My New Front Arms (1 Viewer)

[Tools R Us]

I made a quick page with a few pictures of the new arms.

http://copperstatecruisers.org/tech/80_series_arms.htm

 

[Brian Macgyver]

Kids, the pics don't begin to do it justice! I have built suspensions with Kevin for too many years, and he has done well. His design and geometry are superior.
Like me, he is more likely to teach you to weld than to find time to build something for you himself. ("Teach a man to fish"...) But if enough of you need it you may be able to persuade him.
This set-up is simple and very effective.

 

[FirstToy]

Tools,
That is really interesting (in a + way) I guess I missed all the stuff between you and LCPhill but it looks like something really nice came out of it

 

[MaddBaggins]

I saw these as there were in production. Nothing weak about them. I'm impressed.
Speaking of "teach a man to fish", I bought my welder from Kevin.

Nice job dude!! Now I need to work on my 3 link...

 

[FJBen]

Very cool man!!!! awesome work as usual!

 

[clarkrw3]

Great work Kevin!!! I want to see these in action. I saw these when unfinished and they are VERY beefy. I just want to know when you are making mine

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Tool,
So did you beef up the axle side brackets as well?? also how much caster correction did you account for in your design? or is it stillthe stock negth and radius?
Sorry lots of questions on a monday morning.

 

[bjowett]

Very nice!

I'd like to hear how it reacts in an emergency maneuver.. maybe find a big empty parking lot and start throwing it around? Asymmetrical handling is not popular with me.

Excellent to hear about you raising the track bar off of the axle. So many folks simply add a drop bracket to the frame and have no clue as to how it changes the roll characteristics of the vehicle. I've been guilty of that in the past...

 

[green_machine]

I went behind him on a run, and they work well. be better yet if you loose that sway bar off road.

The work was flawless.


j

 

[Tools R Us]

Tool,
So did you beef up the axle side brackets as well?? also how much caster correction did you account for in your design? or is it stillthe stock negth and radius?
Sorry lots of questions on a monday morning.

I haven't beefed the brackets yet, it was high on the list until I saw how the new arms work. In my thinking the biggest stress on the brackets were them acting as flex limit stops, the leverage of the stock arms jamming into the brackets had to put huge stress on them. The arms don't hit the brackets anymore, so the stress has been greatly reduced? The plan is to tie the rear of the brackets into the new shock mounts for the 7100s, the front bracket will be tied into the new panhard bracket.

I didn't plan or calculate the caster, the arms are setup with a 0 degree pinion angle for a CV driveshaft, that added about 6 degrees to the caster, it drives well so I have no plans to have the caster measured.

 

[Tools R Us]

Very nice!

I'd like to hear how it reacts in an emergency maneuver.. maybe find a big empty parking lot and start throwing it around? Asymmetrical handling is not popular with me.

Agreed, I was about 2 days away from the road trip to Moab that included crossing several mountain ranges. So the test drive was aggressive, stepping up to full blown 80 MPH emergency stops, with some done in curves, it handles well just some unique body movement.

Excellent to hear about you raising the track bar off of the axle. So many folks simply add a drop bracket to the frame and have no clue as to how it changes the roll characteristics of the vehicle. I've been guilty of that in the past...

I'm looking forward to seeing how raising them will affect the handling.

 

[Nay]

Just out of curiosity...why did you choose this route over a four link that uses rear arm bushings? It would have flexed better without the need for a 3 link. It clearly took some serious fab skills to build those arms...the four link would have been a lot less complicated. Just a couple of upper mounts and some DOM.

I'm not criticizing as it looks like nice work...although I would beef up the single mount for safety reasons...just curious why fabricators would continue to mess with the stock arm design?

Nay

 

[green_machine]

I'm not criticizing as it looks like nice work...although I would beef up the single mount for safety reasons...just curious why fabricators would continue to mess with the stock arm design?

Nay

Because, it is awesome for ranching, but sucks hind teet for balanced suspension travel in extreme conditions.

I will be attacking this same problem from the frame side soon.

j

 

[Tools R Us]

Great work Kevin!!! I want to see these in action. I saw these when unfinished and they are VERY beefy. I just want to know when you are making mine

Way too much work to make them to sell!

Looked at a couple of ways of making them with less labor: Could cut them from 1.25" flat stock and bore the bushing holes on the mill, kind of a cheap and dirty way, flat stock is not as strong per pound as a structural shape like the stock I beam. Looking at having them cast, one of my good customers is a steel foundry. I don't have much faith in that, they measure pours in tons, so I doubt that I can talk them into casting just a few. Casting would be cool, they could be made in just about any shape, something like the Snake Racing arms.

 

[colsoncj]

It may be an naive question, but couldnt one just take and cut the front part of a stock arm off to achieve practically the same results?

 

[Land Speeder]

Where is your junk currently? looking to steal these....

 

[concretejungle]

It may be an naive question, but couldnt one just take and cut the front part of a stock arm off to achieve practically the same results?

kindof, yea.

 

[-Spike-]

It may be an naive question, but couldnt one just take and cut the front part of a stock arm off to achieve practically the same results?

If you don't care about caster angles, yeah.

-Spike

 

[colsoncj]

If you don't care about caster angles, yeah.

-Spike

Could you elaborate more? From my understanding, when he made the arms, he took the opportunity to go ahead and correct a pre-existing caster issue, I'm assuming from the lift. Now if you assume you dont have a pre-existing condition, would the simple removal of one front eye and bushing achieve the same results and net you the exact caster you had to begin with? I guess I'm trying to see how removing the one eye and bushing would change your caster.

 

[Ebag333]

It may be an naive question, but couldnt one just take and cut the front part of a stock arm off to achieve practically the same results?

Could you elaborate more? From my understanding, when he made the arms, he took the opportunity to go ahead and correct a pre-existing caster issue, I'm assuming from the lift. Now if you assume you dont have a pre-existing condition, would the simple removal of one front eye and bushing achieve the same results and net you the exact caster you had to begin with? I guess I'm trying to see how removing the one eye and bushing would change your caster.

A simpler (and less drastic) solution for those looking for more flex, without going through the cost of custom arms is simply to replace the front bolt on the drivers side arm with a hitch pin.

This allows you to keep less flex for the road, but pull it to give that extra couple inches of flex on the trail.

I've run with this setup on a couple of trails. It doesn't really add much travel (maybe 4-5 inches) but it definitely feels more supple.

As was mentioned this will not address caster issues.