Stock Land Cruiser PTO shaft information needed.

[jmphilion]

Ahh thats good to know.. I never had the chance to see those. Makes sense.

I like the flange picture on the fender, theses fenders are so usefull
I cant count the number of pictures i've seen on a fender

 

[Living in the Past]

The smaller wedges usually go MIA. I've had my first PTO for over thirty yearsand removed and installed a few times. Never had any issue with either the nut or bolt. I do have a few of the smaller wedges. I also got the two spacers that were installed on the HJ47 to raise the back to match the roobar on the front. Not stock but appeared it worked. But it is really hard to say for sure a the accident damaged the back angle iron and cast pieces on the winch heavily.

 

[love2fly]

I was going to ask about those spacers, so glad you said something.
Learn something every day.
Not to worry about that I believe I am going to go with a blank yoke, that way others who may want to give this a try themselves will have some part numbers to go by. I just need to make sure that all the parts I us are compatible to each other (shaft. u joints).
Thanks

 

[love2fly]

Possible good news on the flange yoke part - found a Spicer part number that is bolt circle diameter correct. Has a large pilot hole but usable.
Most all the measurements seem to fit the criteria.
Part number is Spicer 2-2-01474 (1330 series).
I am now looking into making sure that the a splined slip yoke (trans) is available in the 1330 series to be used with a suitable sized shaft spine and 1330 series end yokes for the shaft run.
If someone when they have the time, would compare the part number specifications with an original PTO flange yoke to see if there may be some possible discrepancies or concerns, that would help before ordering the part.
The Spicer web page is the best to view on this part.

http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p2542_dana_spicer_2_2_01474_flange_yoke_1330_series_.html

View attachment 1122157

 

[love2fly]

Sorry I forgot to mention for you folks that may attempt this PTO shaft build for yourselves.
On the shaft spines, in the back of my mind I kept thinking that Toyota seems to use some of their part designs in other areas on the Land Cruiser, then I remembered the transmission input spline was the same as the PTO spline, ten spilled and about 27mm diameter. I found one of many old plastic alignment spline tools you get with some clutch kits, and yes perfect match. This will come in handy for the gent that I will have cut the shaft for the winch end to use as his template and matching trans yoke shafts for the shaft coming from the PTO G/B.
In the picture you can see the splines are a bit cut on the plastic, that was due to some rust inside the yoke.

Update:
I was asked what the PN was of the plastic centering tool was - it is PN 5326 fits 69-87 Toyota Land Cruiser.

 

[Living in the Past]

• I suggest test fitting the transmission input shaft before building a PTO shaft. I tried one of those clutch tools I have and was too large to fit. I tried a collar on the input splines on a early three speed and FJ25 four speed. It wouldn't fit on either. I have a few 74-80 four speeds stored away. I'll check when it's not over a hundred degrees. My later four speeds and later three speed I have loose are stored in another location . Might need it machined down a little first.While not a sloopy fit it's not a tight one either.

 

[sadam_husain]

On the shaft spines, in the back of my mind I kept thinking that Toyota seems to use some of their part designs in other areas on the Land Cruiser,

yeah good point its very common for Toyota to use the same parts, sizes, splines, U/J's etc etc across their whole vehicle range not just across Landcruisers

 

[Living in the Past]

Check the transmission input shaft before making any shaft. Forgot I have a 78 parts transmission in the garage. Tried three different splined collars and none fit the input shaft. Besides input shaft Ring from the early ring and pinion as well as the early coarse spline axles use the same design.

 

[love2fly]

Gave it a go on a 1979 4 speed tranny that is in my friends shop, worked well was not a sloppy fit or tight. Was a bit hard at first being the inside of the slip yoke splines are a bit rusty.
The ID of this yoke is 1.049" or 26.64mm, I doubt they changed the tooling just for a PTO shaft but I am not an expert. I don't know?
The 10 spline if made or I use a tranny input spline is for the winch end yoke that I have already. I will most likely be welding a spline that is different from stock like what you have on one of your driveline, if I can find it in around 1" - 1" 1/8 size.
Haven't looked yet.
Anyone checked the dimensions of that flange yoke that I found with what you have in comparison. It maybe a bit wider in the body overlapping the G/B flange just by a little be I not sure. I can match the u joints with the rest of the build if it is a good candidate.

 

[jmphilion]

I dont understand what you need, i dont understand why you want to compare since you have the G/B flange handy. If it goes on there, the rest is all custom fit with parts,..

Plus i have an older G/B than you now have.. So it might not be the same.

Do you mean the winch yoke with the security pin hole?
This is the only part i dont have.

 

[love2fly]

That's okay I was just interested in the dimensions of a stock flange yokes bearing carrier size but I bet it is the same as the yoke I have now. They are pretty small U joints and @ 20mm diameter and from snap ring to snap ring about 66mm across. I am just comparing with European part I have found, PTI is one.
No problem.
Thanks

 

[love2fly]

Ball Park -May change:
Alright then, I have decided to put aside the search for the obscure 3" bolt circle size flange yoke and tomorrow will start on the building of the flange adapter plate to install a 1000 series Neapco brand 10-2-29 flange yoke (2 3/4" bolt circle).
I will be running a 1.25" size round solid shaft with the input at the G/B end slip yoke (squared) milled down to 1" to accommodate the yoke with a 1.000" drive square that will be attached to the flange yoke. Meaning a 1-2 foot 1" square shaft will be running the show from the PTO gear box.
If I did my research correctly I can run the PTO @ 1200 rpm @ max load 3350 lbs. with the 1" shaft drive and 1.25 inclined shafts with that 5 foot run.
Off the bat, I do not remember what the yokes are rated at but I am sure the 1000 series will be fine as they are sated to be used will PTO systems.
From there the run is about 5 feet to the winch head with two hangar bearings in the line to accommodate the 1.25" round shaft that will have four end yokes (2 pairs) inline just before the 1st hangar and after the 2nd hangar near the winch end.
The 1.25 shaft will be milled down at the winch end to the original input slip yoke with the 10 spline, so might as well use it.
Re rest is nut and bolts and hangar bearings, welding, and some bucks.
When I get this refined and started I will post the parts used and photos.
I have not checked the amount of degree angle the yokes are made for, but I do not see the angles being more that 15 degrees if that if I get a straight run.
The 1000 series is the smallest yokes and flanges I could come up with, but if any one out there has a more smaller size I am open to change.

 

[jmphilion]

That's okay I was just interested in the dimensions of a stock flange yokes bearing carrier size but I bet it is the same as the yoke I have now. They are pretty small U joints and @ 20mm diameter and from snap ring to snap ring about 66mm across. I am just comparing with European part I have found, PTI is one.
No problem.
Thanks

I had a little time to check, but the yoke mesurements you have make sense. The yoke flange it self is about 73 mm wide, the bearing carrier from the outside is from 19.6 to 19.8 mm in diameter (in the condition it is at in the picture) .

In my previous mesurements, i had a yoke that was 61.6 mm wide and 10.8 mm in diameter, but that is without the bearing on the yoke.

I did not take the yoke appart to mesure because i trully dont remember how to and time was running, later i would be ok to check.

The splines on the flange interior are 27.4 mm across in the deepest, 23.4 across at the highest point and are about 4.7 mm wide.

Hope this helps, if not too late.

J

 

[love2fly]

Never too late, still refining the flange yoke bolt circle. Got my hands back on the yoke to check the bolt circle again and believe that being it is a mm size I found that a flange made by PTI series 1200, part number 1202-29 with a measurement of 2.980 (75.69mm) fits the Toyotas flange almost right on. So with that said I now am postponing the adapter plate and looking into the use of this found PTI part. I have not had time to find out if any other manufactures that make the 1200 yoke series in spline, round or square yoke end will fit or interchange and the u joint bearing kits for it as well.
If correct, if you measure diagonally across on your flange from center of hole to center of the other you should have about 75mm.
The center pilot is a bit to big and can be shaved off with a bench grinder to accommodate the flat surface of the face of the yokes..
The set up would be the same as in the last post but now with new P/Ns and parts.

See:
powertrain industries 1202-29

on the web site.

 

[jmphilion]

Yes, its 75mm

 

[love2fly]

Work is making things a bit slow. Defiantly still working this project but may of had a stroke of luck but not sure.
A gentleman emailed me yesterday saying that he has a complete 1977 FJ40 winch drive shaft that he wants to sell that is still on the rig. The rig has no winch and he does not want one. Well not knowing what the shaft configuration is like for a 1977 compared to a 1982 can anyone school me on the differences. I mean are the shaft length mainly the same ( around 5 foot), are the flange yokes the same (75mm) and the hanger bearings 1 or 2 and do they mount on the side of the frame or under the radiator as some of the older ones. If similar to an 82 maybe worth modifying.
I did find a flange yoke and end yoke compete used at SOR for $130 plus shipping, the complete shaft this guy has is half that price and has whatever is attached to a 1977 shaft.
The only comparisons I have are below.
Thanks guys.

 

[Living in the Past]

I did a mock up of my 84 PTO driveline on my 82 frame. The front U joint is off a earlier PTO (splines fit prefect) since either the one from the 84 got damaged in the accident or my guess the guy at the junkyard destroyed it removing the PTO and driveline.

77 would have the pillow block attached to the radiator mount. Before finding the 84 setup I had thought of adding another radiator to line up with the hole in the frame member. Never did a mock up so not sure how the holes in the front frame member being offset would have worked. May have needed to enlarge one or both the holes.

 

[love2fly]

Excellent photos and a big help.
I was afraid that the 77 model had that radiator mount instead of the forward side frame mount.
I have not seen the photos of the driveline condition form this 77 that were promised to be sent a day ago but from what I believed it has only one hangar, Hummm, not sure how to plan that one.
If it is primarily the same length, would you think one could modify it to maybe resemble your mock up in the pictures with two fab aftermarket center bearing coming off the frame. I will have to check Mud site to see if anyone has a PTO posting with a radiator mount setup.

Sorry, what is the stand off in inches at the first hanger bearing from center of shaft to inside the frame. Also is that shaft 1.5 inches in diameter and total length.
Thanks for the information and pictures.

 

[Living in the Past]

Your biggest problem with the 77 setup is the front shaft will be to short and need be lengthened. Plus on the pre 79 the end by the pillow block is a flange not a U joint end. Not sure if a flange would have clearance issues that close to the frame making a later style setup.

Not sure what you looking for. Distance from the middle of the center shaft to frame is just over two inches. My mounting brackets need to be straightened and that could be off a little. You can see the shaft going thru the front frame member is too far to the middle. Middle shaft center point of the two U joints is right at 25 1/2". Front shaft from center of the U joint to the end of the splined end is 15". Shafts measures 1.1" In the second picture you can see the tie rod of early axle I have rolled under the frame. It's about one inch and would think it would work for PTO drive shafts. But that's probably just me as I try to reuse what I already have.

 

[love2fly]

You know that ever bit of information you and I and others give, not just to this PTO set post but anything these old rigs need is like gold.
I am still anticipating on making the complete driveline assembly since I have not heard back from the guy who was wanting to sell the shaft, all this information is giving me more insight to what will work or not.
I was considering that short shaft in the front as you mentioned but I believe I can overcome that if I get the 77 shaft.
As for the build if all goes to plan - I am now sitting down and making a my decision on what series assembly yokes I will use if built. I plan on using round cold rolled steel for my slip yoke at the gearbox, cheaper that having splines cut.
There, as I am learning, that in order to build a driveline system first we need have to know the basic on how it is going to be used, and in this case "yeah" a PTO driveline. Now I need to consider the gearbox ratios, torques and shaft leanth and max RPM speeds under max load. Some of these I am guessing on.
We primarily have series from 1000-1900 or more series to choose from but the higher the series number the bigger the assembly and u joint will be.
Most PTO (farm and small pumps) run with a 1000 or smaller series from what I have found, but taking with a few companies reps like PTI who makes and sells yokes, flanges, u joint and such strongly suggest that I stay within the 1210 and 1310 series (the 10 being mostly in the automotive class) for durability due to the obvious use of a winch.
I do not want to use a big nasty looking flange yoke on the companion flange or an adapter plate, I an trying to keep it as close to standards as possible in size and simplicity. So I am leaning towards the 1210 series in the 1. flange yoke 2. u joint 3. end yoke. I will say that the 1200 series is a bit limited in size especially in the 75mm flange yoke bolt circle pattern but with a bit of slight modifications that I will put in detail later, it should all work out.

The plan:
1210 flange yoke from the gearbox (75mm bolt circle)
1210 yoke end with a 1.25" round hole with 1/4 key way shaft
Four foot of solid round cold roll 1.25 O.D. to be used for driveline in sections
Four end yokes for angle areas (2) with 1.25 round opening for shaft (welded)
Two 2.25 I.D. automotive Midship center bearing (hangar) for the shaft run
Construction of the mounts for the bearings (semi enclosed for protection)
Nut and the bolts and the cash.

That's the basics for now, all that information you guys have sent me in pictures and written info is now brain chatter 24/7 in the back of my brain being computed.

Thanks