 103 degs and worth the cost for the service, GL-4 (90w)
I came across a posting were a gent was working on the rear angle spacers for the winch, I have made my own spacers but curious if the back side measurements of 15mm high is correct or is just centering the yoke in the hole of the front frame with what ever one gets to keep it in-line of the hole, 15mm or ?

Thanks

 

[jmphilion]

I will keep in mind the transmission cover swap if ever i get to install it to a 4 speed. The three speed seemed so small.. But never compaired them both. Having the lever there is a lot more simple and neat to cut the floor and to install for sure. Having screw heads on that hump is not comfortable for the foot.

I never quite descided what to do on my side.. I have a gb from a 1980 pre 8/80 bj40, a gb from a 73 and i drive an 82 with a splitcase.. So my gb dont fit on my 4 speed, but i kept the old 4 speed of the 1980 to swap if i never find a newer box.

As for the spacer, i can check tomorrow, but i would go custom to center it. The winch spacer seems to level the winch and compensates for that crease in the frame.

 

[love2fly]

Got home a bit early so I am sitting down with my favorite beverage and posting the lever to G/B creation pictures.
Okay with this out of the way I can now focus on the driveline part of this so I will most likely asking a lot more question soon.
For the linkage it was simple and is very effective and smooth in its operation. As the one picture shows I took a piece of steel and cut it to the shape of one of the mount plates I saw from one of the guys here on mud. Used the lever that was sent to me. I put a 90 degree bent on the top lip where it seats across the top side of the trans top. Used the two trans holes and bought longer 10mm bolts and a spacer for the low end of the top.
Leveled the steel plate and cut the spacer installed the bolts, set the lever where it would be the best and were the linkage would be straight across from the end of the shift lever to the G/B lever. I cut a 5/16 rod and threaded it for the proper throw with a bit to spare and is adjustable.
Found the two clevis yokes at the a auto parts store put it all together and set it up were when in the forward position it will be in neutral and pulled back is engaged. Cut a piece of rubber for the shift cutout opening and glued to the floor, made two holes the size of the lever shaft and cut the center with a blade for it travel back and forth- in-out. Did the same with the stock floor mat so later on I can devise some kind of cover and floor lock. The s*** is smooth, strong and no binding. now to fill the G/B unless otherwise from post.

 

[love2fly]

MOR PIC

 

[Living in the Past]

I will keep in mind the transmission cover swap if ever i get to install it to a 4 speed. The three speed seemed so small.. But never compaired them both. Having the lever there is a lot more simple and neat to cut the floor and to install for sure. Having screw heads on that hump is not comfortable for the foot.

I never quite descided what to do on my side.. I have a gb from a 1980 pre 8/80 bj40, a gb from a 73 and i drive an 82 with a splitcase.. So my gb dont fit on my 4 speed, but i kept the old 4 speed of the 1980 to swap if i never find a newer box.

As for the spacer, i can check tomorrow, but i would go custom to center it. The winch spacer seems to level the winch and compensates for that crease in the frame.

Not sure what your talking about bolt heads on the hump. The housing for the cable setup bolt to the inside of the frame rail. Not sure why it was pictured early in the thread inside the cab. I personally like the late style with the button lock. No lock require on the hump. Which allows more options seal it. A leather boot like the transfer case or one similar to the transmission could be used.

I'm not 100% sure that all H41/H42 transmission covers can interchange. I know my 82 H4 & 84 H41 have the boss for the PTO shifter just flat with no threaded hole.

I have to admit gb confuses me. Some people refer to their transmission as a gb (gear box)in thread is seems to refer to the PTO unit. I always us transmission or PTO to be sure people know what I' referring to. When you say your gb (PTO) doesn't fit your four speed transmission are you talking about the later 82. Mid 63 to 7/80 the PTO should fit on all transfer cases used during those years. Just need to have the correct PTO for inside the transfer case. Three speeds and some four speeds had a ten spline tailshaft. All fours speed imported to North America pre 7/80 had a sixteen spline tailshaft. There is a different three speed used from 61 until mid 63. It used different PTO and had different shifter setup. Have pictures of that setup on another computer.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Love2fly,

Nice job on the install.