Front end rebuild cost

[k4azy]

Hi All, this is my first post here but I've been lurking for a couple months. Sorry if this a bit long-winded but it's been a bit of a saga.

Two weeks ago I bought my first LC. Based on information and suggestions I found here and on other sites I was looking for a '97 FZJ80 or LX450. It took a while but I came across a used dealership in my neck of the woods that had a 40th Anniversary that was in very good shape cosmetically and appeared to be mechanically sound. The mileage was high at 230K but having owned an '87 and a '93 4Runner in the past, I trusted that I'd still get 50 - 70K miles out of the engine and drive train before I had to reinvest. I didn't put any money into it but did a straight trade with the dealer for an '05 VW Passat. My car was worth about 9K and the dealer was asking about 9K for the LC. I saw it as a win-win even though he made out better on paper.

I briefly tried out the 4lo and the locking f/r diffs on the gravel lot and gave the vehicle a good once-over (based on the useful info here). The minute I took it home I put it in grass, locked the center diff and went a few hundred yards. When I unlocked and put it back on the driveway I immediately noticed that it didn't feel right and made a very loud clicking noise when turning. Of course, I turned to ih8mud and found that the problem is likely worn birfield joints so I took it back to the dealer the next day. He had his mechanic look at it and then told me it's fine and nothing to worry about.

I took the truck to Toyota yesterday and had them look at it. Here's their assessment:

Tech found front end has alot of worn out parts which include both front axles and front diff. There's a lot of play. Inner seals worn out also which has caused diff oil to mix with the axle grease and contaminate it. Recommend replacing front axles, front wheel bearings, all front end seals and gaskets and front diff due to excessive play. Initial estimate is roughly $4713.68

Of course, I'll insist the dealer make it right either using his mechanic or one I find but here are some questions I wanted to put to you guys --

- How overpriced is Toyota's estimate for the work they recommend?

- Do I really need a new diff. Shouldn't it be possible to rebuild what I have with new gears, seals and gaskets? Would that be cheaper than replacing it?

- In the spirit of not letting a disaster go to waste, what sort of mods should I consider at this point? Higher gear ratio for larger tires? Any sense in getting heavy duty birfs?

- I got a quote from Happy Jap's in Cary, NC for stock birf replacement (no quote on diff replacement/rebuild yet). Parts and labor come to ~$1650 which seems on par with what I've read here in the forums. Any locals have opinions on the work they do? I'm not sure I trust the dealer's mechanic since he let it go to the lot in that condition in the first place.

Thanks!

 

[mkfour]

The diff is probably fine. Just needs a front axle job.

IIRC, DIY birf job is roughly $300-$500 in parts, including wheel bearings, new rotors, pads, seals. But this is without the cost of new birfs.

If you can start the birf teardown, inspect the axles/birf for wear. If they are worn, then you can replace them.

 

[krzyabncanuck]

Why not have one of us ONSC cruiser guys check it out for you. Plenty of guys on here from where you live could give it a good once over for you .

I can even help you out if you wanted.

And for that price they wanted i could buy a whole nuther cruiser.

 

[CruiseOrlando]

Other things to do while you're in there: brakes and rotors, brake lines, diff breather extensions/check. Replace hub studs, washers and nuts, and cone washers.

 

[tmorris1076]

That sucks. Think I saw the TLC if it came from dealer on Capital Blvd. hope u r able to get it sorted...

 

[CycloSteve]

100% agree with the above sentiment that the dealer is trying to sell you on much more than you need. Very, very unlikely that the front locker is damaged whatsoever. Bearings, birfs, rotors, pads, brake lines, miscellaneous nuts and bolts and a lot of grease and you will be fine. Cut the Toyota dealer estimate in half at least. Grease migration is no biggie, and clicking is likely just worn birfs.

You can use their figures to get some compensation from the dealer you traded with, but in the end use the third party mechanic, or take up some local assistance offered above and get elbow deep in your new rig.



Steve

 

[kidglove13]

I would try to enlist the help and experience of some the Old North State Cruiser guys.

They are a good group of guys and I am sure that someone would help you out.

As said above I doubt the diff is bad.

OEM toyota birfs are very expensive I think that 2 will cost you like $600-700 for both IIRC

Redoing the front end, excluding birfs will run you about $400 +/- in parts only without rotors is what I spent on OEM toyota parts ie. wheel bearings, trunion bearings, all seals and wipers, new hub/drive flange stubs and other misc crap you will need etc.

 

[k4azy]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Right now I'm definitely feeling like I sold the family cow for some magic beans. I think the interior is about as perfect as a 15yo truck's could be and I wouldn't feel like I got taken for a ride if it was mechanically sound. Posting some pics here. Underneath the floor liners the carpet is immaculate.

My first-best scenario here is to get 3 - 4K back from the dealer and make it a DIY hobby. second-best is to get 3 - 4K back and take it to a reputable, knowledgable 3rd party. I'm decided that I'm not going to let his mechanic at it again.

krzyabncanuck, I appreciate your offer and I'd gladly take you up. I'm curious how much time it would take for a complete noob, though? Even with some assistance I'm imagining more than a weekend. The wife and I need two kid-hauling daily drivers. Anyone's thoughts on that are appreciated.

Also, thanks for the tip on ONSC!

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[kidglove13]

If you enlisted one or two of the Old North State Cruiser guys to help for beers and food I bet you could easily get it done in a weekend with others that have experience in doing it.

Plus you will learn alot by doing this.

The job is not really all that difficult it is just tedious and messy.

Plus there are some really good write ups in the FAQ section which walks you through the job.

I would not let their mechanic touch that truck

 

[k4azy]

Oh, to give more details on what it feels like... There's no chirping from the front tires when I turn the wheel. I'm pretty confident the center diff isn't stuck. Anything over parking lot speeds everything feels great. When I turn the wheel hard right or left (parking or u-turn for instance) there's a loud, repetitive clicking sound from the hub. It sounds like the inner-diameter hub makes the noise whether I turn left or right. I also hear it when I reverse and turn out of a parking space. Hopefully that confirms the consensus opinion that it's the birfs.

Also, the birfs quoted to me by Happy Jap's are $560 a piece. They told me there's a range of parts but they quoted me the most expensive. I'll follow up with them and see where they're sourcing them from.

 

[kidglove13]

It is definitely the birfs, they need to be replaced

 

[WFCruiser]

I just had Canucks Cruisers rebuild my front axle on 94 FZJ80. I highly recommend you get with him.
I don't have the tools or the space in my garage to complete these jobs. He turned me on to oil/air separator from JEGS. Full tune up etc.

He did an incredible job getting my vehicle based lined.

 

[js93cruiser]

A 97 with 230000 for 9k? Wow

 

[angerhater]

for 9k...I would make the dealer fix it all...with warranty....or get some money back.....

 

[chap79]

I just helped a fellow mud member rebuild his front axle over the weekend, I can be done in a day by yourself if your experienced. Get some local members to help you out.

 

[Rwhat]

I did a fellow mudders with his help. We did the complete front axle including seperateing the birfs and all new bearings. No rotors or brakes. However we separated the rotors from hub to do the bearings.

I did it for a 12 pack and lunch. It took us about 10 hours. About 70% of it is cleaning stuff up.
The best part about it was he got to see how it's done and all the associated parts. Plus he was a cool guy and I got to save him a lot of money.

 

[krzyabncanuck]

Stock birfields are expensive, but you can put others in from vendors on here for much cheaper. If you are driving this thing i would not think the third is messed up.

Sounds to me like you kust need the front end serviced . That would include replacing the birfs and doing the brake rotors and such on the outer ends. While you are in there i would recommend putting all new bearings in there , just to know you baselined it from the get go.

 

[Mtbcoach]

Just to chime in from another ONSC member...

I've helped others in our club doing knuckle rebuilds at HAMOM's (Help A Member of the Month) and am in the process of doing my first job on my own. Without the expertise of fellow members, learning, watching gave me the confidence to take it on myself.

I highly recommend Darin for looking at your rig, he is very skilled with Landcruisers and I'm sure many other vehicles if he chose to work on them. Just in case, for another reference (closer) I'd consider is East Coast Gear Supply in Raleigh instead of the shop you mentioned above. Chase is the owner and has developed a very good reputation for his expertise in gears, axles and the like. He will have a kit on the shelf for local pick up or do the job for you if your not willing to take it on yet. He will also give you a fair assessment of your issues, I'd trust his opinion since he deals with off-road specific axle issues everyday.

If you have any questions I can help, shoot me a PM...

 

[CruiseOrlando]

As already said, the job isn't really hard - the worst part is cleaning all the parts off and cleaning up after the job is done. It's a freaking mess.

If you have an experienced helper, plan for one really, really long day or two reasonably long days.

With the clicking, you can swap the birfs and probably be fine. That does mean separating the axel from the birf, which is a kinda tricky thing to do, but not impossible. There are a ton of threads on doing all of this all over this forum. If you can find someone to help you out, that's your best bet. An experienced mudder will do a better job than the dealer ever will, basically because they care.

 

[CruiseOrlando]

Oh yeah, if you look in my build thread, I have a time-lapse video of the rebuild job you can watch to see what it's all about. I did mine on my own without help just by reading on mud. It went fine, but I learned a lot about time-saving steps after doing it myself for the 2nd time I did it with another mudder on his truck.